Hello, i'm just dropping in to catch up on your personal thread and to let you know that I will be supporting you and SF's recovery, both personal and martial!

You're doing great, keep up the good work!

Strivn4Better: thank you very much! rfwihd1

MrJK: Thanks for the response and the support-please stay in touch, It really helps!

The struggle kinda hit the wall today. It has been nonstop angry outbursts, one way POJA's -I have to POJA's but not the other way around-constant evaluations of mental illness-whatever comes up on a thread always "fits me like a glove"-constant comments of how much she hates me and that she is only staying for the kids and finances-constant threats to have the locks changed and that I am out- constant rteminders of what I did--judgements--constant statements intended to humiliate me-"after all its the truth". She feels she "so beyond me"-that I'm retarded-and that it is time for me to go"--

Any suggestions?

I've been focused on Sunflower because that's where my experience is.

Here's the thing, you've shown her for 10 years that you are what you are - and all of a sudden you want to be different.

You've trained her reflexes as much as she's trained you to not be considerate of her.

So...

Love her.

Be more patient with her than you think you can.

When she gives you the latest armchair diagnosis, don't play into an all-inclusive-symptom list and demonstrate exactly that you fit that diagnosis.

Demonstrate that you don't react the same way as you used to.

How is your spiritual recovery program?

Are you working with a priest or a minister of some sort?

Or a sponsor who can hold you accountable for any mystical mind-reading you might be trying to do with your wife instead of communicating?

This is a tough thing to do - but it's work you MUST do because even if your marriage doesn't recover, you will create the same relationship again unless you are truly changed - since the opportunity to save the marriage and yourself is here, do all you can with it!

You can do this!

Thank you KaylaAndy: Patience,consideration,kindness,understanding,protection,Love.........I can do this...I will do this! Thanks for very helpful response. rfwihd1

RFWIHD - One of the things that totally changed my mind about TST was that his change of heart was thorough - when his wife was angry, he responded with kindness. When he found out about her excursion outside of their marriage, he didn't blame her, he looked inward and took responsibility.

In other words he had no investment in being right anymore. He took a lie detector test. He signed a postnup that was financial surrender - he surrendered ALL of it.

While I'm sure his personality didn't change all at once, had he spent much time in the blame zone or defensive zone, I would NEVER had believed his recovery was sincere.

Some excellent reading would be TST's original thread- you can find it by clicking on his name then clicking on the posts link and go to the last and second-to-last pages of that list - you'll see a pretty good map to what Sunflower needs from you.

KA-
THANK YOU for your advise to my H. it has made all the difference.

somehow, maybe i dont express the words in a meaningful way or my H doesnt want to hear the words from me- but he seems to let the words sink in that come from you and others on his board.

your impact and words are helping the change that is happening in our M- and keeping us from giving up.

sf

I have re-read your message several times. Today I look at my spouse and I wish I was able to hold her, hug her... love her. You say -"be more patient than you think you can....love her". My heart and soul is overwhelmed with sorrow and guilt and remorse for the pain and agony I am still selfishly putting her through. Over the last 24 hours I exhibited anger, ridicule,demeaning statements, leveled blame and became testy. I allowed myself to get distracted (I played a video game with my son-instead of helping to prepare dinner-I NEVER PLAY VIDEO GAMES)I failed to protect SF- I failed to protect SF from me.
It was a minor holiday for us today which meant I wasd out and about in the community-while I was thinking protection for my wife-I was also thinking about me-how embarassed I was-feeling bad for me because of my disgraceful behavior. I know this is selfish on my part-so now I am angry and disgusted with myself for all the things I have done wrong;for acting in ways that I now know are LOVE BUSTERS. Once again I am really struggling. Please...I need advise and wisdom. I have to do better than this. thanks.

KaylaAndy....And I am reading tst's early thread. Thanks. rfwihd1

I always like how simply Dr. Harley puts things, "Neither you nor your wife married to to hurt each other. Yet if you are not careful, you can become the greatest source of each other's unhappiness. And if you don't make a special effort to protect each other from your own selfish instincts and habits, it's inevitable."

Again,,,, Protection & Care! IT IS A CHOICE!

Make the choice to protect your wife often enough and long enough and it will become a habit. Remember, IT IS A PROCESS!

Habit; Behavior patterns that become automatic and almost effortless when repeated often enough.


Dr. Harley again says it best, this time refering to care, "Almost invariably, wayward spouses explain that they still care about the betrayed spouse. But if that's how they act when they care, I'd hate to see how they act when they don't care.
What these people really mean is that they are somewhat concerned about their tormented spouse and hope that he or she will somehow be happy in life. Yet they are unwilling to do anything to make that person happy. In fact they are unwilling to stop doing what makes him or her miserable."

Protection and Care! Requires repeated special effort....

Be careful of discouragement for it is your soul's enemy's greatest weapon.

First - eliminate sins of "commission" - those sins you "do and say and think".

Then work to eliminate sins of "omission" - those sins of neglect.

Addiction takes you off the track of maturity. So start there.

Early stage of development means patience with yourself too.

As an adult, if you had just had a stroke that wiped out your ability to walk or run, which even a child can do, would you ridicule yourself or beat yourself up for not instantly getting up to walk? And now you're expecting yourself to dance with your wife at the level you see other adults waltzing around life doing?

Begin with where you are. And be glad to be here now instead of another year from now - a year's more damage... it's been stopped.

So you're here now. I would suggest, if TST is open to it, that he be your recovery sponsor.

The twelve step program provides a framework for inventorying a number of things - first - HOW you are powerless over your life and how it has become unmanageable, then a complete moral inventory - all of it - done by you and to you... there are other elements of the 12 step program that will also help you.

Work with a therapist and work on one maturity skill at a time. And make sure you do one thing minimum a day that stretches you - not just to refrain from harming Sunflower, but to build her up. Pause before you act - make sure it comes from a "Sunflower Focus" rather than a RFWIHD focus! One simple kindness every day that makes a difference. A hot chocolate at bed time, or a load of laundry start to finish - nothing showy that would bring you attention, but rather, to express a quiet, calm love!

tst: SF asked me tonight if I EVER loved her as you say i do-then
how could I have worn the wedding ban and did what I did.-nothing said was acceptable as nothing really is.....Sometime
after DDay I had shared with SF that just prior to engaging in my disgusting behavior I remember taking off a religous garment I would wear for the sole purpose......"that you may see it and remember all the commandments of G-D and perform them; and not explore after your heart and after your eyes after which you stray"..... I would say this prayer and wear this garment and remove this garment with some sick, tormented anger.How and why could ever engage in such behavior? I angonize over this still to this very moment... even though I have repented and begged for forgiveness and vowed never to engage in any such behavior again! I have sworn to very rigid, specific boundaries NEVER to be crossed again! SF looks at me with tears in her eyes and says ...how....how could you? She says...."And now you want to offer me protection and care"?... "I can't undo what I did.".say I with love and care and patience and tears in my heart...."I promise that you will never know such pain like that ever again"!...."its just words" says she..."its just words"....."its just words"...
I stayed patient...I stayed loving and caring and protective ...and hopeful...I do not want to loose her.I am frightened. I do not want to loose her.... Advise, please.

Your wife is trying hard to process all the feelings that come with adultery. She has all this stuff inside and is searching for a way to work through it so that ONE DAY she will be PAST it.

That ONE DAY is far, far away. For a typical infidelity situation, it could take the BS 2-5 years to recover...be "past" it. Your situation is not typical. You have lied for so many years.

tst's affair was 9 months. He was a loving husband and father for 19 years prior to the affair. We never raised our voices to each other or said hurtful, disrepectful words to each other, until his affair, then he was wicked. We were affectionate with each other, enjoyed daily conversations, and had much laughter in our marriage.

We are now at about the 1 1/2 year mark of recovery, and I still crash emotionally. I still cannot GRASP that my husband did this. I still bounce from shock and grief, and at times anger.

But tst has NEVER ONCE in these 17 months responded to me in the insensitive, hurtful way that you have responded to Sunflower. He has NEVER ONCE asked, "what about me?" He has NEVER ONCE complained about any LBs I delivered or me not meeting his ENs.

Why not?

Because his goal is to HEAL MY HEART, not RECOVER our marriage. His DESIRE is to recover our marriage, but his purpose in life is to HEAL ME.

When your focus truly becomes doing whatever it takes TO HEAL THE HEART THAT YOU SHREDDED, your actions will CONSISTENTLY demonstrate the love you claim to have for Sunflower.

Right now, your focus is on your marriage, about getting what YOU want...a recovered marriage.

You must reach a place where you will do WHATEVER it takes to HEAL HER, and that you will do it passionately and enthusiastically...regardless of how she responds to it.

You're still looking at what you are getting in return. I do this, and then she LBs me. OF COURSE, she does. You need to EXPECT LBs and demonstrate love back to her EVERY TIME. When you don't you PROVE that you are not willing to repair her heart.

She MUST work through all her BS emotions. And part of that is going to be LBing because those emotions will consume her very soul at times. She will feel like the agony is going to literally kill her, that she cannot survive the pain. It IS that intense for her.

When you GET THAT, you will stop thinking about how intense it is for you, because you will so desperately desire to help her THROUGH what is consuming her.

When I asked my wife to reconcile, I had come to the point where I had ceased fighting every thing and evey one. I had totally surrendered. When I surrendered, I stopped defending myelf. I had never done this before in my entire life. I had ALWAYS rationalized and justified things either inwardly or outwardly in the past. I felt entitled to defend myself, even when I knew I was wrong.

When I offered no excuses, offered no justifications, offered everyting she asked of me, I believe she was in utter shock. But that is what total surrender is. I just stopped defending myself. That is one of the main reasons we have been able to restore our marriage.


SF is triggering often and with a fury. I'm sure it's hard, but you already know the reason she is triggering is because of your MA's. You need to surrender to God and cease fighting and defending yourself when you are together.


What a paradox, the only way for you to win is to surrender!


With time, SF's triggers and fury will diminish. But only if she feels safe and secure in the belief that you understand what you have done to her. She will only belive this if it is a genuine and sincere surrender. Trust me, she will know the difference and so will you.

I read your post-in fact I have read it many times-I read tst's post and read some of SF's most recent posts to you and to others-
tonight I feel like I took 2 steps forward and 6 steps back. Tonlght I feel like i'm loosing the struggle-
Talk to you tommorrow-

Exactly what struggle do you feel you are loosing??

KaylaAndy suggested amongst other things to "work to eliminate sins of "omission" - those sins of neglect"

I'd suggest that you might want to bump this one up on the priority list.

When SF specifically asks for something as she did when she asked you to read a couple of posts you must make it a priority to satisfy those requests.

This is known as caring.

You exhibit care for SF when you respond to the things that are so important to her that she makes a specific request for you to do something. When this happens you need to attend to it as soon as you can possibly can because what you are really doing is showing her that you care about her emotional needs enough to get out of your normal comfort zone.

Changing this one small aspect of yourself will go a long ways in the eyes of SF.

SMB: I read your post over many times; I have a very long commute to work so I read it and re-read it over & over on the train taking notes because your words hit home and I believe I can grow from your advise if I move forward with that information in a sincere and honest effort. Yes, SF is dealing with a non-typical infidelity situation and I did lie to her for so many years; I was and have been disrespectful, insensitive and self-centered and I have complained about love busters from her to me- because I am saying-"hey, what about me?"---That "me" is exactly the "me" I want to leave behind-so that I can emerge as a new man- a man with new goals and purpose in life-a man who truly wants to help heal his wife's pain, a man who wants to heal his wife's heart!
I am taking steps forward everyday in this evolution of change. The road is dark,filled with debris and pot holes which I keep falling into-holes which I keep climbing out of as well. Right now, my CONSISTENCY is falling in those holes because my focus continues to be selfishly misguided. I need to get to a place where I can see those potholes ahead of time and avoid them so that I can better use my time helping to heal SF.Each day there is greater understanding and appreciation for this process as I remain open to learn a new way of life and living that unfortunately does not come naturally to me;I must work hard to change. So I am learning this change from SF and you and others and I am determined to be successful in this change so that I become the man SF has always wanted.
Your words describing what SF must do: "she must work through all her emotions. And part of that is going to be LBing because those emotions will consume her very soul at times. She will feel like the agony is going to literally kill her, that she cannot survive the pain.It is that intense for her". My G-d, these words are stuck in my head and they bring me tears each time I read it or think about it. I feel those words!
In my thoughts and in my heart I get it-but putting those thoughts and feelings into action so that it is felt and or recognized by SF is something completly different. I must become that man, where through my actions she will feel safe and secure. I so want to be at that place....not for me...but for SF!
Thank you so very much for your heartfelt insights and guidance-you are a resourse of hope!

I want you to get, but I am not convinced that you do...

because....





If you did get, there would be no "but".

Your heart would be turned to SF and you would respond in a way that demonstrates where your heart is.


So you come here and say you get it. Yet after reading my post you still did not respond in a way that demonstrates love when SF directly asked you NOT to put her on hold. It was a rather simple request.

But you did anyway. She was opening her heart and giving you the opportunity to heal a bit of it. Eventually, if you do not start responding to her in a caring way, she will stop opening her heart, and you will no longer have opportunities to repair any damage you caused.

tst actually CAME HOME from work on those days that I was falling apart. So, from my perspective, the fact that you couldn't even let a call go to voicemail while you helped SF feel safe, tells me you DO NOT get it. You blew her off--demonstrating exactly WHAT???? Not love, not care, not protection. It demonstrated the EXACT opposite.

There will come a time when SF has no patience left, no willingness to risk opening her heart. It will be closed to you. You CAN STOP that from happening. I hope you WILL get it before it's too late. She is dealing with more than most BS's here would be willing to accept. Do you realize how remarkable that is? Don't take that for granted. A wife can only take so much.