This is very difficult for me as I told my h the 2nd night into "you CANT lie to me", I felt like I was wide open to pain and wanted it all to deal with. I thought nothing would be crueler than to begin to heal then find out other things, and have to start over again. Well, that's just what happened. It's been about 10 weeks and I would ask him questions like did it happen in our car? No. Then later the admission. There had to be at least a half dozen of these, the most recent was Sat night when he told me yes he did have phone conversations from our home, when he first denied this.<P>When the lies first came out we dealt with in with the counselor, who suggested he write down what happened and we could discuss it then. He agreed to put all the cards on the table. Well now its a few weeks later and there were lies in THAT letter. I just can't take this. At one point I really believed he understood how the lying was another form of infidelity. Now I don't know what to think.<P>Please tell me, is this a normal process for the betrayer. Why he would lie to me over a stupid phone call when he told me all about the horrible sex stuff??<P>Despite all this, he is really working at this, he is remorsefull, always asking what he could do for me, etc. He is sincere in his desire for the marriage and I believe he wont be satisfied at returning to status quo. He has expressed his desire to not only come out of this, but to come out of this as a radically changed man. In some ways he has already.<P>I know I should be focusing on all the positives here and there are lots, Its just I havn't decided on what to do in my marriage. And when I found out the lies, I realize I loose whatever trust (I amazingly) had in what he told me. It makes it so much harder and he realizes that now. He has said that he will tell me things as he recalls them. It was a while ago and he was never the detail kind of guy. He also said he witheld stuff, and he doesn't understande why.<P>NOW he says it's different. He has decided to go on with his God and walk with him. Hopefully with me but if not he will still walk with him. I am envious of that place because I am not near there yet. I haven't even begun the forgiveness process, I feel like my relationship with God is like a giant block. I know I need to go to him and seek him and I think I have in some ways but I don't have that close walk I once did. Honestly, my relationship with God hasn't been like that for years. I've been beyond dry...But I will continue to seek him.<P>The only reason I am still here is I am waiting to hear from God clearly. This is all too important to go alone. I need to know I will be in His will for me and my children.<P>Any advise guys and is this normal?<P>

Crushed,<BR>My H told me he only lied about the affair. Now at the time that was no comfort, but I had never caught him in a lie about anything else prior or since.<P>This was not comforting at the time, but it seems to go hand and hand with betrayal. The truth seems to be found in bits and pieces along the way. Maybe the truth is to ungly for the betrayer so they only expose what they can handle at that moment.<P>By the way, idea of the affair was really really bad, but the idea H was capable of lying to me did the real damage.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi<BR>yes I think it is very normal, unfortunately. My H also lied or "diluted" things down a lot in the first few months. Finally he started telling me much more of the truth and although it hurt so much, it actually was a god send to finally get the truth. I could finally start to stop obseessing and making things up in my mind, which were always much worse than what actually went on. I think they dilute the truth cos they dont want to face everything they did and also dont want to lose you because of it. If only we could get through to them that the truth sets us all free. You'd think they would be tired of lying...<BR>

Yes, I will agree with the others about this being normal, if one can find anything normal in this stuff! <BR>Maybe he had reasons that are not understandable to you? Reasons I heard were that he was protecting me, that he did not want me to feel any worse than I did already, that details would cause more pain. And on and on. <BR>When he decided to tell the truth, it was a whole lot uglier than I imagined. Careful what you ask my friend....the truth is not necessarily better. It did not make it any easier to deal with in my case! <BR>Know why you are asking the questions!! Why do you want to nkow if they had sex in the car? Will you then sell the car and get a new one? If so, then by all means ask. But if there is not real concrete reason, ask yourself WHY before you ask for details. You will not hear what you want to hear!! cl

Crushed,<P>So much of your profile sounds like mine. The depression and stuff. You'll have to read my profile to see the similarities and the differences.<P>At any rate my husband lied to me too big time. Stupid stuff as well. In fact things still come out. The last one was about a month ago regarding his dancing with the OW. I flipped as he had told me in the beginning that he had never danced with her. He says he told me he did. Fact remains he is not one for details either. He can't remember all the lies from before discovery or after. He too doesn't know why he lied after discovery regarding stupid things. I think some of it may have been his dumb way of trying to save me some pain. All it really did was make it worse when I found out the truth. <P>He doesn't understand that the more I know the more power I felt I had over it. The less sacred his relationship with her is. I get to intrude. Not sure exactly. I felt it helped me heal. Now though I can tell you that some of the details still haunt me and I wonder if I would be better off not knowing.<P>It has been nearly 8 months sense discovery. We are probably fairly into recovery as he hasn't spoken to her sense July 19th. (They work together)<P>He is unfortunately still in love with her but working hard on us and we are doing well. <P>I know I seem to be rambling...I am sorry...having a rough night tonight.<P>I think most of your situation sounds very positive and I will pray for you and your relationship with God. <P>Your husbands lies I think are very normal. Now that he is walking closer to God he will probably be more honest. I caution you though to only ask questions you are prepared to answer.<P>I think that if you want this to work it can. My husband didn't love me or thought he didn't love me when this all came to light. Now he does. It just isn't that high of the in love experience. <P>As far as forgiveness goes I forgave my husband pretty much immediately. I have angry moments from time to time usually stemming from an event that was popping up at the moment, not from the affair.<P>It will all come in time and it does get better. It is still painful. I was laying in bed next to him tonight and crying. Still it is sadness but not gut wrenching grief like before. I have to say it gets better and better. Easier and easier.<P>Don't loose heart. Don't loose what faith you have. I believe and I think you will find most Christians here believe that it is God's will that your marriage work.<P>I will be lifting you up in prayer.<P>I sure hope what I have said is helpful and not confusing. If it is I am sorry. As I said I am having a rough night. (Still not as rough as nights at 10 weeks after discovery. )<P>Please keep us up dated.<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Samantha-MI (edited October 20, 1999).]

Crushed,<P>Oh boy, do I understand where you're coming from. I could have written your letter myself. My H acts just like yours, in that he's remorseful, and couldn't do much more to show this to me. But, I also caught him in lies in the beginning, and they killed me. They stopped after a month or so.<P>Unfortunately, yesterday, 9 months into recovery, I caught him in another lie. This was trivial and had nothing to do with another woman, but I blew my top because of it. I will not stand another lie out of his mouth!! EVER!!!! So, I packed up my stuff today, and my son and I moved out of the house. He knew that one more lie and I was gone. He took the chance, and now he's going to have to pay the consequences. I can't stand a liar. <P>Anyhow, sorry to use your thread as a venting session. I never vent here, so I figured this was my best opportunity for some relief. I just want you to know that his behavior is very common. I wish I knew how to stop it. And stop the obsessing. Lying can make a person crazy! Much moreso than the truth. I wish the betrayers could understand that. Good luck to you!<P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<BR>

Crushed,<BR> my husband did the same thing and still does. I have kept up with his answers and asked him the same thing again and he STILL<BR> lies! I dont even know why I do this.We were<BR> washing his Explorer the other day and it hit me, she must have been in my car! So I asked him<BR> "was she in my car"?<BR> "dont start, please dont start here"<BR> "was she? I want to know?<BR> "if you insist ,yes she was, Jesus, <BR> I'm sorry, all right".<P> Last month he swore she wasnt.I knew she had to be because when I went out of town,<BR> he kept my car and I took his Explorer.<BR> I knew it but I wanted to hear him say it.<BR> Just be honest for once. He told me we can sell my car, I told him thats ok cause everytime I look at it and he looks at it we will remember what he did!<BR> Wheres Wonder Woman and her truth lasso<BR> when you need her?<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>

Thanks guys, It is weird to find out this is all so normal, like I wonder, how stupid is he? If he wants me to take a shot at this why does he continued to shatter my trust? My counsoler said it has something to do with security, like they hold onto stuff to feel safe and in control. I don't know it all sounds so stupid considering what they've already revealed! Each lie was really no big deal, but the fact that he lied about said so much more and made it into a bigger issue than it needed to be. That is THE thing for me is the holding onto the lie says, I control this.<P>When he first explained why he lied he said that at first he tried to justify it by saying he wanted to "protect" me and not cause me anymore pain . HE thought I couldn't handle some stuff, so he decided for me. (disrescepting me again, control, etc.) I told him he lost the right to protect me. <BR>Anyway, he then said the real reason he didn't tell me things was because he thought of how the truth would effect him, how it would further distance me from him. When in reality, the lies accomplished that. Lies are always about selfishness. Honesty is putting yourself aside and taking the heat.<P>Lying is a breech in trust, that's why it is so difficult. My c said I shouldn't decide on staying in the marriage by whether he will cheat on me again, it's really about if he breaks that breech of trust in whatever way. He told me about couples who worked thru all the infidelity stuff, and broke up over lies. Because its so much deeper.<P>Distrusting, when you said you left I think you did the right thing. It is not TRIVIAL (maybe what he lied about but not the act of lying). I would do the same thing. That would be one of my conditions if I stayed. <P>By the way, when I found out about the car, actually both cars, I did sell them both. I ended up with a car half the value, because I decided to be fair and let him get a car with the remaining value. (one car was worth less than what we owed) In practical terms, it was not a good move, but for my mental health it was. I agree with the one person who said everything reminds her, I just couldn't drive in it though, I felt at least I could control that memory. It's ironic though, as I drive the new car, I remember why I have it.<P>I understand what you mean about really wanting the answers to some questions. There is one I wish I didn't know, but in a way I had to know. I asked if he gave them oral sex and he did. That is THE most difficult part in all this. I don't know how to get past this one. Anyway for the most part I know the things I don't want to know and I don't ask. For me this process is about sorting it out and trying to see the reality of the situation.. and it's unbelievably hard.

My H lied so much that even for him the line between what happened & what he said happened has blurred. He has no memory for dates, times, places. I've decided that since what I do know doesn't help me, why would I want to know more?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P>