No matter how many EN's we meet

No matter how much we eliminate LB's

No matter how much we read here

No matter how much effort we put into Plan A or Plan B

No matter how much we change ourselves

No matter how much we love our spouses

No matter how much we love our children

No matter how much we want our families together

THE WS GETS TO DECIDE!!!

WHEN ARE WE GOING TO STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THIS ONE INDISPUTABLE, UNDENIABLE FACT OF WHY WE ARE HERE?

No advice, strategy, or PLAN will stop any one from continuing to be selfish!!

This hooey about showing the WS we are a better option than AP is degrading and humiliating. Time after time I read the advice that is nothing short of how we cow-tow(so to speak) to the WS while they sleep in another person's bed, treat the BS like garbage and care only about their A and their entitlement.

I am so sick and tired of my children crying and hating their life now because their mother chose to be selfish.

MMF

I am not familiar with this version of Plan A and I have been here for 8 years. Where did you find it?

Any BS that would hand the decision making for their life over to a falling down drunk [WS] deserves what they get. Plan A does not involve handing control of ones life over to a WS. Oh no, not at all. The BS gives the WS a short opportunity to end the affair. If that does not happen, Plan B is warranted. [unless you are a conflict avoider who makes Plan A a way of life, but that has nothing to do with Plan A]

The Plan A I know about is about showing your spouse your willingness to meet her needs in the future IF she dumps her affair partner. Lovebusters are avoided.

It has nothing to do with "cow-towing" or enabling.

It involves standing up firmly against the affair, causing as much conflict as possible and protecting oneself legally. It does not involve cow towing.

Dr. Harley: "Plan A should never involve sacrifice. In other words, you can be as encouraging as possible about your willingness to meet his emotional needs without actually doing it, and still be in Plan A. And you can defend yourself from your husband's abuse (calling the police or calling his lover's husband) and still be in Plan A. The point of plan A is that you are making an effort to do your part to make your marriage successful, but from my perspective, it should never involve personal sacrifice."

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

"The Plan A I know about is about showing your spouse your willingness to meet her needs in the future IF she dumps her affair partner. Lovebusters are avoided".


Exactly my point...how the A must end FIRST before the BS is even considered

I understand where you are coming from MMF, but the WS is not the only one with choices. Some who have been betrayed make the choice to try to recover their marriages, others make the choice to divorce immediately. The principles here are designed for those betrayed spouses who want to try to stop the affair and recover the marriage.

Your wife has made horrible choices that have brought you and your family much pain. She has created a situation that is causing you to have to make choices you never wanted to make... but they are still your choices. Only you can decide how you will respond to your circumstances. That is all you ever could or ever will control.

We are already divorced. She pushed it from the beginning to free herself for the OM. She got her selfish wish granted and forced me into being a part-time parent. Let me try and describe how wonderful(not)it is being a part-time parent and going days without seeing my own children.

The BS doesn't get to decide anything!!

Why is that so hard to see?

The WS goes about their selfish ways no matter who it hurts and long-term effect it will have.

I am completely confused about what you are saying. The BS gets to decide over which they have control. The WS has the same option. That is how life is, you only have control over yourself unless you are a judge, policeman, or GOD. Affair or not, you can only control yourself.

ML,

The WS DECIDES to step outside of the M.

If a BS wants the M and their family together, it CANNOT happen unless the WS DECIDES they want the M.

The BS who wants their family and M DOESN'T have a chance unless the A ends.

2 people took a vow and brought children into this world. Yet, 1 person(WS) decides to leave the M. So now the BS is left along with the children(who have no say in anything and have control over nothing)

I'm an truly sorry about your situation. However I think in all M both S get to decide to stay or leave. People get divorced all the time - not just because of an A. Each person always has the right to leave a M. Now it may be for wrong reason (to be with AP as one example) but we can't control other people. If you decided that you couldn't get over your wife's A after you found out then you could have left the M and then you would have had all the power and control (assuming she wanted to stay). There are plenty of examples on these boards of WS saying that the BS has all the power. It really just depends on the situation more then anything I think.

You're so right, MMF. A BS is magically stripped of decision making ability. They have no say in their lives now and had no responsibility for the state of the marriage before the OP came skipping along. They and their children are doomed to a life of nothing but pain, anger, and bitterness. Marriage Builders is pure bunk. There is no hope of ever finding peace and happiness once the BS badge is worn. We have no control over our lives and bah humbug to all these people around here who claim that when the principles are actually applied to one's life they have some value.

Thank you for showing me the light!

"None so blind as those who refuse to see."

MMF, you have been grinding your guts out for months and months in an attempt to change reality by railing against it. As though your rage against the unfairness of it all could change it.

Obviously, we have been unable to help you here. I really hope you will find a good therapist and allow him/her to help you make the rest of your life better than what you've been able to turn it into using your own methods. Clearly, they are not working.

I wish you peace.

Right Here Waiting

MMF,

I get where you're coming from and basically agree with it. I've said numerous times that Plan A doesn't have much value to a BH for just the reasons you cite.

Note: I limit my MB time to only BH/WW scenarios, as there are enough significant differences that I truly can't relate to either a BW or a WH.

If you read up and down this forum, you will find many lost and confused BH's that are still floundering in hopeless situations because they are attempting to implement some form of these plans or a mish-mash thereof, when they would be much better off recognizing the situation for what it is and moving on to Plan D to protect themselves and their children both financially and emotionally.

Fortunately, there are more and more BH's (usually those who attempted the Plans and then wound up in Plan D anyway) that are speaking up about how most (probably 90+%) WW's simply aren't worth the effort, and that especially in cases of relatively short term M's and/or no kids to go straight to Plan D and start over fresh with a more suitable marriage partner.

The BS gets to decide all sorts of things, starting with do I make a stab at getting the WS back or do I kick them to the curb? You are confusing the things which are in your control and the things that aren't. Another person's behavior, whether it's your spouse or a total stranger, is OUT of your control - ALWAYS. This has nothing to do with adultery or anything else - it is a simple fact of life.

It is like asking "why didn't I get to decide who's house was destroyed" after a tornado blew threw your neighbourhood. You just can't and don't. What you can and should do is decide is if there is anything left in the wreckage worth salvaging, whether you are going to rebuild, or if you should just level what's left and move to another location.

You are obsessing over things you can't change. Repeat the serenity prayer a few hundred times. It helps.

Hi,

With all due respect . . . it certainly involves personal sacrifice. You are (As MMF says) sacrificing all that you ARE and HAVE BEEN for someone who is clearly making excuses for their disgusting behavior! If you were not working Plan "A" as it's called . . .you would be saying what's really on your mind! No restraint at all. The prescription that I have read here demands self-control and a true willingness to cope with all of this by using an analogy that your spouse is an "alien". I think that's a good coping mechanism for some but the White Elephant continues to be that they are cheating on you and risking the financial and emotional stability of the ENTIRE family! They hold ALL the cards. To pretend otherwise is just plain and simple denial. Back to biblical basics . . . no one needs to take that if they don't want to. It's not whining and complaining. If I didn't have children . . . I wouldn't be in this marriage anymore. That's my truth and God is my witness. I have been degraded, humiliated, ignored, stolen from and asked to change my personal appearance by this man who I have been with for 20 years. Did you ever see "Diary of a Mad Black Woman?" That's me without all the Money!!!! Can I get a witness??

MMF,

I don't reply much to posts mostly because I feel like I don't have much to offer in the way of advice. But I wanted to reply to you and tell you I completely understand how you feel. Sometimes that is all we are looking for on when we come here. Just someone to say I get it. Unfortunately others use sarcasm to deal with pain and frustrations, I however think that how you feel is valid. I too feel like I have been stripped of my power and dignity at times. And the betrayal by the one I love is so painful it is easy to get caught up in the despair of the situation.

If it helps, what I try to do is list the things that I can control when I feel like this. Sometimes it works, other times not so much. But it might be worth a shot. Keep your chin up and remember that you didn't cause the breakdown of your marriage, you did everything you could to try to save what you and your wife created, but ultimately it was her that destroyed it. You did your best and that is all that we can hope for at the end of the day. Hug your children when you do get to see them and be the best dad you can. That you can control.

BOB

MMF,

Perhaps you are getting more advice that you wanted, but you did ask. I am not a BS or WS, but I am an H who is looking at a divorce that I do not want, and see my children cry because of it. I have a choice of ignoring it and saying it's not my fault, getting angry and blaming my W, or I can do whatever I can to make life better for them and forget about who's to blame.
That's my choice, that's my power.

Didn't we already do this once?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2214413&fpart=1

What your wife did to you and your childrene is horrable, but you can't controll her.

You can controll you.

I am sory this has happenend to you.

MMF

I understand what you are saying but at the same time you are giving a false argument. You can't control other people period. If your spouse didn't want to quit drinking, smoking, yelling, cheating, gambling, over eating (pick your vice) or even something as simple as putting down the toilet seat or putting the cap back on the toothpaste because they CHOOSE not to NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANTED THEM TO, that's on them. As others have said that's life. However, if YOU don't want to tolerate such behavior, WHATEVER IT IS, that for you to decide.

I'm sorry your WW is such a selfish B. If a wayward is dead set on leaving, then no amount of Plan A or B is going to change that. No one claims either plan is a guarantee. If neither works and your spouse is simply too selfish and doesn't care, there's nothing you nor anyone else can do about that. The consequences suck for you and your children, but that would go for anything. It's unfair, but so are a lot of things in life when a person screws you over.

Sorry you are feeling so bad.

MMF,

I too agree with what you are saying in principal.

Let me explain.....I came here a broken man. I felt like the lowest of lowes, biggest failure ever, etc., etc.

I have said before that my WW and OM did not have a meeting with me and the kids to discuss their A. I did not have a vote.
I half attempted to follow the plans, did exposure, etc.

Then one day I realized that I was not being pro-active, instead I was being re-active to my WW and the destruction she was causing.

Most of you know that I get on the religion soap box from time to time, because having God in my life is me.

Saying that, when I de-fogged myself, I became the pro-active person that I am today.

I refused to let my WW control any part of my life. Why should I? She is sleeping with another man.

I surrendered to God.
I dedicated my life for the betterment of my DS.
I exercise, sleep well, and eat healthy.
I reclaimed my finances.
I pay bills.
I grocery shop.
I do laundry.
I clean my home.
I involve myself in all my childrens lives. (they love it)
I make sure my family goes to church.
I pray with my DS everynight.
I check his homework.
I help him with school.
I make sure we go on vacations.
I etc., etc., etc., etc......

These things obviously pissed her off cause she filed for divorce. So, ..............

I petitioned for custody.
I asked for child support.
I hired the best attorney possible.
I completed child parenting classes.
I have not seen, spoken to, or had any contact with WW for over 60 days.
I AM AT PEACE!!!!

Not picking on you cause I agree with the way you feel. But notice all the things that I do. No where did I mention in MY LIFE RIGHT NOW anything about my WW. I decided that MY life and the LIFE of DS are far too important to be re-active to person who chose to simply abandon her family for self satisfaction.

I came her with the goal to recover my M. I finally did all the right things working all the plans. In my situation, WW did not respond...she was too far gone.....So, I choose to LIVE, SERVE GOD, and BE A DAD!! I promise I have the better end of the AFFAIR. (darn that felt good to say)

LOVE YOUR LIFE MY FRIEND!!!!!!!!!

I am so genuinely sorry for you. Your pain comes through in every word you write. Please don't let this pain ruin you.

The responders here are so right. You have NEVER had control of others, including your wife. The control you felt you had in your marriage was an illusion.

You can only control your own actions and thoughts. Plan A and B to me are about taking some control of the situation for ourselves, and not for using in order to control others. Using plan A is about being the best me I can be, and that should be something we strive for with or without WS's. Plan B should be about protection.

I can honestly say that the things I have learned here leave me, as a BW, feeling that I have much more power and control over my relationship than I have ever thought I had. I now understand the dynamics of a successful marriage, meeting EN'S etc. The knowledge of how I can impact my marriage through my actions using MB concepts is so very empowering.

I wish you all the very best for the future. Your pain will diminish.