Hey Looking4!
Loved it. It's so true. How come He shows you all the coolest stuff? It made my day. Thank you for taking time to share it.

Jim

Hey L4

That was v moving and I have just the person in mind to forward it to. I hope it will comfort her.

Wow. Just when I begin believing there might actually be some redemption for the cheating I've done, I read on another thread someone's thoughts -- someone who's opinion I hold in high regard.

From MelodyLane as found on the thread "Dear Abby - the other woman - thoughts..." in response to a letter written to the columnist by a WW:

=======

"Not only is she an evil tramp, but she is dishonest and delusional. Engaging in sexual relations with a married man is evil and the definition of "TRAMP" is:

tramp  18. a sexually promiscuous woman; prostitute.

She would also be properly defined as:

wh*re   /hɔr, hoʊr or, often, hʊər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hawr, hohr or, often, hoor] Show IPA noun, verb, [censored], whor⋅ing.
–noun 1. a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet."

=============

I didn't want to T/J the stimulating convo there. Thought I'd deal with the lump in my throat here instead.

FWW or WW... At the end of the day it doesn't matter, does it. We aren't woman, friends, teachers, lawyers, mothers, sisters, Christians, Jews, Aussies, Americans, neighbors, or daughters. We're not people who at one time were or could ever again be kind, caring, considerate, intelligent, thoughtful, sacraficial, humorous, fun, spiritual, warm, sad, silly, mournful, charitable, loving...

I know Melody's words were in context to responding to a current WW, but the way it reads, and the way many posts here read are that those of us who have been with a married man "would also be properly defined as wh**es". No qualifications. No room for exception or error. All WWs are promiscuous. We're all prostitutes. One label fits all.

...Though it's interesting in that I don't think I've seen a WH referred to as a prostitute's male counterpart here on MB. WWs are the lowest, cheapest, and easiest beings on earth. We're wh*res. WHs are simply pondscum.

The way that many on MB can easily drop judgements that color all WSs with a single brush -- WWs in particular -- hurts. We're all hurt. BSs and WSs. I agree BSs have it worse. But few seem to blink an eye when FWWs and WWs are called names. It's accepted even if just because no one challenges it. Myself included.

Funny how when it comes to one's own WS, especially WHs, their WH isn't all the horrible things we attribute to the OP (the other WS in many cases), they were just an alien for a time, living in a fog. But every other WS out there is cheap, disgusting tramp. She can't possibly have been a person who had little to zero self-esteem, who made bad choices because her boundaries were non-existant or too soft, and who was approached during an extremely vulnerable time. She accepts responsibility and mistakenly thought she might have feelings for the FOM, but she's still a tramp.

No. A WW is nothing more than a wh*re.

Sorry. I've been doing fairly well so I don't want to start any kind of argument or discussion here. I'm just feeling very much judged on other general threads because of my label. The only one some will see. And it's not a good feeling.

Now's when you tell me to suck it up.

L4 - we may have ACTED like wh**res but WE ARE NOT WH**es.

I love you. I don't know you AT ALL. But I love you. Be well tonight. Despite the awful thread that you stumbled upon. I love you. Together we will make it through this. I LOVE YOU. Someone who doesn't know you...I see your worth. And you are NOT a wh**re. *smooch*

L4:

Your looking into that Black Hole.

Don't worry, they crush the male cheating species around here pretty good to. I see it, just like you see the female side.

Its......just that way.

When there is sort of a "fun" thread, its usually the worst on those. When its a new BS or even WS, usually there is a lot more careful words used.

Later, as you pass though the various phases, you WILL regard it with less anger/pain/annoyance/whatever.

Because you will earn the F. What WE were is not what WE ARE NOW.

And that makes all the difference in the world.

You will be ok.

LG

But we didn't even act like wh**es either, Roo. Taking Mel's definition, we were either taking money for the PA or we are promiscuous. The definition for promiscuous according to www.dictionary.com is:

1. characterized by or involving indiscriminate mingling or association, esp. having sexual relations with a number of partners on a casual basis.
2. consisting of parts, elements, or individuals of different kinds brought together without order.
3. indiscriminate; without discrimination.
4. casual; irregular; haphazard.

My PA did not involve multiple partners. My affair last spring was not mingling or casual. I received no money for my affection and in fact received not a single gift from FOM other than work-related presents that were from groups of people.

I agree I am not a wh*re and never have been. And when any WW is called that oh so flippantly, it saddens me, because the people making the accusations know maybe one or a few WWs, certainly not every one and every situation. And if the WW is a prostitute, doesn't that make the BW's WH a John? Or perhaps a pimp? Is it "less sinful" to be the degrader or the degradee? The slave or the slave master? Discuss among yourselves.

And I love you too, Roo. I'm proud of you and your courage. We are women who have struggled and who have sinned, as all have.

The quick judgements can sting, the flippant comments can frustrate, and what I interpret as self-righteousness saddens and/or angers me. This rant was a result of some of it coming together within me at the same time.

A glass of Pino Grigio and distance from some threads and I'll be fine. Or perhaps it's a Patron night.

Have I mentioned I miss my H?

Yes it does matter. :twobyfour: It does matter.


Not me lol. I called my FWH all sorts of colorful names while he was wayard.


I can only speak for myself, although I'm sure others would probably agree including Mel, but if someone hasn't taken responsiblity then yes they are still a tramp and a bunch of other things. The woman in that letter is an ACTIVE WAYWARD who doesn't care who she hurts. THAT IS NOT YOU NOW L4.

Sorry if my words hurt you L4 or any FWS for that matter. I usually use such threads as target practice with my OW in mind. OW is unrepentant and unremorseful so yes I see her as a tramp just as the woman in that letter.

Hi L4-

I've met you and I love you!

I read the Dear Abby thing in the paper and I was angry too because this OW is an active wayward, full of justifications and ridiculous "advice." I particularly thought her assertion that she was not hurting anyone because her OM's marriage was still intact particularly bothersome.

I also resented this "not a mistress" giving advice about how to keep a marriage together and stating that "you might be an other woman some day." Oh puhleeze!

That's not you so please don't take it personally. You are just the same as me-a sinner who walks in the grace of God daily. We've all been told by our Lord and Savior "neither do I condemn you-go and sin no more." At the end of each day, this is what matters.

And I just want to say, I'm proud to be your friend-JT

You know that theory about how WWs affair down? Well every affair takes two so if one is affairing down, the other is affairing up. The FOM in my case is educated, well-respected in his church, admired by all co-workers, sought by competitors, attractive, tall, very smart, talented (music, art, computers), had many friends, and a sense of humor. Everybody loves FOM. So in our messed up, disgusting affair, FOM had to have been the one affairing down. That doesn't seem to help with my self-esteem issues either.

I can't focus on that and I don't -- unless H or the board here remind me. When I read of "affairing down", I'm reminded how according to the definitions I read here, I was only a body FOM used to build up his ego. True, and still hurts.

Can you hear the pity party coming up the street? You better step aside. I think there's a band and everything.

I'm honored to be your friend, JT. Your kindness and wisdom are humbling. Thank you.

Hello Looking4,

C'mere a minute...



There is no such thing as a secret...

Whatever the FOM was before the affair he is not any of those things now...

AND IN TIME EVERYONE WILL KNOW THAT.

YOU, on the other hand, are on your way to redemption and we are ALL so proud of you.

YOU have a heart and soul capable of real love and being loved again. The FOM never will...

BECAUSE YOU GET IT. HE DOESN'T AND NEVER WILL.

Mrs.Flint knew that also and made sure EVERYONE knew that she was no longer that person and her family loves and respects her for the courage she showed in redeeming herself.

Whether someone affaired up or down is not determined during the affair, but afterwards by their repentance and desire to restore their marriage...

Mrs.Flint and I are proud of you.

Dust off and hold on...

Cowgirl up.

Jim

Hey former local girl-

You know the cross on the hill north of town? (I can see it from my house). Well, during lent it's usually dark.

Tonight it's lit up.

I know it well. How special that you can see it from your home. It was meant to be lit tonight so you could tell me that. Just as my sis was meant to send that video today that I shared earlier.

I needed the reminders. Because God is great.

As are the people here.

My thoughts exactly. What a gracious God we have.

I leave to watch some good Thursday night
TV, ER was so good, only to return here to see a real mess.

Yes it does matter.

I called my WH absolute vile names, and they were all deserved, every last syllable.
OW got the same, probably worse. I still and always will think of her no differently.
OW and WH destroyed my life and our family. Not just for a day or a week or a month, but forever. I know we will heal, slowly.

It's impossible to see the OP as anything less, for what they have consciously done.

It's also impossible for you to feel or even imagine our pain. I pray that you never do.

But I don't know this OW, and I have not seen her change.
I have seen WH changing, and we all have seen you change.
We all have seen you struggle to leave the old L4 and become a new one, knowing that it is totally up to you to do this.
We all have watched you try relentlessly to understand your H's pain and support him almost unconditionally.
These are not the actions of those WW descriptions.

FWIW, I believe in you. I am so hopeful for your M, and it's all because of your soul searching and selfless thoughts.

We all rant and rage, it seems to part of the package. A different rant for a different day.

Take care you.

L4,

There is a clear difference between WW and FWW. And actively acting like a white trash ho or not is not the real difference.

A WW remains wayward until such time as she is remorseful. Not sorry she did it nor sorry she got caught or sorry she was so weak, or even sorry she hurt her husband but real Godly sorrow for the sin itself.

And yes, we have a great God...Psalm 95

That'll learn ya to step away. You gotta stick around and keep me from going off my rocker, V.

I sometimes chuckle about the thought that I should get a webcam with speakers strictly for MB members' kicks 'n giggles. I've been known to type and talk/laugh/cry/yell/sing at the same time. Everyone would probably be calling the folks in the little white coats to take me away -- especially when I'm in a mood. Let's just say I don't always type what I'm saying.

(It was a great show, wasn't it. Glad I recorded it for H so I can watch it again when he gets back tomorrow.)

I hope to never disappoint you, V.

Mrs. Flint. Thank you again for coming here at my request.

I credit this for helping me lower my boundaries.

Where our H's differ. Pre-A, H didn't pay attention and despite my begging for it, he put little effort into making our M work. Not that I had the answers. I may have not been doing the right things to make it work either (no idea about LBs and ENs), but I voiced a desire to try. I didn't even get that from H.

What were you afraid of?

Is Jim usually the pro-active one in your relationship? Does he jump in first as I do?

BS's have the right to demand this of WS's as part of any chance at healing. I am in no position to ask, let alone demand my spouse do this.

How can I help him understand?

He mocks MB. He knows it's important to me and is fine with me doing it, but he disses it when he can. Along with IC and MC.

I've told him. Over and over. As everyone here has told me and as Dr. Harley has told me to do. I don't know how else to do this.

Yes and no. I needed an ego boost, most definitely. A boost of something as my self esteem was pretty stinkin' low. I wanted to feel desireable, admired, attractive, smart... I needed to feel better. I may have ridden off into the sunset if FOM had asked when I was in the thick of it. It was never going to happen even if FOM's BW and my H kicked us both to the curb. Neither of us would ever live away from our kids and FOM and I live states apart, and we have some strong fundamental differences in lifestyle. I didn't allow myself to think it was possible because it wasn't, but I thought I was in love with FOM and would fantasize about being a couple. Yes. Disturbing.

I wanted to be with H, but didn't believe he wanted to be with me. Once I accepted that H didn't care (my unfair DJ, not H's truth), I determined that in fact I didn't want to be with H. 'I deserved to be with someone who wants me to be happy,' I told myself. During one discussion when I flat out told H that I was unhappy, H stated, "Well I'm happy so it's your problem." I changed my thinking about my M and my hopes for it upon hearing that single sentence.

I still feel this way about H.

H has never had a problem with RH. I obviously did. Though H would withold stuff. We both would.

Still makes my eyes water.

You should be. You should be very proud about who you are too, Mrs. Flint.

So all of this leads me to ask...

Do you think you would be recovered as you are without both of you participating in MB?

Would you be together if you did MB but Mr. Flint didn't? Or if only he did it?

Perfect.

Thank you.

So are you upset because you got called a whore but did not get paid? Who care's? You don't like that adjective pick another.

You can chose cheater, unfaithful, whatever makes you happy. The adjective is not important. Your actions were what was important then, and your actions now.

You made a poor decision then, you have admitted your mistake, you have changed now. This is more important.