In a nutshell - WH had an EA with OW for the past 2 months.
We're working on fixing us - not sure if we're in recovery officially since this is all still new.

WH did end it with OW and is doing NC and since he's been home on vacation since this all came out I've been able to keep pretty good tabs on him. No cell phone - no computer - I've been checking his emails - all pretty quiet till a couple days ago.

Cell phone voice mail is full since he's not picking them up so she sent him an email. Hurtful sounding - saying that she's been trying to get in touch with him - voicemail texting calling but he's not responding so he must've gone running back to "mommy" (that's me) and that he'll be "having fun for a little while but it won't last long" blah blah blah. I didn't tell WH anything about the email - I asked him though if he's been checking and he said he hasn't - I know that he hasn't because I've been watching him like a hawk.

Well, yesterday she sent another email and this one scared me because in her email she indicated that she didn't like it when she can't get things done the way it's supposed to be and that she kept good notes about their conversation they had earlier that evening - (with the time and everything) and saying that's what girls are good at - taking notes. Then she attached a picture of MY sons - MY sons - apparently WH had shared a picture of them with her and she sent it back to him - I see that as a threat - she knows what my kids look like! She asked should she print out a set of her notes and send them as a gift? I'm guessing to me.

You're probably thinking that my husband did slip but he didn't -last night at the time that she indicated he was supposedly talking with her he was with our older son at a preparation meeting for a campout that our son is going to this weekend. He was always in the sight of my son and he didn't use the phone or anything.

So maybe she had the wrong day but she said she's good at taking notes so I'm thinking that's counter to what she said. Plus his time is/has been accounted for,

Told WH about her email and that I'm scared - scared! She's sounding kinda whacko if she's making up stuff and trying to make trouble. I told WH if she sends 1 more email I'm calling her - he doesn't want me to though - doesn't want it to turn in to a battle - I told him I'd be rational and sane and just explain the facts of life - to please back off. Am I wrong? Am I just opening myself up to a lot of pain and hurt by talking with her?

WH hung his head in shame last night as we talked and said he was so sorry and that he really messed up...he sounded really remorseful...

Did your WH write a NC letter to the OW that you mailed? If he hasn't, he needs to write one that you will approve, and you need to mail it. There's a good one posted on this site and in "Surviving an Affair".

If she then continues to try to contact him, then simply have your attorney send her a letter stating that she is subject to charges of harassment if she attempts to contact your WH again. Be sure that he will really press charges in that case.

As far as the email is concerned, I think she has figured out that you are monitoring his email and decided to mess with your head. After all, if she thought HE was reading the emails, she wouldn't have told a lie about having a conversation with him earlier that evening.

Don't rise to her bait. She is trying to stir you up so you'll go ballistic on your WH and he'll get mad and go back to her. As for calling her, I wouldn't call that whack job. All she wants to do is taunt you and hut you. Don't give her the satisfaction.

As for your kids, she probably doesn't plan to DO anything TO them, but keep a close eye on them, as she might try "meeting" them and try to get information on you and your H that way.

I hadn't thought that she might know that I'm looking at his emails even if he hasn't. Thanks for the reasonable explanation I'll be more prepared the next time if there is one.

My husband did tell me more about her - she's divorced with 3 kids ages 12 - 22. We talked about their relationship and why he went to her and it's a classic case of us both not meeting each other's ENs especially as parents.

He didn't do the NC letter - he figured he told her it was over and that he wanted to work it out with me but I guess if it's in writing it would seem more real to her.

Thanks for your support...

An NC letter is important, and so is blocking her address from his email, changing his phone # ASAP, and all the other extreme precautions.

If she even once sends him email from a new email addy that isn't blocked, he needs to change his email.

You'll never heal while she can still butt in like this, even if he's not contacting her himself.

In my opinion, the NC letter is huge. My FWH had ended the sexual contact of his PA, but was still seeing the OW in the hallways at work. She kept tracking him down over and over, asking why he was not answering her calls, etc. I had underestimated the importance of the NC letter, its effect both on the OW and my FWH. There was something about putting the pen to the paper that made it more firm and final than just something that was said. It was very telling to me that it took him nearly 3 months before he would write it.

I agree with the other posters that OW knows or suspects that you are monitoring things and is trying to "mess with your head" and drive a wedge between you and H. In my case, my H told OW I was looking at the phone records, talking with OWH, reading emails. Still, she came very close to being successful with her manipulations. Thank goodness I had a very close friend who helped me recognize the manipulations. Ultimately, these turned out to be great Lovebusters of my H's feelings for the OW.

I am sorry to say this, but to me this seems like a very extreme reaction from OW over the breakup of a short-lived EA. How certain are you that there was no PA?

I am sorry you are here in this situation. There is so much to learn here from the articles, books, and forums. Best wishes.

AM

Dumped OW can be very upset and angry even if it was a short EA and not a PA.

I am not saying that it was an EA or that it was a PA, just that OW can get very hooked in an EA--even one of two months.

I agree that a no contact letter should be sent and that neither one of you should have any contact with OW after that.

Make needed changes to phone and e-mail to ensure she cannot contact either one of you.

Even after you send the NC letter, you may see a surge in her efforts to contact you as she may view that NC letter as "contact". Just make sure that after you send that letter that the two of you remain stone silent.

Do they work at the same place? You mention that he is home right now. Will he have to be going back to a job where she is also working?

I hope that her bizzarro behavior is hitting home with your Husband and he is realizing that this whole EA thing was a huge mistake.

Even if he is feeling like it was a huge mistake, they cannot work together. Any contact will constantly trigger both you and him, making recovery impossible.

Tell us more about this situation.

Hi dazed, sorry you are here. You will need her full name, occupation, address, etc. Do you know everything about her? Because it will be important to find out if she is married and expose the affair to her husband, if so. Affairees lie about their marital status quite often. Women often lie about being "abused." I have never figured out this logic, but it goes like this: my husband is abusive, therefore, I am entitled to behave like a skank. Who knows how that logic works, but many OW play the "abused wife" cared.

They do not work together, do they?

The letter that should be sent is the one found in Surviving an Affair, a book you will want to get ASAP:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Thanks for the reply guys and the support - you're right she must know I'm reading the email because she wrote last night and the email was a bit more telling. She said she had receipts and stuff from their time together. She said she is sending a set to him and a set to me for "tax purposes".

Of course what comes to question is was this just an EA and not a PA. Especially if she's so hooked on him abd willing to keep throwing herself at him.

They don't work together - he works with mostly men - just 2 women - one is in a relationship with another woman and the other is a good family friend that is married to another co worker where they work.

He's been on vacation for the past 3 wks - pretty much most of the time that this all came out.

I do know her name - I have an idea of where she works or I could find out now that I have her name. Her approximate age (44), divorced, and with 3 kids. WH told me she drives a Mercedes that's a lease - I asked for that info in case she drives down our street looking for him.

I got the books SAA and Her Needs His Needs for Parents. I'm reading SAA and so much of it makes sense - painful sense. Our relationship is a lot like Lee and Kevin.

This is my husband's first night back to work - he's on the graveyard. He didn't check his email I believe - I don't think he knows how read a message and then mark it as unread - so I know he didn't get into it.

He doesn't have his cell phone on and we will definately change his number - should I listen to his voicemails? His voicemail box is full - how many messages is that? None are from me - I don't leave messages if I can't get him.

dazed, go check her out on www.intelius.com and see if a man's name comes up next to hers. Find her phone # and do a reverse look up to see if a man's name comes up [anywho.com]. Call her house disguising your # with *67 and ask for her husband. If a man comes on the phone, tell him about the affair.

Does your H not know where she works? How is that you are so vague about this woman? Is your H telling you everything?

I would listen to them.

Where did he meet her?

Should I listen to the messages with him? Or alone?

I don't know where he met her - he hasn't divulged that yet. He thinks I'm gonna confront her or something - I won't say I have a temper but maybe I do that's why. But I'm in complete control - I promise - with what I've read here I understand not to loose it and I'm trying hard not to do any bad Love Busters - I want to keep an even keel and just work on our Love Bank. This is Plan A right?

I would listen to them alone, dazed. Just do it and get it over with. But most of all, I would look up her name and find out if she is married so you can expose to her husband, if there is one.

And secondly, he has to tell you everything about the OW. He can't expect to recover your marriage and hide details from you. That is cruel and manipulative. You have a RIGHT to know everything about her. And why can't you confront her? Is there a problem with that?

Why is he protecting the OW and NOT HIS OWN WIFE?

You need to know where he met her and everything else, dazed. This is information about your life that you have a right to know.

dazed, recovery BEGINS with honesty and that has not happened in your case as long as he continues to withhold details from you. That will not work. He cannot have secrets with the OW to which you are not privy.

excerpt from Requirements for Recovery:

Dr. Harley: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

entire article here

Okay keep me strong guys - I've been bouncing back and forth between my husband's email and here since I have time right now to monitor.

He had an offline message from her on 3/5 - he has an yahoo acct and the beta was off - just classic so the offline messages/chat wasn't enabled - he was in the email when I was - trying to get back to speed with his life - he changed it to beta and the message popped up. I called my husband at work right away and he was shocked that 1) I was on and 2) I had already read the message - I asked if he read it and he said no - he just deleted it. I told him I read it but couldn't copy it - no cut and paste. She is ticked off! It said something about how he doesn't know what he is doing and if he thinks she is just going to go away he's mistaken. She also said she thought he was gonna meet her at the doctor's.

Okay - this sounds like a huge wedge - doctor's visit? Even I know where this is going -

He told me from the beginning that there wasn't anything physical just needed someone to talk with and get those ENs met. If he admits to a PA now - after I've asked him time and time again if it was how should I react?

He also deleted the email she sent last night - but I made a copy of it - he said he didn't read it and I told him the contents - his reaction was one of disbelief. He picked a real winner let me tell you...

He doesnt want you to call her because he is lying about the details of the affair. I am sorry to tell you this, but he is. He very probably had sex with her and she seems to be indicating that she is either pregnant or has an STD. If she wanted him to meet her at the doctors, that tells me she is likely pregnant.

Dazed, please go listen to the messages now before he deletes them. He can delete them from any phone. Do this NOW.

Then go look up the OW's name on intelius and anywho.com like I told you.

They have been in contact, dazed. He has just gone further underground.

Dazed, I suspect there is ALOT going on here that you don't know about. I hope you are busy right now finding out what those hidden things are.

Dazed,

You are not very far past D-Day and it looks like your H is playing things straight from the script. That is, they almost never give you the whole truth up front. It comes out in dribs and drabs, over time, making you die a "death of a thousand cuts," as Melody Lane puts it.

I suppose they do this for one or all of the following reasons: 1) they are afraid you would toss them out on their a** if you knew the whole truth; 2) they are ashamed of their vile behavior and don't want you to know what they are capable of; 3) they believe "what you don't know can't hurt you" (but what they won't admit, even to themselves, is that they are covering their OWN butts); or worst of all, 4) they think you have no right to know, that they are entitled to privacy about things that affect YOUR life as much as theirs. Convenient wayward blind spot.

You cannot know what he might still be lying about, but you can pretty much assume you don't know it all yet.

You asked for advice on what to do if you should learn it was a PA.

First, you MUST NOT PUNISH HIS HONESTY if he admits a PA to you. NO angry outbursts, name calling, assaults on his character--unless you intend to divorce him outright, which it doesn't sound like you'd want to do. Instead, make it clear that he must make some serious changes if he wants to remain married to you. (You, of course, will have to do the same thing, as you own 50% of the state the marriage was in pre-A. Let him know that as well. His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters are required reading.)

You will need a PLAN to recover, and he must get on board. MB offers one that is guaranteed to work, if both partners work the plan.

Sit down with WH and tell him you want to know everything, every bit of it now, if your M is to have a hope. You do NOT want nasty surprises biting you every so often. It just wears you down, and resets recovery to zero every time.

Stay tuff, Dazed.

Right Here Waiting

ETA: Forgot to point out the obvious...NONE of this will work as long as he is still in contact with her, in any form, for any reason. I pray the "doctor visit" is a threat, not a real problem. Our OW suddenly developed "stage IV cancer" as soon as my H broke it off with her. Dope fell for it, but admittedly, he was still very foggy at the time.

Thanks for the replies everyone - yes I can see me dying the death of a 1000 cuts. Because the truth is coming out in dribs and drabs. I asked him for the truth the whole truth - the truth may hurt but it won't destroy me - I know that - if I can wrap my head around everything and understand how we got here then I believe that we can move forward.

I want to press him for more details but he is doing the 1-4 thing of why he won't tell me everything. He just doesn't understand that if I know I will feel more empowered I think and more in control.

Arrrggghhh - why why why....

dazed, he is hiding quite a bit from you which is why you will need to find it out on your own. Getting it all out in the open will kill this affair. As long as he can continue to keep secrets from you, his affair can continue to operate under the radar. You are going to have to take matters into your own hands and do some work here if you want to save your marriage.

I am very concerned about the "doctor" comment and if I were you, I would be finding out what that means by calling the OW. I suspect she will tell you, too, because she wants to bust up your marriage. She likely hopes that telling you will push you to throw him out.

But you are not going to get the full story out of your dishonest husband. It will be up to you to flush all this out.