I had a long talk with my daughters last night about this situation.

I tried my best to tell them everything, it was hard. a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Much of the conversation was about how the reason for all of this has nothing to do with them. They have no fault in this and are not too be blamed for any of it. The problems are between me and mom.

At the end of it, my DD siad "now I know why mom hates talking to you, it's all lies about her."

What now?

My young one didn't say much of anything, my oldest now thinks I am telling lies about her mom.

I suspect your wife has been feeding them stories for some time about you and blaming the problems on YOU. They have brainwashed into believing that you are the demon.

But thats ok, they will catch on eventually. Just keep telling them the truth and explaining to them WHY adultery is immoral. They need your moral guidance even though they might not hear it right now.

My thoughts exactly. WW has been doing damage control with her lies.

L2M,

One of the things you might want to talk to your DD10 about is how to understand how to watch how she listens to things she hears.

It can be very worthwhile, this conversation.

The thing that has happened here is that she probably believes your WW because that is the first person who talked to her about this situation. Kids kind of work that way - they tend to believe the thing they hear first, instead of working through lots of information and then coming to a conclusion. They learn not to do this after a few rounds of hard knocks, and after some maturity comes into place.

Your daughter, at age 10, hasn't climbed enough rungs on that ladder yet. You can help.

Have a talk with her about gossip at school. About how she might hear someone talking about a kid, and ask her how many times she has heard something from someone first, only later to find out that it just wasn't true at all.

She will tell you that has happened lots of times.

Then, ask her to watch how people act, and judge them based on what they do, not what they TELL you they do. Tell her that adults are the same way, too.

Make the conversation about kids - but in the end, make it about adults. Sum it up with how adults can fool her, even adults she might love. Tell her it is important to realize that even though someone might be the first person to tell her about something, they may not be right about it - and that she should always look for the truth about things. The first thing she hears might not always be the truth.

Tell her watch for what is true - and to talk to you, too.

I always told my girls that there are many people in the world, but they could only count on her parents to be on their side 100% of the time. In your daughter's case, it's down to ONE parent, isn't it?

SB

Sounds like you may be involved with a borderline woman. Try this URL

Borderline Women

Cymanca,

The boderline women url was schocking to read. It sums up my WW in so many ways, not that I have decided this is what her issue is, however so much of it rings true.

She is so good at come here, now go away.

She has told me so many great things about other men, I have my phone going off at all times of the night when she has decided how much she loves me and needs me as I am the only one for her.

Her childhood is textbook, she was abused by a brother beaten by her father. Her mother would not belive her about anything she said.
Her parents were always gone away.

She has an issue with alcohol.

It goe's on and on.

And she blames me for everything that has ever happened in our life.

WOW

I have contacted my lawyer, she is working on my D (that took a long time) I have told her I want full custody, may be very hard to do, yet she is working on it.

I have made a very large list of things to speak with my DD's about, and I hope I can get accross to them what the truth is.

I have no expectation that will happen today, or this week, as I know that my WW fills thier heads with crap all the time.

At no point have I ever thought that I was a perfect husband, I know I have faults, too many to mention here, yet for the longest time it was easy to belive her telling me how my faults caused so much tension. I did this, I did that, everything I did was wrong.

She told me not long ago how she always feels so judged by me. That took me for a loop, from day one she says she felt like I judged her, that I never gave her unconditional love.

I loved her, didn't judge her!

L2M,

She is saying those things to justify her behavior. She is entitled to treat you this way because of the things you did to her. It's all a bunch of hogwash. Why would you even bother to listen to a WW that has done so many horrible things to both you and even worse to her own children? I cannot even imagine how awful it must have been for the children to have some hope that their parents are getting back together just to have your WW contacting OM's within the first week you are all back under the same roof. That is about as bad as it gets. You should fight with everything you have to get full custody and RUN from this woman.

Mindshare

How true,

It is amazing how long it took for me to understand all of this, 5 years of playing her games. At the end though I have a great understanding of what I need to do, and at least I am taking the steps I need to get away from her.

If I had done all the things I said I would do before, I would not have put myself or my kids through this pain.

I want to thank all of you for the insight you gave me. I guess I always new that my M was over, I just didn't want to face it.

I admit to this day for some reason I still love her, or I still think I love her. I guess I dont know what I feel.

I guess I was just the person that thought I could make it work one way or another. However it takes two and I am by myself. It is hard to look at this situation and fully understand how hurtfull it has been for everyone.

I hope with time my DD's will come to understand, I'm sure they will, they are bright yet very confused by it all.

Again thank you and I am off to plan D.

What this means is that she doesn't WANT you to judge her because she knows she is doing wrong. She is trying to manipulate you, Lie2me.

You have done the right thing, my friend, and some day your DD's will know what you did for them. You are a good man, Lie2me, and a good father.

Thanks,

I try my best with my kids.

I am on to plan D now, paperwork is being done, I should be able to have her served by early next week.

It feel's good to be at this point.

L2M,

This is a marriage building forum...but not all marriage can (or should) be saved. You are far better off without this woman in your life. She has major issues and you will continue to be hurt again and again as has already been proven. Sorry to hear about the D process but it is time to move on. Hopefully, you will stick around these forums and continue reading and posting and try to learn what it is about you that allowed yourself to put up with a woman like that for so long. You need to figure that out before your next relationship. I belive you can and will as long as you educate yourself and look inward.

Mindshare

As a lawyer (I'm a tax lawyer but I've been on these boards for awhile now and seen a lot)...I strongly advise you to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.

Document exactly what you said to your daughters and there responses to the best of your recollection in your own handwriting in a dated journal. IF your wife fights for custody...you can bet that they will find out about this conversation and try to turn it against you. Make it out to be you trying to alienate her from the kids and involving them in "adult matters". It wouldn't hurt if someone here linked in Dr. Harley's words on "the lessons children learn" and his words about why children should be told about their wayward parents activities. Print that out and put in in the journal so you can refer to it as you write out your reasoning and what was said. See this makes it appear that you actually researched it and were trying to be a good parent and even if the judge were to think what you did wasn't great...he/she would SEE that you were actually behaving rationally with forethought and about the kids and not just being vindictive.

Perhaps you should start the journal by summarizing the last 5 years with every detail you can remember. Try to be factual and non-emotional about it. Remember to date it and insert as many dates as you can. This MAY be read in court someday (reading from notes prepared at the time of the events or thereabout are much much more persuasive and credible than simple hindsight recollection on the witness stand.

Make a hard copy of all email correspondance with your wife.

Change your email passwords just in case your wife has guessed them.

Continue to keep a journal of facts. If you are not great at this...then maybe get a large desk calender and jot down short notes on each day as things occur. Each month...remove the page and store it securely. Don't even trust your daughters to take them and/or copy them. Get a safe maybe (and bolt it down).

Your daughters are soon to obtain an age where they may have input in their own custody arrangement. Input doesn't mean the court will honor their wishes necessarily as they are still children...but it makes defending your custody much harder down the road. Thus...you won't be able to stop documenting your case until the youngest attains age 18.

Maybe your wife won't fight you. However, if she does you must be prepared to protect your children. It is my understanding that Canada general has a one year divorce process so this is going to take awhile and your daughters will be even older as the case matures....so be steadfast with protecting them.

Most importantly...don't ever just presume because you've had the kids 5 years that you will automatically win. Do your research and prepare your case. I've seen men here spend 5-10 hours a week documenting and preparing there cases. I don't know where you will find the time but just don't allow yourself to get blindsided. If your wife is borderline...ANYTHING is possible.

Additionally...the more prepared you are at the outset of this fight the less likely her attorney will push her to fight.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

errrr....can't edit.

I hate when I spell "their"..."there".

Probably a bunch more too.

Oh, well.

Thanks for all the input. I have kept notes over the last five years, however it would be worth it to go back and insure I have not left anything out.

And as soon as I can get her out of my life the better.

I also fear removing her from your life will be more difficult for you than you think.

A part of you LIKES the drama and she's likely to see your pulling back as a challenge. You've caved so many times before it's gonna take a lotta resolve not to cave again.

Often when BS herein go to Plan B...they themselves go through withdrawal.

If I were you I'd consider anti-depressants (though they could hurt your custody case a tad) and also that you keep posting herein. Maybe the divorcing board would also be a good place.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Tough situation for you. I dated a woman like that once. My life would have been he77 if I had actually married her. My exww? Elements of BPD, but I don't think she has it.

I commend you for being the dad you are. Sure, you may be the hard work and chores and stuff, but they'll appreciate that when they grow up.

One way to change that is to have the girls spend a little more time with your WW and impose responsibility on her.

I don't know the law in Canada but you have an established custody with the 5 years you had the girls. This should help a lot.

Stay strong. Get yourself your own counselor so that you never end up with a woman like this again.

Best of luck.

I wont take anything at this pont and for having my kids spend more time with her... thats a scary thought.

I am ready for the bs to end so I hope with strength I will get through it. My kids keep me going.