Is it possible to POJA a child when she wants another and I am done? Been dating over a year now and I knew this was floating around in the background from day one. She has a 2.5 year old son (usual visitation schedule with father who cheated, got affair partner pregnant, and married affair partner while GF was pregnant with their son). Real nice. GF is 37 and I am 56.

She greatly fears their side of the equation. More money, more fun, perceived nuclear family, half-sis (5 months younger than GF's son) to play with, maybe another child, etc., etc. Seems worse when visitation transfers take place every other weekend.

I feel she believes that another child will somehow change all of this for her to the betterment. I don't know, but last night was rough following the transfer. She was very emotional and down. She said she might as well give up because her son would be better off if she just walks away and leaves him over to the other side. Hard for me to hear.

After we put her son to bed, she asked me if I would still be around if she had artificial insemination. I did not respond immediately hoping she would elaborate. I enjoy time with her and her son and I enjoy time with her alone too.

I responded by saying that "I have many fears too. I fear that I am wasting your reproductive time". I held her and she fell asleep. I left and went back to my place and she called me later and thanked me for being her rock.

In short, no. You can certainly compromise, but since you're not married and exclusive for life this isn't something where POJA principles will work, especially if you're hoping that if you're not enthusiastic then she won't get pregnant. Look, as a-typical as it is, she's offering you a compromise. If you have a child with her, you're committed in the traditional sense whether you marry her or not. By having a inseminated baby, the legal responsibility remains with her. I think that's the only compromise you're going to get here. That said, are you going to assume a father figure role for ANOTHER child that's not yours?

You're at a cross roads here. You and your GF are at completely different places in your lives. She doesn't want to skip ahead. Do you want this relationship enough to rewind your life and feel ok about having more children? It's time to pick one, dragging this out any further isn't fair to her. That's my take on it anyway.

T

Is this the same girl from last year, who didn't have any spare time to share with you? Whose life was so busy she couldn't slow down?

If I don't accept her compromise, I guess we're done. She wants another child more than a relationship with me. Now that's hard to hear if I am hearing correctly.

Yes and no. Same girl but slowed down a bit. I adjusted my expectations too for amount of focused time and attention that I wanted.

That's too bad, because I don't see any good out of her having another baby, if she can't handle what's on her plate already. Are you close to her family? Can you ask them for support?

Jungian, she's marrying someone 19 years her senior. Like me, she will probably face her later years where she will need some help, alone, instead of like you will, with a caretaker. It makes total sense to me that if she has two kids, she'll double her chance of having some support then. This may be her way to minimize the cost to her of choosing you over chosing a man who will be with her when she needs it.

I wouldn't necessarily take this as a bad thing. I wouldn't think of it as she wants another child *more* than she wants a relationship with you. I'd say, she's being O&H about the kind of life she would want, and if that isn't the kind of life you would want then she wisely sees it would lead to resentment if one or the other of you unwillingly agreed to compromise.

The guy I thought of as my best friend in the whole entire world, wanted to never have kids. He knew that was a dealbreaker for me. We wisely knew that we should not get married unless he knew he could be happy having kids.

He didn't think of it as I wanted kids more than I wanted him. I didn't think of it as he wanted to NOT have kids more than he wanted me.

So in a sense it is POJAing kids. If a POJA can't be reached on something as important as whether or not to have children, then do *not* enter into a lifelong commitment.

This is certainly something that *everyone* should discuss and work through prior to getting married. Kudos to both of you for being H&O.

I see other red flags here as well jungian. The emotional breakdown during the transfer for one. If her XH D'd her before her son was born, and now the son is 2.5 years old... That seems like a long time to still not have adjusted to the arrangement. Then again, it might be different in her case if she didn't get the opportunity to have some uninterrupted bonding time with her infant son.

But that she could even seriously consider giving him up is totally anathema to me. I'd run every ring of Hell barefoot in order to keep time with my kids.

And the idea that another baby might fix things or make them better. Was your presence supposed to make things better too? Help her to start over?

I think I'd be moving on....I see so much it isn't funny!

If she has another child, even due to insemination, you are going to have to support it and then, if you ACT like it's father and you two split up, you will HAVE TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT EVEN IF THIS CHILD IS NOT BIOLOGICALLY YOURS!

So, you know she would do anything even poking holes in condoms to get a baby from you. Watch your condoms, lock them up, and use them every time. She will trick you. I would get away from this one.

You need to be loved WAY more than she loves the idea of having a baby!

Jungian, I'm with Seabird on this one. I think the baby is a dealbreaker, but even if she does an about face, the impetus behind the baby seem to be red flags.

Well, I have never seen a relationship without any "red flags". I'm just throwing mine onto the pile here.

If left up to the male species desire to populate the earth, Disney World would be a very lonely place to be. I know the desire to procreate meets a female need that I cannot truly empathize with. I struggle to understand this desire in the female gender seemingly above all other life choices.

Then again, maybe I just fear that this may be a hill we die on. I really don't want to kick myself to the curb.

Yes, all relationships have red flags. However, there are certain big deal-breakers that can ruin any relationship, and babies is among those. What happens in you continue in the relationship and she gets pregnant? What if she wants you to marry her when she now has a 4 year old and an infant? What if she says she doesn't want more children, and then, you marry her and she changes her mind or "accidentally" gets pregnant?

As an FYI, I don't think the urge to procreate is a female one alone. I known lots of men who really wanted to have children, often lots of children. They have chosen children above all other life choices as well. In fact the majority of men have chosen it. I've also known women who never wanted children.

You may love this woman deeply, but love doesn't conquor all. Romantic love is incredibly fragile. Compatibility, shared core values and goals, makes it a lot easier to sustain romantic love because it's easier to POJA. Both people are closer on issues to begin with.

Not all red flags are created equal jungian. I sympathize with your not wanting to end it.

This bears repeating. Note bolded and underlined statements. These won't change even when everything else does.

IF YOU STAY WITH THIS WOMAN

YOU will have to have a child with her.

No question about it.

If you do not have a child with her immediately, she will demand one, beg for one, get herself inseminated and make one you will have to care for (and pay child support on if you split up) and have the financial burdon of two kids hers and yours.

So, either you stay with her and she "gets pregnant" or you leave now.

Good to have you back again, Stellakat... Can't mistake your poignant posts. Maybe I will go get that vasectomy.

Yes! Get it now!

Could not get on under my old name, forgot my password!!

Bubbles/Stella,
Same thing happened to me with password - couldn't recover it either through email.

Jung,
It's not fair to keep this GF when you both are seeking different roads. She deserves to find someone else who wants the same things as her - You're being selfish keeping her.

gg