6yl

You never answer questions that your answers will paint you in a bad light.

Give us fog babble: "just using her, in spite of the fact that she approached me"

Whether you asked to use her as a sex toy or she offered to be used as one does not matter you are using her as a sex toy.

You do not offer her a full relationship, yet have no problem using her.

More fog babble: "in spite of the fact that she approached me, and claiming that she is scheming and manipulative, and had a plan all along"

Denial that she never wanted more from the beginning. Women know men connect through sex with them as a fact. She is saying all the right things to not scare you off. Playing you as a 10 pound LM bass on 2 pound line.

More fog babble: "clearly projecting your religious code, probably judeo christian based, onto me"

I have never used religion. I have never told a poster that they "must get right with god". That said, America and western culture is based on the ten commandments. You do not have to believe in god or that god wrote them to believe that they are ten good rules to live by and political laws foundation is based on this heritage.

Stop blowing up smoke.

Just because one use's words to justify action does not make that action right. Just as numbers don't lie, but liars use numbers to lie.


As to you bringing up religion

6,
I'm curious - your ex didn't want anything to do with her own biological children - she left and went to another country. Did I understand here that Sam's wife doesn't want the baby and Sam is going to raise him/her? You posted something about GF not sticking around. Father and son got involved with emotionally detached women? Is this an accurate assessment?

I can't belive you're only 42

GG

Six:

I'm not surprised your GF has developed more feelings for you, or that you're developing feelings for her.

What's surprising about that?

Just treat her with respect, Six. And look for it in re2rn.

Whether this R develops in2 something more or not, I can't tell and won't speculate.

-ol' 2long

6,
I'd like to recommend a book for you. What I have observed (and I'm no therapist) is that you allow gray areas where you should be seeing black and white. The book "Boundaries, Where You End and I Begin" by Anne Katherine is an excellent book for someone with weak emotional boundaries.

http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Fi...mp;s=books&qid=1237038293&sr=8-1

Take a look and see what you think - it's a short read.

I was like you - giving all of me and expecting nothing in return. This book helped me.

GG

Road,

We do have a fundamental disagreement about the role of sex in relationships. Since you seem to see a casual sex only relationship as illegitimate or abnormal then clearly one or both of us must be acting immorally. I have learned things here and I am being more honest and starting to define my own boundaries better. I'm concerned that I come across as if I think I am perfect in my writing. I struggle with lots of things just like everyone else on this site.

Our society does have its roots in the judeo christian morality but has evolved significantly since then. For example, we no longer dole out the biblical punishments for moral crimes like adultery. I personally only subscribe to some of the 10 commandments (here is what I think they are and how they fit in my moral code)

1. I am the Lord your God Do not have any other gods before me.
2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God
3. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not murder
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
9. You shall not covet your neighbour’s house;
10. You shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

So for me 1,2,3 and completely religion based and meaningless. Although it does seem like a good idea to rest one day a week. 4 also seems like a good idea with some caveat's but I do that one out of love not obligation. 5,6,7,8 are great especially in the translation I am using because they are not the simplistic do not lie, do not kill, I try to live by these always. 9,10 are good ideas because no one should be an envious person. It is interesting that in number 10 you are apparently allowed to have slaves and our society did for a long time, but I don't agree with slavery (of course).

Some would go further to define adultery as any sex between unmarried people but that is a completely religious construct. I prefer the more modern secular definition where one partner is breaking their promise of fidelity to the other, in a marriage or not.

Ggirl,

I love it when people say "only 42", like I'm just some fresh young guy.

I'll checkout the book you suggest.

My son was dating a very lovely girl at college who is from a very very strict religious family. Her father is a minister of some sort, I think baptist but I easily forget these kinds of things. She was stuck no abortion, I'm so thankful to her for that, but she cannot face her family. She just wants the whole situation to go away and was going the adoption route. Sam struggled with this but he can't give up his baby, even though we all realize that a new born from two good looking college kids could have a wonderful adoptive family. I'm not sure if the girl will want to come back in a few years or not, she stayed with us over the holidays and really seemed to love the family. She is young and afraid, maybe she will change her mind over time.

Sam, himself, is also a pre-marriage conception and the similarities are not lost on me. I feel alot of guilt because of the hard stuff Sam had to deal with during my xWW's affair and because he hates his mother now. He routinely says things like, "She will never even see this baby". He occasionally calls her bad names but I just say "She is your mother and people in our family don't speak that way." It is difficult.

6,
I was surprised at your age because of everything you have gone through - it just seemed you should be older. I can understand your son's anger. I don't know your X and I don't like her. I don't get how a woman can leave her biological children behind. I think the sad truth is one day something will happen to her and she will regret her decisions and maybe even want to reconnect with her kids (this is where my signature quote comes in).

I'm glad you decided to hold off bringing your LF into your family life. I think that was very wise. I know you like her and why wouldn't you - you are SF'd - the top EN for many men. Learning about your emotional boundaries will help you become a better decision-maker when it comes to your personal life.

GG

GGirl,

In many ways I've done less living. I was just plucked out of the college life and immediately immersed in family life. Then on to raising kids mostly by myself. I'm lucky in that I never really seem to get down or sad for very long because I've just got so much to do.

I'm so excited about the baby, I'm not sure that is normal for a man.

6,
Of course it's normal. Just because your going to be a grandpa - that doesn't change anything about being a man with emotions, does it? With my first born son my H was bouncing off walls - it was funny actually. My neighbors got a kick out of it. I think if one of my children were having a child I would be bouncing off walls. I think it's really great that your son is keeping his child. You (and possibly some credit to your x) did something right there!

GG

GGirl,

I was not so excited about Sam's birth as I am now, probably because I was 21 and was not able to take in the full enormity of the event and I was dealing with getting married and everything else. Now I just get to be excited and all even when people like you use the G word (grandpa - my kids love calling me that, I'm going around town with my teenagers calling me grandpa gabe.)

6,
Maybe you're seeing this as a second chance. I like to think grandkids are a second chance for grandparents to do everything right that they didn't get a chance to do with their own kids. I saw this with my dad. He was not your model dad but man was he great with my kids as their granddad. I like to believe I'm going to be an awesome grandmother some day. Can I ask you a question about raising a teenage son? My son is 17.5 and it seems every week he has a different GF. I've noticed he seems to have lost interest in doing things at home. He seems to be consumed with girls. We've had conversations with him about sex, abstinence and protection, disease, life time responsibiities. Is there anything else we should be doing?

GG

GGirl,

I'm not sure I'm one to be giving the advice. Sam was always quiet and studious, he still is yet he has a very pregnant girlfriend. My girls are consumed with boys and fashion, but they are keeping their grades up and we are having the talks about sex. I mostly emphasize that some of the diseases are forever and it is hard to tell who has them. We have had tons and tons of pregnancy discussions but I'm not sure you want an object lesson like Sam is providing.

If your boy is not doing something physical, as demanding as he can handle, then I think he should. Sam was always a different kid if he was off sports for a few days. He really needed that outlet for energy. My girls do play sports but the deep need does not seem to be there. I think all boys, and probably most girls, would benefit from a structured and demanding martial arts class. My boys love it and my girls go along as well. I'm not sure if they just do it to spend fun time with me but it is a good activity for us as a family.

Here I am sticking my nose in, but I have a D18, and the one thing we've done for about 10 years now, is talk about life AFTER high school. I've taught her that high school is just practice. That after high school comes college, even graduate school, and starting a career. With all that ahead of you, I'd say, why waste time being bogged down with high school events? I talk about how most of the friends she has in high school, she won't ever even see again.

It's done a lot of good in that she is able to step back and look at all the petty stuff in high school as just training, temporary, for the more important things, the time that comes next, as well as the career/life she's going to have for the next 40 years after that!

I think it's had a major effect on her not taking boys seriously like most of her friends, who have met their 'soul mate' or want to die because he left her but then find a new 'soul mate' the next week...

Anyway, he's probably old enough that you should be concentrating on what he's going to do for college - give him a new focus. Sit down and go through college brochures together, or work on scholarships together. Stuff like that.

Cat,
Thanks for the info. Both my teenagers are involved in outside school activities. I did read a book about girls and it stressed that high school should not be the only thing in their lives. I was just concerned because my son has lost interest in some things. He's a Navy Sea Cadet and has always been on the straight and narrow (and predictable). The reason I asked 6 is because I wondered if he would do anything different having had a son who got a girl pregnant.

GG