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To:SMB,tst,KajaAndy & MrJK: I came to this Board knowing it was not going to easy, but I was struggling with my spouse and myelf -looking for direction so that I could live my life completly different and become the man my wife deserves. I came believing I could "dance" but now I am struggling even to walk. And so I re-read all of your posts and I see that my struggle or my shortcomings or my failures with SF comes down to CARE. Care defined means-"concern,burden of thought,serious attention and thought....protection". Prior to DD I did not CARE for SF and now-what I am hearing from all of you is that I still do not care for SF properly. And so, since I do not know how to dance and since I have been unable (to date) to care in the way a loving man should care, I am taking a couple of steps back-I am surrendering-(defined as "giving up or giving of yourself")-giving of myself to our relationship in hopes of finally getting it right. We are going to the MB weekend on the 20th-I am hopeful. I have to learn not only how to care but I have to learn how to give--because I have been a taker so long. I am long overdue in the giving department. Part of caring is being able to give. Perhaps,tst after the weekend and if I am on track -maybe you would consider a "sponsorship" (as suggested)-as I really,really want to learn to dance---and I really want to have that dance with SF.......Thank you all very much.

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Originally Posted by rfwihd1
It was July of 2007 when I decided to partially confess to my affairs. My life was falling apart-I was forced to retire from a job I thought I loved, had a harrassment lawsuit against me,had been in muiltiple long term affairs-some of which I carried on at the same time. I have since learned just how angry,abusive,frightened and
lonely a guy I was who nearly (completely) self destructed at the age 53. I was dishonest,lacked integrity and was spinning out of control.Nearly two years ago, I told my wife of over 30 years of my of my disgusting behaviors over a 30 day period-it took me that long as there were so many-as many as 8-12women-and it was for such a long period of time-nearly 12 years. Had I been stronger, I would have told her all at once-but I couldn't;my affairs involved friends from the neighborhood,woman from work and some she did not know. My unraveling as a human being truly began when I started down the adultrous path over a dozen years ago-but it was not until I lost my job(what I thought was my true identity) that I realized how out of contol and selfish a human being I was.
I lived in a world of false perceptions-meaning I thought I was something I was not. I thought I was funny and entertaining and good company and could dole out good advise--I thought I was a good husband ---I thought I was a good father--in reality I was none of the above; I was a man in the express lane of disaster. Over the years my wife pleaded with me to talk, to go to counselling, to share--I half heartily participated--constantly lying to her,to the therapist as well as myself.
You see it was my weak ego that constantly needed massaging. I needed so badly to be liked and admired and to feel special. And when our children came along-my ego went into another hemosphere-still craving her constant acknowlegment but unwilling to share and be loving and giving and selfless....
This was the time that things at home really began to change. My insatiable ego wanted more and more. I did not understand sharing,helping, giving and doing.-Sure I helped with the children at night and in the middle of the night but I was not giving my spouse ant type of love in return. So what happened? She began to react to my "absence" with angry outbursts,disrespectful judgements and verbal abuses-exactly what my frail ego didn't need or want. I incorrectly believed that I had become the victim-the "poor me guy"-unloved and misundestood. I needed to be appreciated,understood-I needed to feel special. I gave nothing!I withdrew and even felt justified in what I was doing.

HOW WRONG I WAS!!

I now know how wrong I lived my life. I lived my life topsy turvey. I now know how cruel I was and how cruel I could be. I realize how I took advantage of my wife,her spirit, her goodness,her youth. I am now a man filled with remorse, shame and embarrassment. These realizations did not just happen.It has been a process that has occurred over the last two years; about 6 months prior to me loosing my job. I had a "Mr.Scrooge" awakening which occured when my father passed away . I started to see how meaningless my life was, how I failed to have proper boundaries in my life,how shallow I really was and how little importance there was in friends, the crowd,and in adulation...... I began(ever too slowly)to see my many,many shortcomings...my anger,selfishness,my abusiveness as a husband and father,my misguided obessions with work and moving up the ladder....and ALL my terrible, negative relationship habits I learned and practised for so many years.
I want my wife back; She has not thrown me out yet, but she has made it clear she wants a completely new me. She's right and should demand no less. After 8 months of feeling bad for me I finally began to work on the man she wants(its been a year), the man she always wanted and deserves. Now my issues are that I make so many "mess ups " along the way.My need for change is severe and bountiful-but change for me is difficult as I must learn to be kind,caring and loving -placing my spouses' needs first. -Her angry outburst ,the judgements of each and every shortcoming I have followed by verbalizations of just what a looser I am has become relentless. In my heart I can feel and understand (at least)some of her pain-afterall, I caused it. I know if I could just once meet her needs -maybe, just maybe she might start to believe that I am working to rid myself of the disgusting man I once was forever! I am now seeking some guidance and advise .My wife is very bright, beautiful,engaging and protective.She is honest,caring loving and is the model of integrity-she is a wonderful mother as well.... I love her very much and words can not adequately decribe how sorry I am. I present this to you with humility and appreciation.
I am sorry I did not jump in here sooner. I am you, my friend. In the same place. It sounds like you are describing me. We are in our fifth month, and my betrayal was a six year relationship with a woman I met on the internet who was really no more than another whore. And I developed strong feelings for her that I wishfully believed was love. Before that, I used escort services many, many times. I was full of anger and refused to believe that it was me. I also went to counseling and simply did not face that it was my problem and refused to do the work. So, I have a 26 year history of the most disgusting and vile behavior and cruelty to my wife, SSS on this forum. In all respects, I am worse than you are. I feel like a changed person now, but I am not behaving that way. I get horribly depressed when the next wave of anger and sadness envelopes SSS, and as has always been my pattern, I start feeling sorry for myself. When she bursts out, I feel like withdrawing again and have to fight doing that. I realize that I am still thinking about what recovery will do to make life better for us (me) rather than burying my self-focus and devoting 100% of my efforts to helping my wife without concern for me. It is extremely hard to stop feeling sorry for myself and spend all of my time feeling sorry for my wife and devote all my energy to helping her. And yet, that is what I must do. I want to expunge thoughts of myself from me, and it feels like a one-armed man trying cut off his remaining arm using the arm that he is trying to cut off to accomplish that. I am sure that seeking a higher power is the only way to do this. I need help desperately or SSS will pass the turning point and not be able to stay married to me. Many on this forum are urging her to do that, because they see who I am and they are worried for her. And rightfully so. Perhaps we can share feelings and ideas and help each other. Ask the moderator to let me have your email address, and we can perhaps converse off forum.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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rfw,

What's up?

What specifically are YOU doing to meet your wife's top 2 or 3 EN's?

Can you write out on this thread specifically what you're doing each day? I'm not trying to beat up on you (OK maybe a little), but I just want to see it in writing.

At least 15 things each day!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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rfwihd1 Offline OP
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tst: in response to your request:

(1) Need for conversation-(a)* purchase a book on the art of conversation then have flowing conversation w/ leading questions asked;
(b) acknowledge feelings by restating those feelings after they are mentioned to me;
(c) research conversation brforehand and be prepared to discuss it each night.


(2) need for honesty- (a) totally honest and being forthright even w/ unpleasant issues;
(b)*close e-mail address;
(c) discuss 30 minutes each day good things and bad things.

(3)Family committment- (a) take DD up to bed every other night at 10pm and have 10 minutes of conversation w/ her prior to sleep;
(b)2x a week make dinner for family; advise SF in advance what night and what the menu is. Be more participatory in family dinner conversation.
(c) stay in touch with children to ensure their needs are being met at least once each day.

(4)Financial support: (a) *change job so commute does not exceed 1 hour;
(b)Job search 30 minutes each week for job closer to home;
(c)once a week we work on the bills together for 15 minutes
The 5th EN I am uncomfortable discussing here at this time.
I review SF's EN's on Saturday mornings. SF has stated I am not fufilling any of her EN"S each day/each week.

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rfw, I am beginning to see why your BW continues to withdraw from this marriage.

Maybe I can help you understand.

Critical things that I see that MUST happen are:

1. You are LBing your BW and it has got to stop...even IF she LBs you. Most of her LBs are happening because she triggers, and your LBing response is doing extreme damage.

2. You have got to start meeting several of her ENs in MULTIPLE ways EVERY SINGLE day. If she feels you are not meeting them, you need to be doing something different, because what you're doing ain't working.

3. The two of you need to start doing some fun things together that give you SOMETHING to talk about...and I am NOT talking about EXERCISE! Go to some comedy shows or plays or whatever she would enjoy, go to some movies she would enjoy (CHECK THE MOVIE out first because infidelity will trigger her), go bowling, go to a video arcade (HAHA--I'm serious). Find some things that will make you laugh together, be goofy together, relax together, and not think of adultery for a bit. Find some board games you both could enjoy. We like backgammon, scrabble, several card games, and lots of others (I HATE chess). You could even invite your daughter to play along and meet HER needs as well as SF's family commitment need. (as long as you keep a good attitude and make it enjoyable for both of them). You two are going to have to start PLAYING together.

4. Your wife is in the state of withdrawal from this marriage. She is in protection mode because she is her only protection. Therefore, her bank is closed in a sense. But if you stop LBing and learn HOW to meet her ENs and DO SO consistently, she will GRADUALLY come out of it. This will take time, and for awhile you may feel you are not making "progress". She is watching....keep going.

Originally Posted by rfwihd1
(1) Need for conversation-(a)* purchase a book on the art of conversation then have flowing conversation w/ leading questions asked;
(b) acknowledge feelings by restating those feelings after they are mentioned to me;
(c) research conversation brforehand and be prepared to discuss it each night.

OK, this is pretty lame.

I realize now that you only had a couple sessions of MB coaching. Jennifer worked on ENs with us for about 3 weeks. We each came up with a list of 10-20 different things we would like the other to do to meet a particular EN.

You see, I don't believe you really have to take a course in communication to learn how to talk with your spouse (but I admit conversations between tst and I have always come naturally for both of us). It just seems this is made way too complicated. If tst came to me with a list of conversation topics to discuss, I think I'd probably just laugh out loud. I might even fall on the floor laughing. I realize that this may have been suggested to you in MB coaching, but I'm just telling you how that would come across to me.

Why can't the two of you just talk about your day, talk about things that interest you? tst loves listening to me talk about things I am passionate about, and I feel the same about him. We have very different interests. We don't search for something we have in common so much as just enjoy learning about what the other feels and thinks.

Here's how it works for us...

Me: So, how was your day.

tst: not too bad. (then he goes into detail about things that happened, who he talked to, how business is going, new development, etc)

Me: I ask a question or comment a bit about what he said.

Usually, this conversation will lead into another topic...like the slow economy, or someone he talked with, or an upcoming event, etc.

Then he asks me about my day (and he listens). And then same kind of conversation as above takes place again.

And then we may watch a movie or show or read a book aloud and then discuss it.

We might discuss house projects we'd like to do in the future.

tst loves just LISTENING to me talk about my hobbies or about the kids.

We might read something on yahoo and then comment to the other about it and a conversation starts.

I'm going to go over to my EN list in Word documents and cut and paste some ideas for you. I think that will be easiest for me to explain.



Last edited by sexymamabear; 03/15/09 09:24 PM.

Happily married to HerPapaBear



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Here are some ideas for you to ponder as you think of how to meet Sunflower's ENs.


Family Commitment

I love it when you work side by side with a child (or children) on household tasks/projects/chores, using the chore to be a means to spend time with the child. Completing the task is not the main priority, rather spending valuable time with the child is. (examples: mowing the grass while one child rides with you, cleaning the garage together, burning the burn pile in the yard)

I love it when spending time with the children rates second only to our time together.

I love it when you are emotionally available to the children and focus on connecting with them emotionally (example: bringing up conversations that allow them to share their feelings about something—doesn’t have to be a major event—and listen to how the feel.)

I’d love it if you would give the children opportunities to tell you about their day, while you just listen (example: asking them at the dinner table what was good/bad about their day)

I’d love it if you could take 5 minutes with each child everyday to connect with them (example: back rub, read together, talk, cuddle)

I’d love it if we could do read alouds with the family 3-4 times per week (just a chapter at a time).

I’d love it if you would ask to see the children’s schoolwork twice a week; or ask them what they would like to show you (a special writing assignment, history scrapbook page, handwriting, etc.)

I love it when you catch poor behavior in a child and redirect to positive character.

I love it when you seize an opportunity to teach Godly character in a positive way.

I love it when you catch good behavior and compliment the child by specifically pointing out the character quality that child demonstrated (fruits of the spirit, grace, forgiveness, mercy)

I’d love to do a recreational activity as a family once a month (biking, hiking, etc.)

I’d love to have family meetings twice a month where all can share struggles, joys, calendar activities, requests for overnights, etc.

I’d love to sit down with you for ½ hour each week to analyze our parenting and what we need to focus on (character trait we want to develop in a child, struggling area for a child), and strategize how to help our children grow.

I love it when you come home for lunch.

I love it when we have dinner as a family with conversation around the table.


Honesty & Openness

I love when you do things that make me feel connected to you all day.

I love it when you call me in the morning, in the afternoon, and when you head home from work.

I love it when you call me when you are out of the office.

I’d love it if you would share with me your weekly calendar.

I’d love it if we sat down for 20 minutes together each evening, with your arm around me, and tell me:

•What was good, bad, unusual, and/or interesting about your day and why.
•What you have scheduled for the next day.
•Changes that happened to your schedule for the current day.
•New people in your life or people from the past.
•Weekend plans that you may be considering.

I love it when you tell me that you value being honest and open with me or that you want me to know all about you.

I love it when you tell me what your future dreams are.

I love it when you share with me business decisions you are contemplating.

I love it when you tell me your childhood memories, good and bad.


Financial Support (rfw, a note on this EN. It is only in my top list because it is directly related to me being able to stay home and homeschool our children--hence, it ties back to Family Commitment)

I love that you work and encourage me to stay home with the children.

I love it when you show me ways you are providing financially for me long term (life insurance and post nup).

I love that you have provided for all our family’s needs and many wants throughout our marriage.

I’d love it if we did our budget on the Money Map software so that I feel more knowledgeable about where we are financially and can easily complete the task of paying bills on my own.



Conversation (rfw, another note, this EN has a short list for me because tst and I have never had an issue with conversation--it's very natural for us)

(Most of what is on the Honesty & Openness list also fulfills this need.)

I’d love to sit down with you for ½ hour each week to analyze our parenting and what we need to focus on (character trait we want to develop in a child, struggling area for a child), and strategize how to help our children grow. (This is also listed on Family Commitment Need)

I love it when we debate current events in a playful way.

I love it when you tell me about your day (who you talked with, where you went, stresses you faced, funny things that happened, unusual events, etc.)




Happily married to HerPapaBear



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Hello GreenMile: we are here as well. Just checked in. I look forward to meeting you and i will gladly share my e-mail address.

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Originally Posted by rfwihd1
Hello GreenMile: we are here as well. Just checked in. I look forward to meeting you and i will gladly share my e-mail address.

Good meeting you tonight. I'll get your address tomorrow.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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