I really need the edit function back...

People are going to find out just how many typos I really make...

Mark

Roo,

Mark is really giving some great advice. Read and re-read what he is saying. It is quite possible that your H is so far withdrawn that he is scared senseless to even show you the slightest bit of anything right now. He has been cheated on by a number of important women in his life. That beats a person up to the core. I think Mark is dead on in telling you to be the best Roo you can be and do your part. Your H may or may not come around in the end but either way you will be a better person and will be ready for that relationship that you want whether it is with your H or somebody else. Focus on you. Give H everything that you want and expect from your spouse and see where things end up.

Mindshare

Thanks for sticking around Mindshare.

I will re-read Marks posts. My IC and I talked about being the best Roo I can be. She feels so far away. It's true that if I do this I'll be more ready for another relationship if my H and I can't make this work. Focus on me. Focus on ME.

The mantra is....be the best Roo I can be... Be the best Roo I can be.... You can do it!! It is in YOUR best interest!!!

Mindshare

I'm looking for her. Thank you again....

Roo,

I'm going to be gone for a little while going on vacation but when I get back I'm WILL check up on you! Be the best Roo you can be!!! You are worth it!

Mindshare

Roo,

Wazup?

Mark

Hey there Mr. Mark

You know what's up today? I am perplexed. Someone (don't remember who) posted about when to tell your spouse you're unhappy. There's an article somewhere on the MB site about: do you tell them when your needs aren't being met or when they're doing something upsetting. I haven't gotten a chance to read the entire article but I skimmed it and got pretty confused and here's why...

I've been seeing my IC since the beginning of the year (1.5.09 to be exact). We've worked alot on my expectations because I sometimes feel like I get really upset when they aren't met. For months now she's been telling me that I need to get them in check, that I have to learn to lower them so that I'm not disappointed and don't get depressed. So I've been really trying to do that and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I had a conversation with my sister about it and I was confused because what happens when your expectations are so low you become a doormat? That's no good, either. My IC told me that's where I'm supposed to get, though. That I don't have expectations of others, that they will do what they do and that I have to accept them and their actions for what they are.

THEN I see in the article that Dr. H says phooey to that. He says that we SHOULD be expecting things from others. That it's RIGHT and OK (I'm paraphrasing) that we hold our loved ones to a higher standard. That we are right in wanting them to take into account our feelings.

So basically I am perplexed. I don't know what's right. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to accept for me.

I did my best to not smother my H this weekend. I spoke to him late Thursday night and then texted him today about having a drink this coming Thursday and he said that sounded OK and he'd let me know if his plans changed.

Is it totally wrong that I feel confused about us in a different way than he does?

Have you read the giver and taker article?

Roo,

Don't confuse expectations with ENs. They are NOT the same things. It isn't always unmet ENs that cause us to have trouble but unmet expectations always seem to lead to conflict.

Mark

Hi lil - is that the one I talked about above? "When should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem" "?

Roo,

I've found that the difference between the MB stuff and the individual counseling stuff can be confusing and contradictory. I think the common wisdom is that no one can make us happy, we are responsible for our own happiness and in relationships we should never expect the other to change or to have to change for them. I think MB teaches us that we should WANT to change for our marriage, and that what works for the individual does not work for a marriage. If you want to be an individual, go be an individual. If you want your marriage, fight for it. Be the best you there is. You're right that you can't control him. But you can control what you want and what you feel and what you do. It sounds to me like you WANT your marriage, but you're crippled by the guilt and uncertainty and the fear of continued rejection. You should know your husband well enough to know whether or not he's capable of the relationship you want, or at least enough so that you're willing to give it your best shot. If it's just fear of loss or failure that motivate your actions, then those aren't very good reasons. It sounds like your husband is either emotionally related to a log, or he's severely withdrawn. Have you known him to be otherwise? Can you see through the fog to remember the good things in your marriage? One of the deepest truths that has helped me through this is to try to avoid decisions made in fear. My WW treated me horribly during her affair, and even during our false recoveries. But I knew what we HAD was worth fighting for. Are you just concentrating on the negative, or is your husband that unlovable?

I can also tell you that your overwhelming emotions and fear and guilt and anger can be held in check with the right focus and determination. For a BS who is working on a Plan A while the WS is involved in an affair, it takes incredible emotional control and stamina. I didn't even know I had it in me. If I could do it, and keep moving forward though everything told me otherwise, so can you. I don't know if this is the proper advice and I hope others will weigh in, but study up on plan A. Put your Taker aside for awhile and just give to your marriage. What do you have to lose? Think of the rejection he's experiencing knowing of the affair...

One last thing... I think your recognition of your culpability and your expressions of remorse puts you far and above many WS and gives me a lot of hope that you will move forward from this.

(bolding mine)

Yeah, I was really in a strange spot yesterday, wrestling with these concepts and really, I still am a little bit. I KNOW I am capable of changing and am doing what I can right now, ie. IC, talking with a close girl friend, posting/reading here on MB. I really appreciate what I've bolded. It makes so much sense.


Right again. I do feel crippled by these things. It's a struggle to remember that this - whatever it ends up being, a new and better marriage or a period of discovery about me - is a marathon and not a sprint.


I'm digging deep into what I know of him to figure this out. Really, I am.


He would tell you that he feels emotion...happy emotion. He doesn't get "down" like other people do and he's not in touch with those emotions. In twelve years together I've seen him cry one time and that was in reference to finding out that his best friend from high school had slept with his girlfriend. I have a really hard time with him not being able or not wanting to be emotional with me. If I'm honest with myself this is who he is.


My H is a great person. He gives of his things (letting friends borrow tools, offering up our shop for other mechanics to use to make money on the side, etc.) which, in our group of friends has been a wonderful thing for him to do. And I do think he's a loveable man. Perhaps I just want something from a mate/spouse that he is unable or unwilling to give. This is what keeps me up at night.

Not living together and having my H not interested in seeing me is a problem with Plan A. I would be willing to give it a shot, though. I have been calling/texting him random things about us that I think of, or asking him if he'd like to see me. I haven't gotten a phone call or text back. I guess that's part of it though, huh?

Thank you, Zen. My IC said to me last week (paraphrasing), "Roo, you will get through this. If you find a great marriage with H - awesome! If you find yourself divorcing, you'll be better prepared for another relationship down the road. This work that we're doing is for YOU."

Many a BS has to Plan A thru this situation. I had to do it at a distance of 400km! Have you filled in a ENQ for him or got him to fill one? Have you figured out what his top 2 EN's are?

I did send him the ENQ last week. I don't know if he's done it or not. The last time I saw him I asked him what he thought they were and he expressed that he doesn't think he has any.

I heard that from a guy once. He said guys only have 2 EN's, eating and **********.

You have been married to him for a while now, what do YOU think they might be? What has he complained about the most, or asked for the most that you can remember? What seem to make him happiest?

I never would have guessed RC to be Flicks #1, but I guessed all the rest correctly.

If the EN's seem difficult, what about trying something like the 5 love languages: Time, Gifts, Words of Appreiciation, Acts of Service and Touch. They are similar to EN's but somewhat simplified.

Flicks #1 EN is RC, and his LL is Time
MY #EN is Af, and LL is Touch
Basically the same