Hi all!

Don't know if you all remember my story. Some of the old heads around here will, but if you are new and want to catch up and have a couple of hours to kill, here you go.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2107723&page=1

Anyway, here are a couple of questions, one is geared towards what the heck??!? and the other is a question on etiquette.

1. Ok, so about 3 months ago I started a Facebook account to keep in touch with a lot of my flying friends, who are all over the world. Japan, Dubai, etc....

About 3 weeks ago, I get a friend request. Lo and behold, it is the Ex. Huh? We haven't had any form of true communication since December of 2007. What strikes me is, she would had to have specifically searched for me in order to do this.

After sitting on this for a few hours, I decided "What the heck". I am a curious person by nature and wondered what this was all about.
I decided I wasn't going to say hi or anything. If she wanted to, whatever. So, two weeks go by and nothing. Then she deleted me from her friends list (boohoo...not really).

Now, this does not effect me or my life in any way. I don't care if she wants to contact me or whatever. I am beyond that at this point.

But, I do have an interest into the why she did that (because I have an interest in what motivates people, not her specifically). Anyone have any theories?

The second question is I just found out a friend ours just passed away from cancer. He was a former flight student of mine, but would we would all often hang out together. I lost contact with him right before the divorce, so he didn't even know what happened. But, he was a friend of both of us. Should I let her know?

Aside from all that, I am doing good. I am still with the same girlfriend and we have been seeing each other for 18 months. We are taking the plunge and moving in together in about two weeks! Pretty cool!!!

More important question why would you care to find out what XWW motivates herand what motivates you find an excuse to contact XWW? So a man died, if it was important for XWW to know this man's family would of told XWW.

timeout to edit is to short

Great to hear from you Dog!

Regret? Remorse? Her idylic affair has imploded? Who cares!

Good luck to you.

Hi Food! Long time no see!

On your questions about the ex...(1) Who knows why...If I were you, I'd not give it a second thought and (2) Nah, I wouldn't let her know...let sleeping dogs lie...

On to another portion of your post though:


Moving in together is a mistake...That is a RENTER relationship...You are setting yourself up for failure by doing that...Read here about what Dr. Harley says regarding living together before marriage and why it's a bad plan...You'd be wise to get and read the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders by Dr. Harley.

If you want to live with your girlfriend, why not get married first?

Mrs. W

Take a look at this:

link to entire Dr Harley quote

If you're in a good relationship with your GF, why would you have 'friended' your ex? Do you guys have kids together? If not, contacting an old flame is a BIG no-no!

I agree, you and GF should read the book Mrs. W. suggested before you think about moving in together. BOTH of you read it, and discuss it.

Ok, well. thanks for not answering my questions. Especially the second one.

I don't get the reading comprehension over here. Did anyone here actually READ what I wrote? Why can't anyone here answer the freakin' questiion? It gets frustrating.

As to getting married? Forget that. I won't do that again. To me, it is just a legal contract. And if it ends, not as messy than with a marriage. I am also not a very religious person, so bear that in mind when talking about marriage with me.
Ya'll take care.

If you want to tell her about your mutual friend - why not?

Remember Dr Harley's prnciples are not only for the religious too Dog. You are settling for a renter relationship. Your call. Perhaps you should lose the attitude too - no one here is obligated to post to you and being rude to people trying to help will not behoove you.

Peace. Out.

1) XW is bored, not gettin' any, jobless ... who cares

2) If you are serious about GF there is no need to see or talk to her. I'm sure GF would not approve of any contact.

DF,

Glad to see you back. Glad to know things are going well.

I'm sure she was just testing the waters and wondering if you were going to write her and see how she was and if you were still hurting over her.

On another note:

DF, please, please, please don't make the mistake of living with a woman as a "rental" agreement. I know marriage burned you, but living together is a dangerous thing and the stats support that.

Will your GF eventually want marriage? That's a big question.

What about kids?

Your rights as a dad are more secure as a married man than one not married. Just think about it.

My arguments for not living together have nothing to do with religion. It's about the idea of "try before you buy".

Just chew on it.

I'll wish you luck otherwise with your girlfriend.

Telling ExW about friend implies you still have emotional attachment to your ExW. So I say leave it alone. Will her knowing about the death affect her life in anyway? No.

Hey Dogfood, I have average reading comprehension skills, but only wanted to respond to your upcoming plans to live with your girlfriend. Marriages that start out by living together have an astronomical divorce rate, and that is because living together creates a mindset that is ruinous to marriage. The divorce rate for couples who live together first is 85%:

"The Buyer and the Renter

In my Q&A column, Living Together Before Marriage, I described two approaches to marital conflict: The approach of the Buyer and the approach of the Renter. To help you understand why it may be difficult for you to complain to your spouse as soon as problem arises, I return to that analogy.

When a couple live together before marriage, they tend to be "renters." By that I mean that they view their relationship much as they would renting an apartment. If something goes wrong in an apartment, the landlord is expected to fix it -- if it needs paint, the landlord paints it; if it needs repairs, the landlord does the repairing. In other words, the renter is not responsible for making the apartment suitable for living -- the landlord is responsible. And if the apartment is not repaired, the tenant isn't expected to fix the apartment himself, he simply moves to another apartment if he doesn't like the one he is renting.

In the same way, couples who live together before marriage do not expect to make many changes to accommodate their lovers. The relationship is a test of how "livable" their relationship is, and if they were to find it uncomfortable, or if one were to complain much, it would mean that they would not be right for each other.

Those who live together before marriage tend to ignore conflicts until they become intensely negative. That's why these relationships are notoriously abusive (as reported in a recent Justice Department study on domestic abuse). If these couples eventually marry, they carry their renter's agreement into marriage, with the same tendency to ignore conflicts until they build up. Since the renter's agreement does not promote healthy adjustment in marriage, or the sustaining of romantic love -- the vast majority of these marriages end in divorce.

On the other hand, when couples marry before they live together, they tend to be "buyers." Much like buying a house, these couples realize that if anything needs fixing, they will have to fix it -- the sooner, the better. Their marriage is not a test of how livable their relationship is, but rather, it's a commitment to make their relationship livable. That means that when a problem first surfaces, they go right to work fixing it, knowing that if they don't fix it soon, it can lead to an even bigger problem later.

This is where my approach to building love in marriage makes a crucial point -- unless you and your spouse build your lifestyle together like a buyer, where you change your own behavior to make each other happy and avoid making each other unhappy, you will destroy the love you once had for each other. The buyer's approach to a relationship helps sustain the feeling of love because each spouse changes his or her own behavior to meet each other's needs and avoid hurting each other. The renter's approach, on the other hand, expects the other person to accept one's behavior as it is, and that, in turn, leads to a loss of love and eventual divorce."

Guessing about another person's motivations is like trying to catch the wind but here goes... maybe she just wanted to be a "friend" long enough to see what you were up to.


No.

To answer the unasked question about moving in with your girlfriend.

Bad idea. See everyone else's posts to you about "Renters and Buyers".

As to your questions, I think she was just checking up on you. She had access long enough to figure out who you were in contact with and a general idea of how your life is. Then she deleted you either to prevent you from doing the same, or to "hide" the fact she was checking up on you from someone else. Either way, it doesn't matter.

Question 2: I wouldn't bother. She'll find out on her own.

As to the buyer/renter thing, I for one understand perfectly where you are coming from. I will never marry again but I would definitely consider living with someone - and I HAVE read the book and I DO buy into the concepts. The thing is, the marriage contract that is offered in my jurisdiction (no-fault state) does not match my own personal definition of marriage which, though I'm not religious myself, aligns better with the religious concept. Or perhaps the fairy tale concept. In any event, that type of marriage is not available to me, and what is available is not a reasonable substitute. Therefore, should I choose to have a committed relationship with someone again, we will live together - not before marriage, but instead of marriage.

Some day I'll be able to put these thoughts better into words so they make sense here.

Hey DF,

Let me try to answer your question for you...

What does it mean that your exWW has acted in this ambiguous way regarding whther or not she might be looking to reconnect?

It means YOU aren't ready to move on and begin another relationship. Coupled with not feeling like you will ever be ready to get married again it means you are not over your wife. You had to wonder about her intentions and motives for what she did and THAT means you still think of her and wonder if it is really done. At the same time you are unwilling to commit to someone new. Together they mean you have not yet moved on completely and you are still trying to find your place in life, as DF and who and what you will become.

Once you have those answers, you will no longer care what your xWW does or says or thinks. And once you have healed from the betrayal and really want a new relationship with someone else, you will be able to commit to being a buyer and not merely a renter because only a buyer/buyer relationship is for the long term. Until then, you are just using each other to get your needs met, sort of like an affair...

Wait; did I just come to the same point that others already did?

I wonder how that happened...

Other than getting beat up by your friends, how have you been?

Mark

Food!!

Glad 2 hear you're doing well!

I agree with other posters who don't think you should respond 2 your xW's probings. It probably would have been better if you hadn't "friended" her at all, but now that you have, will you at least tell your GF that you did so and why? I hope it's important eough 2 you how she feels about that, that you'd be honest with her that you did it.

As for renting versus buying. How 'bout a lease? Perhaps with penalties if you rack up 2 many miles in a year?

Sorry about that, but after reading the analogies made between marriage and homeownership, I'm just... ...flabbergasted, and it takes a lot 2 gast my flabber.

A better comparison would be between adolescence and ma2rity - not physical ma2rity but emotional/spiri2al ma2urity, which equals responsibility and integrity.

If you're ma2re, your GF will never have 2 worry whether you're renting her or not, whether you marry or not.

-ol' 2long

DF,

I'm glad to hear you are doing well. Again, I'd like to reiterate that you shouldn't contact your ex. Just ignore her.

Secondly, I'm concerned about your view on relationships and marriage. I understand you got burned the first time you got married, but your current attitude and views toward marriage will pretty much guarantee that your new relationship will not last. I would hope that you learned some things here about what went wrong in your previous relationship, and how to do things right this time. Avoiding commitment to avoid getting hurt again is not the answer. Please take Dr. Harley's principles and apply them to your relationship, and things can be different this time.

I wish you the best.

Let her know. It will be a good reminder to keep a short list with the people in her life, say.....Like you.