I might have been tempted to record one of the OW's diatribes, then play it back for your H. Might help to clear the fog a bit faster...

I'm new at this stealth stuff...how could I record her if I got her on the phone? I know in person that I could tape record...damn! Wish WH would just spill all the beans so we could move on!

Please don't get into that trap. My FWS said that the OW's H was abusive and he was afraid for her. After NC for a while that was the excuse. Turns out I got to know the OW's H and nothing could be further from the truth. I think he just used that excuse to see if she was ok. ( Actually she made all that stuff up in the beginning and my FWS knows none of it was true). I really really thought we were in recovery and about 8 weeks later I came home from a friends house and he started with that very familiar "fog" dialogue. Do anything you can to guard against this . . . You don't want to go into "round" 2 do you?

estefania, one way you can get the truth is to line up a polygraph test. This would give him an opportunity to clear his good name and get it all out on the table. That way, you can relax and he can be vindicated. I would approach it by telling you need assurance of getting the full truth in order to move forward and recover.

Getting the truth is the first step, until that happens, this train is not moving. The next step is to REPAIR the marriage and ensure this doesn't happen again.

Good idea on lining up the PI! I would also put a tap on your phone, access his cell phone bill, put a recorder in his car, a GPS on his car and put a keylogger on his computer, all that apply.

But first, get the truth and give him an opportunity to clear his good name by lining up a polygraph test.

p.s. your H is lying about non physical aspect of the affair. That is not even a good lie.

OW is beyond pathetic - 2 year old illegitimate kid, no job, no high school diploma, nothing going for her other than a pair of you-know-whats....don't know if that makes it easier or harder . . . .

I tried to read all of your posts . . . Are you sure that her 2 year old is not his?

Hi Estefania,
It does seem we have a lot in common. Especially the time frame, WH past indescressions, ages and kids ages etc. Not only that but the way we seem to be dealing with the situation.

My WH didn't recognise the EA as part of the affair, he only thought the PA was an actual A. Not until some time after Dday, did he understand that the EA was what he recognised as getting close, and opening the possibility of a PA. I'm still not sure that he would classify the EA as an A.

I would have to agree, that I find it hard to believe that it wasn't physical as well with your WH. Did you see other signs that might suggest it was physical? My WH had been loosing weight, our sex life was miserable ... I've also read that they could become more adventurous or different in some way. My WH was taking showers at OW's house afterwards, but I didn't notice.

yes I'm sure it's not his - her BF demanded a paternity test (gee, is there a pattern here or what?) and it is definitely the BF's kid

I've talked to the BF - he dropped the d-day this time...he's not exactly trustworthy BUT so far HE hasn't lied to me! He says he's not sure about a PA - I did make FWH get an std test and he was clean...we had it out yesterday pm about PA vs. EA and he says he's not going to admit to something that did not happen...continues to say that the relationship was more similar to a father/daughter than BF/GF (there is a 22 year age difference) aghhh! I'm just wavering all the time between "we're doing good, moving on" and "that sob is still lying to me!"

What do you meen by BF dropped the Dday? I don´t understand ...
Maybe it would be good to just assume that is was PA, and not badger about it, like someone suggested. He has admitted that it is/was an inapropriate relationship, hasn´t he?

I think emotionally it is important to know if it was an EA. When I first found out that my H was "flirting" with someone he denied, denied, denied anything happened and agreed to not speak with the OW. I kept saying to him . . ."if that's all there is then I can handle it . . .but I think that I am only getting 50%?" . . .I started digging into e-mails, credit cards
office phone bill and there it all was. The tone and content of the e-mails as well as flower purchases, length of phone calls ect. I saw the message he sent with the flowers. . . it became disturbingly clear that he was lying to me. He was very convincing though . . . crying and carrying on . . .there had to be more. There certainly was . . . He was afraid of what the OW's H would do also.

E:

OW ALWAYS need saving. Men WANT to be the "white knight"

What man would rather be John Wayne than Homer Simpson?

Was it a PA? Sure it was. Why else would he sign for a car loan. What else did he tie up in financial resources?

Your WH independent behaviors got him to this point. Never, EVER should one party in a marriage obligate both of them with out the other parties "enthusiastic agreement" Please read His Needs, Her Needs for that info.

I hope you have "Surviving an Affair" and have read it cover to cover....If not, order it from this website today.

Now, about you and OW. OW "just needs some support" and your Husband in kind and caring. You, on the other hand, take care of business. What can your husband see in such a loser? There, in those four lines is what you need to know to start fixing this.

And that means you have to make yourself "need" your husband. Are you "taking care of business" and disregarding your H feelings/ideas/concerns about those same things? And it doesn't matter the subject. Taking care of the house, the children, relationship with other couples, the car, money, the household, the laundry, etc.

Can your husband have an opinion about some of these issues that has been ignored and minimized over the years. Sure, you are RIGHT about these things, but would you rather be RIGHT, or married?

His Needs, Her Needs will open your eyes up to this dynamic in a marriage. It did to ours. Surviving an Affair was invaluable to my BS in seeing a way to recovery.

And, you deserve the truth. If your WH was having an EA, its just as bad as a PA. But if he never admits to the true breadth and scope of the affair, then recovery will be permanently stalled.....

LG

the boyfriend called and told me that he saw them together - what I call the 3rd d-day...perhaps you're right about just assumming that it was a PA and go from there...it's just that I can probably imagine worse than what really happened and I have a very active imagination!
Is this just one of those things that only time can take care of or what?

NotSure...men don't seem to understand that intimacy is not just sex...the sex is almost secondary to the betrayal of trust

golfer...I don't mean to sound as if I had no part in the A happening - I am very independent and we have been talking a lot about how that independence made him feel as if he wasn't needed. We have both allowed ourselves to pursue our own interests individually over the years and that has created too much space between us as well. I am in the process of reading SAA and we've both done an emotional needs survey - it's pretty slow going - he hates to read, but the last d-day I insisted that we need outside help. I originally scheduled an appt with MC, but found this website and started reading - he wanted to work through this program instead of MC, so I compromised. I think the problem right now is that he wants to pick and choose what MB advice to follow rather than going by the book - I'll admit to the same - I haven't fully exposed the A to his family. I just want this recovery to "take" there have been three d-days (or two NC broken) and I'm wanting the third time to be the charm, but I don't want to be hurt again!!

So the contact continues . . .? Therein lies the problem. He's in deep with her and it has to stop.

ocean as far as I know there has been NC since March 5 - last d-day was March 3. I know he's been in deep - 4 years is a long time

E - I know where you are and it is so hurtful. Knocks the wind right out of your sails! You're probably consumed with all of this . . . try Yoga it really helps with racing thoughts. Just a suggestion. Peace!

okay, so I've had a really hard time the past two days - cannot stop thinking about "was is a PA?" I'm even to the point where I'm thinking about contacting OW to ask her what really happened even though I know she'll use it as a chance to torture me further...who do I believe?? Am getting more and more worried that the talking, spending time together, sex that has been going so well is just a false recovery! Help veterans!

E,

Reread the advice given on your thread.

What advice, so far, have you done?

Could you update please.