Yeah - all those years trying to manage the outcome for my alcoholic husband taught me a thing or three

((( hugs ))) to committed

"Yeah - all those years trying to manage the outcome for my alcoholic husband taught me a thing or three"

This site benefits from you sharing your story, along with all your trials and tribulations.

I have noticed that more and more people are posting with 'marriage' problems that are really cloaked under 'substance' problems.

A few well versed questions to them brings out information concerning alcohol, drugs, or a combination thereof.

Or...is it simply my imagination?

Thanks for the (((hugs))). Same to you....as my Daddy used to say when we told him that we loved him. Kinda like that "Ditto" thing from the movie "Ghost".

committed

Seems simple, but for most of us it's actually very difficult to know what our true feelings are.

Human beings are very good at avoiding thoughts and insights that might take them into an uncomfortable place a few steps down the line.

Working out our real feelings is a skill that has to be learned, I think.

TA

This is an awesome thread about principles that have changed my marriage. Namely the principle of radical honesty and its importance to POJA. I can see in my last marriage how I complained OFTEN in a way that killed the love in my marriage with chronic lovebusters. I had the right idea, but the wrong delivery.

In this marriage I initially went to the opposite extreme where I sucked up my grievances, which resulted in resentments. I have since learned - from around here - what a huge mistake that was. I can see how that tactic was eroding the love I had for my H and causing me to avoid him.

I have since learned how to present complaints in a non-busting manner and my H is very receptive to this. He does his best to make changes. I am not good at recieving complaints, though, and get mad at him sometimes. I am thinking on this....

Great thread, Pep. I hope everyone here GETS this concept, because it really does define the difference between Dr. Harley and other marriage counselors. Dr. Harley knows how to save marriages. This is why MC have an 84% failure rate.

This might be one of the reasons for high marriages failure when couples under agfe 25 marry.

Having said that, getting back to the original Harley article ....

Do you think that it is not so complicated to say "You do this (whatever-it-is) and I don't like it. It makes me feel terrible when you do this (whatever-it-is).

I really do not think it takes all that much insight to declaie what feels bad to a person. Heck, as soon as kids can talk they start doing just exactly that !

still no edit feature - spelling Nazi's everywhere are having heart attacks!

These are some interesting examples. I want to think a bit before I reply in earnest. But I do want to reply. Mostly on what it means to be an enabler. And when one should carry something, anything, at all.

While you are gnashing your brain on that - please consider thinking about this as well (I'm still not sure where I am going with this one)

Thought the First:

Duhh

Err

Ummm

Dang. It was here a second ago…



Oh, yeah, right …

Dr H has a great deal of heartburn with the concept of Unconditional Love. Yet love as a verb is what UL and meeting ENs no matter what is all about.

Is that the same as sacrifice at some level?

UL does indeed have at its core not being an enabler. Knowing when to step back. You are supposed to UL yourself too.

What is the difference between UL as anti-MB and meeting ENs even when you don’t want to?

‘scuse me while I wipe up some drool…

The part that my H does not get is the LB. He thinks "solving problems" is the key to facilitating marriage recovery. <This is not only his idea, but what we learned at MC.>
This is a good thought, but does not make me feel like I love him any more.

I sent him this article, I hope he reads it and something sinks in.
I like DrH's view on love building- any two people can problem solve, that does not a marriage make.

My wife continues to say "It's not my job to make you happy" or "My sole purpose in life is not to conform to what you want me to be" or "Nothing I do can heal you. That's between you and God."

It is difficult to find books, material or counselors (outside of Marriage Builders)who disagree with her.

Hmmm. A kid says "My friend won't play with me after school. She's stuck up and I don't like her." What she really means is that the friend has a new puppy and she's jealous of the attention the pet is getting.

A wife says "My husband is a big show-off at parties and I feel embarrassed. I think he drinks too much in those situations." Might be true, but might also be that she's jealous of her husband's social easiness and popularity.

Feeling bad doesn't automatically imply that the other is at fault. A lot of self-honesty is needed, don't you think?

Are you saying that you disagree with the quoted article? Or, you disagree with parts of it that require honesty and self awareness of married adults?

I'm unclear what point you are making.

Thanks

I have read this book 3 times and do not agree at at with what Dr. Harley has said here. I actually find Dr. Hendrix's stuff to be very much in line with Marriage Builders.

Why do you have to fill out an EN questionaire instead of them all being the same? This is what I feel Dr. Hendrix seeks to explain.

A huge downside is that it does not deal near as well as MB in infadelity.

As with most things I find good and bad with every theory.

In summary, I like both ways of thinking equally and do not really feel they conflict very much at all.

I’m still masticating on this one, but I have an initial observation to spit out:

Applying Christian mores to marriage is a bit broad. There are quite a few differences across the spectrum of Christian denominations in how marriage is viewed. On the left some view it as fairly secular – marriage is a just a particular kind of contract. Others on the other end view it as a holy sacrament that binds for life and is not to be tampered with nor interpreted in any alternative way whatsoever.


I think we all suffer to one degree or another at the hands of our spouse. Have you suffered at all for your H? During recovery perhaps? How about while he was treating you rotten during his active adultery, but you didn’t yet know what was going on?

All kinds of people sufferer all the time at the hands of all kinds of other people. What is so different about spouses? Other than you perhaps least expect it - until that first adultery anyway.

Thanks rusty !

As Ronald Reagan said to Jimmy Carter ... "There you go again" ....

I am asking these questions because it is important to me and my personal interior work. I am not trying to make a point or convince anyone of anything.
I am asking YOU, as a practicing Christian for whom I have a lot of respect, how you reconcile this idea of suffering as the epitome of love into YOUR life. Not as a debate exercise, but as a matter of personal living.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son"



I don't want "the spectrum", I want your point of view - either fixed or still a work in progress.


This is veering too far from my question .... FOCUS man, focus!



Does love = suffering for you as a Christian?


[sarcasm] Really ? I never knew that ! >slaps forehead< [/sarcasm]


Stop wandering around and answer my question, please.

Just call me the Squirminator.

I am not purposely scurrying away from the light of plain answers. I am exploring the parameters of the question.

But if you need an instant answer, it is: maybe.

-----
OK, here. As a practicing Catholic, my answer to your meaning of marriage question is: I, myself, to my own detriment and long-suffering, am pretty far to the right end of the spectrum. Christian marriage is a lifetime sacrament between a man, a woman and God. Sometimes a divorce is a wise choice for protection of children or self. But the sacrament does not “go away” with a civil divorce.

I have strenuously argued changing this point of view with God quite a bit and for a long time now. So much so we are on first names basis. But He won’t give in.

So, perhaps, maybe, it boils down to: Where do I belong, where do I want to be, on this spectrum?

Sinner (all taker) ------------------------------------------ Saint (but not necessarily all giver)

A question for you: How are the questions I grapple with going to help your marriage?

donno yet

This is how I work my stuff out.
When I read something that interests me I like to post about it (like the Harley article). I ask others to give their opinions, then I cherry pick what works for me.