Bah! She is busy playing tour guide madge (no not barbie she isn't blonde). Which she is excellent at btw! I am sure she will be back eventually.

Yoo hoo! Tour Guide Madge? Over here... in MB land. How are you? Update please?

Ok Hope just went home this morning and I have been taking care of lots of stuff I have put off during the last 2 weeks. I have been a tour guide of Southern California. I had lots of fun with Lil doggie and Flick and lots of fun with Hope. I am pooped! Hope will have to tell you all the fun stuff I had her doing!

Ok I'm going to bed.....

Hey been talking to a recovered MB'er that i have never spoken to before. He recommended a thread. Could some one tell me how to find it or if anyone has heard of it. Every time I try and search for a thread It never works right. I think the poster's name is Lost in VA or something like that.

Well, I am back! going over to post at my sitch.
Got to say that T2L rocks! My D15 loves her and her family. This kid did not want to go home. Gee I didn't want to go home.
T2L give Ricky a kiss form me. I am sure he is pining for me. (should I mention it is a dog????)

I'mmm back...

you turned that little dog into such a whore....sorry but I miss Shi shi.....I still wanna take her home...I love me a BIG dog.

take that beautiful big dog home and train him for a week. He is a great dog...but me and Ricky bonded! lol

Well, Miss T2L, I'm hearing many rumors about what a wonderful time everyone had with you! Want more details, and did anyone have time to take pictures?

Hi Believer, I have a few more details in my sitch. Pictures??? hhhmmm did I hear my space

T2L, Come out, come out, where ever you are.

Ready to chat???

I WANNA HEAR ABOUT THE FUN!

Talk about a DARK plan B!
The woman is invisible.

Ok guys sorry took me sooo long I was so totally exhausted after company and I had am selling my home to so I have been really busy showing the house and talking with Realtors.

Well had lots of fun with Lildoggie and Flick. Took them to Hollywood sign, Hollywood walk of fame and to Disneyland. It was great fun learning about New Zealand! And really I could listen to them talk forever, I love the accent! They are really beautiful people. WE got to go over and have dinner with Chrys and Chewie and that was a lot of fun too and she is a fabulous cook and hostess!

Then 2 days later Hope arrived. I took her and DD15 to Hollywood sign, walk of fame and Universal City walk which is just outside the Universal Studios theme park. That night the ever lovely SIHW met us there and we all had dinner and me and a friend rode the mechanical bull. Yes I got bucked LOL! SIHW bought Hope and I a tshirt there that they were selling and oddly enough it said "Cheaters will be shot"! so thats what I wore riding the bull LOLOLOLOL Goodtimes!

During Hopes visit, we went to Santa Monica Pier, then the kids went to Venice Beach, We did Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills and took tons of pictures!

We also went and me Holyheart, who is the sweetest ever, and now is converting to a HOT momma! LOL It was great meeting her and all of us talking. You felt like you were with family.

So while Hope was here, we changed her hair color and style. I took her and her daughter to get a mystic tan and I drug my lil friend Hope to Fredericks for a bra shopping spree to treat and pamper herself especially since she lost so much weight on the lovely infidelity diet.

I had the best 2 and 1/2 weeks.

So I may try to update as much as possible but my home has to be sold really fast on a short sale. Had to short sale because partially the A and partially because H's job is related to housing market and we took a 30K hit in pay. I'm sure it didn't help with him sharing rent at the barf shack. But I saw the W-2 myself so I know how much we lost just because of the economy. I am sad but hasn't set in as I have been so busy trying to work with realtors and lenders and trying to find a new place to live as well.

So as far as other stuff. Still really trying to find out what it is I need to do for me. I have read some stuff on Lostinva's thread. ITs really good. I was forwarded a post of hers. I think I will post it. It's making me question things. I mean not Dr. Harley or the book, mostly about timing of Plan A and Plan B. I have been told off line by a poster who was here in 1999 that Plan B was only implemented in extreme cases, like a nasty divorce or if the scenario was nasty with a WS. Anyways I'm not in a Plan A or Plan B. Its been a bit difficult with having to work with my realtors. They needed H and I to sign at same time so they could list the house. IT has to be rushed because there is an auction sale date in 2 weeks and If I dont work fast to find a buyer it will sell under us. If I get a short sale it will give me at least close to 2 months to find a place.

So that's my update and I didn't wanna Plan B Y'all. Just lots of visitors and stuff.

So how are y'all doin?????

Wow, T2L -- you have been super busy and lots of news to share!

I am interested in this other thread you mentioned -- not that I want to second guess Plan B, but it would be helpful to see what you have recently gained some new insights and strength from. We are all always learning!!

Take care!
BF439

OK her thread is LOSTVA....I'm posting some stuff that was emailed to me below...not sure on protocol but her name is LOSTVA and here is a post that was sent to me below. Apparently she never went into a Plan B......




Hi, Missy!
OH, TNT, I do love you!!!

Ok, so you guys do realize that I tend to get wordy and talk WAYYYYY too much and you STILL want me to do this, right? I'm gonna touch on a lotta stuff here. I'd shied away from posting lately, but I've actually been ASKED my opinion!! You guys don't know what a mind-field you've set off here!!

Now, I'm not particularly wise and wonderful, but I can share with you my experiences and feelings, but that's all. And sometimes those feelings don't follow the norm, so be forewarned.

OK, history first, I guess. One Monday, last spring, Robert walked in after work. He leaned over to kiss me and I said "Hi, Honey, I love you." He said, "Hi. I love you, too, but not like I used to - we need to talk." That was my last kiss. And the night of the "I love you but not IN love with you stuff." Also the last "I love you" in any form.

Within a week, he didn't love me at all, couldn't stand the sight of me, our marriage had been a mistake and he wished he had never married me. Knew our relationship had been a mistake since the beginning (TEN YEARS???) and it never should have happened. Kristin didn't care for him at all and never would. His family couldn't stand us and we had ruined his life. He couldn't count the number of times he had wished I had been in an accident and died so that he could be released from these "pits of hell". We had NEVER had a good time, never really cared for each other like we should - he couldn't even remember the fun times. And on and on....All this was news to me! We were the couple that most people envied! We had had a hard couple of years, Mom's cancer, Papa's death, but I had NO idea. I wanted to die.

THEN, he told me about PT. She made him feel WONDERFUL. He finally knew what true love really was and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. He adored her 3 year old and she loved him. I had NEVER made him feel this way, we were never meant to be, etc......you know the stuff, right? The knife turned. We've all been there.

So, I came here and lurked. And cried. And couldn't sleep, 30 pounds in 30 days, all the standard stuff. One month later, he left to be with her.

When he left, I didn't know where he was. He didn't contact us, not even Kristin. He spent some time visiting his mom, but eventually, cut away from them as well. She was my greatest strength through this mess. Now, don't get me wrong, she welcomed PT into her home, the whole family did. They were afraid they'd lose Robert if they didn't. His sister called me and told me that Robert was finally happy and I should "move on". (Man, I hate those words, what DO they really mean???) But Mom called me daily once she found out what was going on and tried to spy as much as possible. We've gotten closer than I ever imagined we could be.

PT and Robert set up house. He already had her moved into a new place b/f he left. They opened joint bank accounts, he brought her HERE when I wasn't here to get some of his things, set her up with OUR doctor (she supposedly didn't have one), took her all around OUR town (they lived an hour away) as his girlfriend. Told everyone he ran into that we were through. In VA, you have to be separated for 6 months to get divorced and he said as soon as that time was over, we were done. Taught Leah to call him "Daddy". (That hurt worse than ANYTHING, believe it or not.) No financial support whatsoever. Took two vehicles so PT could have one. He called infrequently - when he needed something (until the last month), came by rarely, usually to pick up something or hunt. Didn't give me his address or phone number. Was cold and mean to me - wouldn't talk to Kristin at all hardly (except for once or twice during the whole time.) He was someone I didn't even know.

The first time I posted here, Deb responded first...."You'll be ok, you CAN get through this, there are things you can do." Ok, so there was NO way she could know..I mean, she could NEVER have hurt like I did, loved like I did, been treated as horribly as I was. Ok, I was wrong. She DID know! And she was right - so was everyone else.

I owe my friends here my life. They calmed me down. Showed me I wasn't alone. Cried with me, took deep breaths with me, got me through way too many sleepless nights, laughed with me, and kicked me in the butt and outta feeling sorry for myself when I needed it. I think that was the most important thing of all. And helped me find something to laugh at in the midst of all this mess. I soon discovered I was looking forward to waking every morning.

So, like she said, the rawness eased - the hurt found it's place, continuous sorta, but in it's place. I started paying attention to what people were trying to teach me, got rid of my stubborness and self-righeousness. Ordered books, read, read, read! And started thinking.

You know, Robert couldn't come up with one specific thing about me as a wife that was bad. Even said so himself. But, once I got rid of the old ideas and opened my mind, I COULD!!! I mean, I had worked my butt off to be a good wife, but..... You've heard me say before that he broke the vow of fidelity, but I broke a lot of them too - unknowingly. I wasn't the best PERSON I could be and therefore, not the best wife either.

And I thought about him too. I'd known this man for fifteen years - through good times and what I THOUGHT were bad times (this mess sorta changes your perspective!! ) This was not him...to abandon us, leave us to starve. He and Kristin were "joined at the hip". To say now that he never really loved her, just cared for her? Something was definitely not right. This was NOT him....not from my experience, or that of his family and friends (who he had now begun to turn his back on.) Sooo.....

Well, after reading a few books on the nature of affairs, looking realistically at my contributions to the state of our marriage, listening to my betrayer friends on this site, I started to understand. It took away the sting of his words and actions. Didn't erase it - just took the edge off. Through Harley's books and others, I learned about marriages and affairs. From Phil McGraw, I learned about myself. I was insatiable. My basic personality is to DO something. Now, I had a bit of understanding, AND something I could do! I got stronger and stronger. Sure, there were bad days. Thanksgiving and New Years come to mind, as well as one notable weekend w/ two LB letters. (BTW, I found out that he was thinking hard about coming home at that point and my letters talked him right out of it! The power of a LB!! I'm glad - I wasn't where I needed to be yet!) As I grew stronger, I felt freer. I realized that I had the power. He didn't keep me going, I realized it was up to me to do that, and to keep HIM going, too! Even though he didn't know it.

First decision. Do I love my husband? Yup, more than life itself - not the things he's doing now, but the man he truly is inside. Second. Do I want my marriage back? Nope - but I want a better one. Third - Am I ready to work for it? Absolutely!! I asked myself these three questions every single day. Every morning, before I got out of bed, I asked myself these questions. Same answer.

So I loved him. And respected and believed in the man I KNEW was inside. I learned to look PAST this behavior and into the soul of the man that I was convinced was still there. And tried to understand the torture he was going through - even though he didn't THINK he was. I knew now, right? I took the good little signs and they sustained my love. I blew off the bad stuff as part of the addiction. So it wouldn't KILL my love. I believed in him and lit a candle (still do, for us and all my friends) and every time I passed it, I told him I loved him and I believed in him. The coolest part was I was also beginning to believe in ME!! TNT taught me that, the power of words and belief.

Since I couldn't talk to him, I wrote a letter to him once a week and sent it to his mom's. Pop would deliver it to work for me. They were light, funny, flirty, news from home - like he was away from camp and homesick!! Works of art that I worked hard on at first, then seemed to come more easily. Somewhere in each letter, when appropriate, I compared something that I was telling him with a good memory of ours (and then this happened and you know it was just like when we....)and laughed about it. I ended each one with "I love you and I will always believe in you." I never took off my rings. He commented on that once - asked why I was wearing them - really angry sounding. I told him I loved him, I was married to him and I would always be married to him in my heart. He looked annoyed at first, looked like he was gonna yell at me and then got quiet for a minute. Then, with a strange look on his face, he said quietly "Thank you, Lori." I laughed and flirted when I saw him. Once or twice, I teared up, but not often. I saved that for when I was alone. At the end of each of the few visits, I hugged him goodbye and said "I love you." I got nothing except "You DO know I'm getting a divorce and marrying PT - no matter what. And even if I didn't marry her, I'll never come back." I just told him to do what he needed to do, but I'd always love him. I never discussed PT with him, never mentioned her name. I never discussed us or our marriage. If he brought it up, I'd just say I loved him and I wanted what would make him happy. No more. He'd just look at me like I had lost my mind.

At first it was "pretending". But I was working on me too, with the help of my favorite book by Phil McGraw. And I wasn't sitting around waiting. I continued to love him, but I had a daughter to raise and life was happening. I knew I couldn't support us and keep this house. She couldn't stay in private school. And I didn't have much time. I knew my job would be ending, just didn't know when. So I enrolled her in public school, started working on the house to sell it. Went to HS football games, shopping with friends, movies with the kids, whatever. I enjoyed more days than I didn't. And grew stronger. So, soon, I didn't have to pretend. During this time, I forgave him. Don't remember when or how, just all of a sudden, realized that I wasn't angry and didn't hold anything against him. Robert had held marriage sacred, had always been there for me, no matter what. Had NO respect whatsoever for any SOB who would stray and was very verbal about it. For a good, kind and decent man - the most wonderful man I ever knew to turn his back on everything that had ever been important to him - something was wrong. And I couldn't love him and not forgive him for something that took him over so completely. I learned to laugh. I began sleeping, I began to live. But I didn't stop loving him. I think THAT'S moving on.

Around Dec. he started calling a bit more, bogus reasons, favors he needed. Still talking divorce. But finally communicating a bit. I just listened. Never talked about us. See, now I wasn't "playing" him to get him back. I was REALLY his friend! You know? I cared about him, loved him and wanted what was best for him. Like a real friend would. So, it was getting easier most of the time. Of course, I still wanted him back, but, I wasn't obsessing anymore. He called one day at work, wanted the Dr.'s phone number and wound up getting really nasty with me. I patiently listened and let him talk, no matter what he said, and eventually discovered that he had had a seizure, the first in 20 years, the Friday b/f. Once I thought about it and the way I know my husband is, I realized he could've looked the phone number up in the directory. He needed to talk - he was scared. And, for him, scared turns into angry. And I was the target. Why? Because I was the one he could trust. And I was there for him. I found out later, I was right. Without even realizing it, when he got scared, he turned to me.

In January, I got that letter. And 4 days later, he asked to come home. We took a month to make the transition and see each other. He still had not said "I love you." That came during that month. So did our first conversations about us since that very first week. I found out later that he thought he came home b/c he decided he SHOULD. Now, it didn't hurt that PT had been a B**** and I had become someone he enjoyed being around. He told his family he really "liked" me now - I was still Lori, but "more somehow". And I really liked me too - a whole lot more than I did before. I was very proud of myself for what I was doing - for my marriage and for me personally. That shines through, I think. It seems that he had been doing a lot of thinking - for practically the whole time. And then, one day, he heard a song, and it stuck in his head, reminding him of committment and all that stuff. He pushed it away and wrote that letter - fighting the thoughts. Well, on his way over here on Saturday, he heard it again. And he decided. He couldn't "move on" until he had finished this. He was coming over to fix my dryer for me (the FIRST thing he had ever offered to do) and wound up taking me for a ride and asking to come home. No real romance there, guys.

The first few weeks were unsettling. PT pulled hard and so did his emotions. There's so much guilt and other stuff. He said he wanted to move out on day 3. He tested me constantly to see if I was real and if my love was real. And, then, very slowly, he became strong. And we began to fall in love. And now, he tells me he loves me forever, loved me even when he didn't love me (that makes sense to me for some reason) and that he's 100% "in love" with me (I hate THAT phrase, too, but I'll take it from him! ) He also says he admires my courage, respects me for respecting him, even when I had no reason to, and that my believing in him made him strong. I don't take credit for all that, but it sure feels good to hear it.

Ok, now for opinions. Don't blast me, ok? I never felt humiliated or shamed. We made mistakes and bad judgements, but...stuff happens. I had small spurts of anger - at specific THINGS he did and said, but anger has never come easily for me - I believe it's simply another way of showing hurt, so I never really had to deal with the slow burning continuous anger - I just let myself hurt and dealt with it. Tootrusting is right - we can't force them. THEY have to figure it out on their own. All we can do is be there and love them - if we choose to.... and that's what it is - a choice. We're not doormats or any such nonsense. We're strong and independent and coping with a difficult situation, thank you. And this is NOT for wimps! I can't think of anything less doormatty (like that word? ) than standing strong for what you believe in in the face of all the nonsense. But I'd be there for my child and I decided I'd sure as hell be there for my husband as long as he'd let me - and sometimes, even when he wouldn't. A lot of times it would've been a lot easier to run - For my short time, I chose the other path.

Robert didn't decide "all of a sudden". All those months of Plan A (I just do NOT have a Plan B personality!) were slowly building impressions that were eating away at his subconscious. When the time was right, a trigger (the song) brought them to the surface. I'm not so sure that he really did it to "do the right thing." I think that's the excuse for doing what he wanted to do, know what I mean? I mean, his love just grew too quickly to have just been "doing the right thing." He didn't change his mind quickly. Everything was slowing bringing him back to reality - we just couldn't see it. PT was being a B*****. I was being an angel. The fog was wearing thin. The letter was a last grasp to hang on to the "I'll never go back" thing. Fighting back against those nagging thoughts. I found out later that every time he left here, no matter how awful he was to me, he went home and was MORE awful to PT - or quiet and sullen. Then, he'd go out and do something WONDERFUL for her.....trying to hold on, know what I mean? Remember the little Dutch boy? A tiny hole in a dam is NOT a big thing. But that little bit of water, seeping through, DOES eventually break it down! That's Plan A. That's what happened to Robert, I think and so does his mom. It didn't happen all of a sudden, the damn dam just finally broke against the consistant gentle force of the water!!! (I just LOVE analogies - even corny ones! )

OK, warned you this would be long and I don't even know if I've helped at all. The saddest part is that it WAS longer....I actually pared it down a bit! TNT summed it up better than me.

Ok, so that's the closest I can come to a nutshell version. If I missed a question, let me know. I'll try NOT to be so wordy the next time around.

Good luck to you.

Love and prayers,

Lori

Ok here's some more stuff from her(LOSTVA) I have gotten rid of the persons name that forwarded it to me...


Although all our situations have some similarities, they're still different. You have to handle things the best way for you. I've read on other posts about the length of time to Plan A. My Plan A was for about 2 months before he left and 7 afterwards, with no Plan B in sight. Anonymous's was longer by a few months and both our marriages are wonderful now. If I had ended it earlier, while they were still in "honeymoon phase", I don't think I'd be here. But when SHE fell apart, I was still the lighthouse in the storm. And he didn't just say "I'm coming home" and expect me to weep with joy...he asked if I'd have him and we talked a long, long time. I wasn't being a doormat, I was treating him with respect and he returned it. I think it was Gary Smalley who wrote that honoring a spouse is a gift you bestow upon them WHETHER OR NOT they deserve it. That stuck with me and that's what I tried to do. I think it showed.

I didn't choose no contact when we reconciled; (I FORGOT this..!!) I didn't even ask. I kissed him goodbye and sent him off to work and to her escapades (she kept trying for more than a year and she is very, very good at this!) every morning. I did this for ME, not for him. I needed him to send her away because he didn't want her around, not because I asked him to (although I believe he would have) and I didn't want to worry that, months or years down the road he would run into her and feel all warm and fuzzy and I'd panic. Nope, I couldn't handle that. And, btw, he did get rid of her - had her transferred. But by then, she was such a non-issue that I hadn't asked about her in months and he forgot to tell me that she had been gone off the job for a long, long time! She didn't matter to either of us.

That wouldn't be the best solution for everyone, but it was best for some of us. The same with my letters, our friendship, everything else. We took the Harley's basic principles and customized them. It's not that unusual. I remember Steve counselling someone "back in the day" to continue Plan A for a long, long time, even after their WS had moved in with OP. He customized according to personalities and situations. Plan A is about trying to meet your spouse's needs, if you can. But we expanded the definition just a bit. Affairs rarely happen in perfect marriages, although they can when emotional problems are involved. Although only the WS bears the responsibility for going outside the marriage to handle problems, both partners are responsible for the state the marriage is/was in. This sort of wake-up call is the perfect time to look inside ourselves and see how we might be a better person or a better spouse. It gives us power and strength. It makes Plan A so much easier. And we learn the lessons we need to know in order to make this marriage (should we reconcile) or other relationship what it should be. I think that's how self-growth got so tied into Plan A for some of us. Because it's important. And without it, should you reconcile, you have the same old people, doing the same old things and that could mean the same old situation. Most of us want something better.

I was forwarded this as well....

More Info on Plans

T2L -- thank you. I think I really needed to read these tonight. I think I needed plan b for my own sanity, but I also need to know that I can trust myself that if I need to adjust the plans, its ok. Part of this whole process is us trusting ourselves and being so lost for so long after our best friends betray us make that so hard.
Maybe that is where you have been lately -- learning again to trust yourself even if it looked a little different to others?
Take care,
BF439

Hi T2L, wasn't that a great read. Interested to see what others have to say about it.

Ok I found the links to Orchids revers babble post...I had to look forever through my old post. I also found some other ones like truehearts letter....a great letter....and the 5 stages of grieving.

Orchids fabulous Reverse Babbel Thread

True Hearts Letter

5 stages of grieving

I DO NOT have an accent. You just live in a country where everyone talks funny.

And Crysalis is a great cook and welcome to stay and visit my kitchen, err I mean us, anytime