I like the whole article and the above is what jumped out at me too. MCs and ICs in general are doing a huge disservice to marriages. Thanks for posting the article. I emailed it to H.

This is a bit for the post above mine.

Dr. Hendrix's approach I feel focusses on the same things as MB because Imago relationship theapy has you learn to show love to your partner in ways that might make you uncomfortable. Sounds a whole lot like meeting the EN's to me. You find out from your partner how they want you to love them and then you do that.

Just as Dr. Harley does the LB thing, Dr. Hendrix's approach has you move out conflict and into intimacy. They call the conflict the power struggle where both people are trying to meet the EN's of the other person expecting them to be the same as your own.

The holes I have found in Imago fill in quite well with MB stuff.

Hope this has been helpful

Did you want to know anything else about Imago therapy Pepperband?

If you read Getting the Love you want, make sure to get the newer version. Also the companion book called Recieving Love is quite fascinating.

No thank you.

Tuesday bump for any WW's struggling with feelings of being :crosseyedcrazy:judged.

I thought I'd join in on this. Although I am judged, I accept that people have reason to judge me. But this discussion has refreshed a lot of usefulness for me and made me think, so thanks Pep

As well as my conflict resolution training I also try to apply my "Working with Children with behaviour probs" experience. Of course this doesn't work either.

The key is BUILDING ROMANTIC LOVE



This is something that I think is so important in all areas of life ( high expectations).

I have never ever thought of marriage being about unconditional love, but having read this I think maybe H has and actually I think working with MB is beginning to change his outlook.


Now then, could I say: "I wish there weren't so many enablers in my life, then I wouldn't act quite so selfishly?" No, I know I can't but I have to confess, I have been in the habit of taking advantage of enablers. So, this is where the empathy comes in. But it is a skill that we should choose to use all the time and not turn it on and off to suit our needs. Note to self: Enable empathy at all times.

If POJA is active and working, then enabling doesn't exist, resentment doesn't build and can not cause damage.

ST

Pep, sorry to have left a question of yours unanswered a few pages back. I didn't realise it was there.

Can I raise a specific example to illustrate my feeling that there are problems if one party doesn't really know what they want, or wants something unreasonable?

It's about the management of money, which must be a hot topic for many couples.

The conservation of resources - money and possessions - has always been a source of conflict for me and H.

H is 'naturally' frugal - it gives him real pleasure to deny himself things...to wear the same underwear for decades till it falls apart...to not spend money on anything at all unless it's vital to existence. I'm sure that's not unusual.

I'm not a spendthrift, but I like to feel I have a bit of 'splurge' money. A pair of new earrings cheers me up immensely. I'm sure lots of women are like me.

Clearly we need to find a solution that's OK for us both. But to do that, we both have to be aware of what we want. Being conscious that I 'need' a certain freedom to buy non-essentials, it seems sensible to me to find a way to let me have modest amounts of splurge money, while still saving...so I suggest a savings goal and a budget which I stick to carefully. Over the years, H has kind of half-accepted this (he's never been exactly enthusiastic, but he comes up with no other suggestion). However, his acceptance levels fluctuate with his feeling of personal insecurity.

There's a well-established pattern. When he's feeling worried, he sees me as spending wildly and irresponsibly, even if it's within the agreed budget. When I ask him whether he'd like to reduce the budget and increase savings, he avoids the question. When I ask him what he wants to do about the 'problem', and press him for an answer, the answer seems to be that he wants me to think and feel like him, and not want to spend any money.

This clearly isn't a reasonable request, as I don't think and feel like him, and have no intention of sacrificing my own (reasonable, I believe) needs in order to quell his anxiety. In any case, I've learned that nothing I do helps anyway - the less I spend, the more anxious he gets about what I DO buy; my earning more money makes little difference to his worries.

At times when he's really anxious, he feels that the budget idea was an imposition on him, and he didn't really want to do it, and he forgets that he agreed an amount, and he feels he's being fleeced.

If we go back to the original Harley quote:



I think H is saying both of these things to me, but it's very difficult for me to see what I can do to meet his needs or stop upsetting him.

I've taken to telling him bluntly that it's his problem and he needs to deal with it himself...but that's certainly not sticking any love units in either bank.

How can POJA work if one party's criteria change according to mood?


TA

May I suggest you write to Dr Harley, I think you asked a good question.
See what the "horses mouth" has to say about your particular situation. I'm sure all of us would love to hear the "official" response.

Bump

I read this thread just after reading BTinTrouble's latest post and thought what Jennifer was counselling BT and his wife to do was interesting as it relates to your quote above.

Here is the relevant excert from BT's thread:


What I take from this is doesn't really conflict with your points, pep, but it's more along the lines of HOW to deliver a complaint in a love deposit method. Giving a "positive" statement about what you'd like instead IMPLIES a complaint about the way things have been or are being done HOWEVER such statement offers a solution IMMEDIATELY (which is open for productive discussion) as opposed to the simple "I don't like it when you xyz" which has a more negative context and is more likely to result in unproductive defense and even anger. It's a short-cut.

Other than that...not much to say. I like the thread. I am a bad complaint receiver myself (I jump to defense often by counter-attack...passive aggressively, of course) and a conflict avoider so I always need to keep tabs on such tendencies and reinforce that conflict and complaints need to be stated and addressed in our MB marriage.

Thanks for the bump.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for popping in Mr W.

This topic is one where I can always make improvements.
Even after all these years (29).

In truth, I find less and less to complain about.
And, it's sort of funny, some of my H's habits (quirky stuff) that used to drive me crazy, I now rather enjoy.
My H is an unusual person. And that quirky unusualness makes him NEVER boring to be around.
He is occasionally embarrassing, but once I stopped owning his behavior, I was free to enjoy his occasional weirdness.

I'm pretty sure we are going to defy these odds, but stranger things have happened.

Where is this statistic from? I am interested in this.

Gdar
This bump is in your honor

2010

Bringing this thread back .... Enjoy MB101 posters !!!!

I wrote the following on a different thread in "Other Topics" but, I wanted to reference it here.

You're awesome Pep!

This is why I love Dr Harley.
Pragmatic + Factual = Fantastic results


Behavioral changes lead to attitudinal changes .... Sometimes attitudinal changes lead to behavioral changes.
I don't care !!!! Just change, Pepperband.

Could this be stated any clearer?
I doubt it.

We love our spouse, right?

Why then do we ignore their complaints?
Riddle me that?

Mr Pep is awesomer.
(spell check just had a cow)

Pepperband,

Any ideas on how to ask your spouse if they have any complaints?

I have asked it like that but I always get "everything is fine".

I was hoping you might have some ideas for me on how to ask and actually get an answer?

Thanks.

Do the love busters questionnaire.
Then, exchange lists.

I was aware (after last nights dinner conversation/complaining) that I am STILL love busting with independent behaviors . Now, my H did not use those exact words .... but it is what it is.

Progress, not perfection.
But I need some work!
Habits sneak back in.

I'm going to re-do the L-B questionnaire myself.