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Originally Posted by tst
I sent you an e-mail, reply when you can!

I just did. Thanks, TST.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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Originally Posted by sunflower55
gm-
sorry - sent it by accident without finishing-
and do whatever it takes to win her back- then keep at it.

remember dr. harley's words???? these are all HABITS that can be changed and relearned.

sf

You are so sweet, Sunflower. Thanks for the reminder. I know that they are habits that can be unlearned. I am counting on it, and so is SSS.

Today has been much better. We have been working together all day on projects and have enjoyed each other's company and companionship. The bad days will come often enough, but if we can eliminate the love busters, meet each others EN's, eliminate the independent behavior, and always implement POJA, we can recover enough to have a good life together. That is our goal.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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Hi GM,

I am married to your twin, except we are 5 years out from discovery. 25 years of reality and choices were "stolen" from me. too. I really think I can and want to support you and your w. I've offered her my email addy but she hasn't responded. I think I could save you guys about 4 years of misery. Of course, it's the hardest thing we've ever been through, but it is possible to come out together. The main goal is to come out healthier - together is a bonus. Frustrating to watch you both doing this dance. I am available - lilybelle100@yahoo.com

Best -L


me:BS
first d-day 7/28/04
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Hi, Lillybelle. SSS got your message and will be getting back to you. She is very interested in what you have to say. We have been immersed in projects together and also the MB exercizes and lessons.

I am delighted for you that you have found something to help you. SSS and I are 100% committed to MB and cannot let any other program confuse or dilute it, or it will not work. We have invested everything in it. After going to the weekend and meeting and listening to Dr. Harley, I can tell you, as a person with a science background, that MB is empirical, logical, and works if it is followed, and the statistics and experience over many years proves it. It makes total sense to me and to SSS.

If it doesn't work, then we will not be together and will thus need no other program. I don't think that will happen, but I dearly appreciate your offer of help and wish you continued success. One question, though. Why are you on the MB forums, if you have had success with another program?


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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Been trying to update things, but every time I post and submit, it is lost, and it logs me out to boot. Will try again:

We are spending a lot of time together and trying very hard. So many triggers. Good days and bad days. The staff here has been wonderful with their encouragement, but there is so much healing needed before we can make a lot of progress on the lessons. SSS and I have so much fun together on the good days and are really made for each other. I was so immature, angry, and demanding for so long and completely lacked a moral compass. My miserable character made of mess of a potentially great marriage. We may not succeed no matter how hard we try, but encouragement is the lifeblood of our chances. We just have to trust in the program and trust in God to help us and to help me be worthy of recovery. Whatever helps SSS to heal is all that is important.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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GM-
hi - i have been reading your posts on the weekend forum and now just this one. your words and emotions are dead on. you know the truth of your past - and you are learning from your past - how you want to live the present and the future.

you sound like my H. sss needs time and assurance from you in order to heal.

she is a burn victim - and every trigger that happens- or misstep by you- will cause her tremendous pain- as you have seen.

do not shrink away when she is in pain- but stay by her- support her in any way you can- as you seem to be doing.

THINK hard before you say things to her- and imagine that you are her - and how it would feel to hear those words. empathize with her pain- and let her feel bathed in your love.

continued feelings of love and safety - will allow her to heal and move forward.

sf


BS- me 56; FWH-58
3 kids, DS 23,23 DD 14; Married: 34 years
D-Days: 7/11/07;/7/13/07;7/31/07
Unbelievably recovering- but in an up and down way.
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Thanks, Sunflower. I appreciate your wise words and encouragement. I wish the best for you two, as well.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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Sorry to hear about the posting problems. It's good to see an update from you. I wonder about you two.

SSS has been hurt more than anyone I remember seeing on these boards. I'm surprised she gave you a chance at reconciliation but I must say you are stepping up to the plate admirably.

It's lovely to hear you say that her healing is what's important in all this. Happily, you can help her most by working honestly on yourself, which you appear to be doing.

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Originally Posted by turtlehead
Sorry to hear about the posting problems. It's good to see an update from you. I wonder about you two.

SSS has been hurt more than anyone I remember seeing on these boards. I'm surprised she gave you a chance at reconciliation but I must say you are stepping up to the plate admirably.

It's lovely to hear you say that her healing is what's important in all this. Happily, you can help her most by working honestly on yourself, which you appear to be doing.

I am, Turtlehead. Thank you. It is not fair to SSS that she has to work on all this also, because I am totally at fault, but to make a sound marriage and restore romantic love, SSS is finding some aspects of the lessons difficult also, and require change and new habits for her as well as for me. But she is taking this on with determination, also. I think one of the hardest things (though the best thing) for me is re-discovering how remarkable she is. Though it makes me redouble my efforts to stay married to her and to make the necessary radical changes in my life and and the way I see the world, it amplifies the horror I feel when I realize what I have squandered and the value of the woman who I betrayed. I think about that many times every day.

For reasons that are difficult for me to explain, she really still likes me and still loves me. If I can help her heal enough in the next few years to get her through most days without pain, we will make make it. I am sure of it. But it is entirely up to me. I think my plan to protect my weaknesses is a good one and is strong. As long as I pay attention to it, I am safe. I don't think that is really different for any couple. It is true for everyone. Everyone needs such a plan. Steve Harley explained to me that no one is ever safe without a conscious plan. That is why 60% of all marriages are marked by episodes of infidelity.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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**********

Last edited by Asterisk; 05/08/09 09:16 AM. Reason: Personal Attack + Profane

BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Hey GM,

I really liked what PM had to say on another thread, so I moved it over here.

Originally Posted by PrincessMeggy
May I offer a different theory? My DH was similar to this at first in our recovery. He COULD NOT handle it when I spiraled down. His words were as if he were pacing the room wringing his hands, wanting to know but afraid to ask, what he could do to fix this. He couldn't. He just couldn't. Anything he said would be read by me as patronizing or insincere or dishonest. I had no trust left to trust his words that the past is the past. What's done is done.

After a few months of this, and him exclaiming several times that, "It's always going to be like this isn't it? You're going to punish me for the rest of my life", clearly not understanding, he finally got it. He learned that it was part of the healing process, there WAS nothing he could do at that moment to make it better. He finally learned that the best he could do was to hold me and to quietly just.be.there. as I healed. I remember one of the things he exclaimed often was, "I don't know what you want from me! What can I do?!?"

I didn't have the answer because I didn't know. It just was. I could not express what I was feeling without sounding pitiful to myself. I didn't have MB at the time, but you do.

Thankfully, we made it through and things are better than ever between us. We walked through the fire and survived..........





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted by tst
Hey GM,

I really liked what PM had to say on another thread, so I moved it over here.

Originally Posted by PrincessMeggy
May I offer a different theory? My DH was similar to this at first in our recovery. He COULD NOT handle it when I spiraled down. His words were as if he were pacing the room wringing his hands, wanting to know but afraid to ask, what he could do to fix this. He couldn't. He just couldn't. Anything he said would be read by me as patronizing or insincere or dishonest. I had no trust left to trust his words that the past is the past. What's done is done.

After a few months of this, and him exclaiming several times that, "It's always going to be like this isn't it? You're going to punish me for the rest of my life", clearly not understanding, he finally got it. He learned that it was part of the healing process, there WAS nothing he could do at that moment to make it better. He finally learned that the best he could do was to hold me and to quietly just.be.there. as I healed. I remember one of the things he exclaimed often was, "I don't know what you want from me! What can I do?!?"

I didn't have the answer because I didn't know. It just was. I could not express what I was feeling without sounding pitiful to myself. I didn't have MB at the time, but you do.

Thankfully, we made it through and things are better than ever between us. We walked through the fire and survived..........

Thanks, TST. I continually refer to the things you have told me and written and your wonderful encouragement. Times are very tough for SSS right now, because it is our anniversary and mothers day both this weekend. You know. You have been there. I don't always manage to be strong and encouraging, because my guilt is so enormous that it beggars description, and when I am reminded of that, it hurts so bad that it is hard to remain strong. Then I start to focus on my own pain. It is hard not to. It hurts like fire. But she is in pain of a magnitude I can never imagine. But I have to imagine it... and feel it, too. I put her there. Pain is pain. Some day, she may be willing to resume working the MB program. In the meantime, I will try to remember all the things you have taught me, and I will try to do the MB lessons as much as I can on my own and become her source of greatest solace and comfort. Right now, no matter what I do in this program, how I meet her EN's, when she looks at me, she mostly sees only the person who destroyed her life and ruined all her memories. It may turn out to be too much. Neither of us really knows. But I will not quit. I will fight for her. If she eventually gives up and sends me packing, I will understand and not blame her.

We have really good days. We really do. Then the sky turns dark and begins to boil, and the seven plagues are unleashed on the world. Blood, locusts, killing of the firstborn, hail the size of baseballs, posts from Black Raven.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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Hi, everyone. I have not posted for a long, long time, so I wanted to just check in with you all.

We are a year out from the final D-day. I can tell that MSM is starting to heal a bit, but it is slow going, and there are always daily triggers and fleeting return to the full horror of the carnage that I left of MSM's life...and my own. But there are many, many good days, and I give thanks for every moment and feel so much gratitude and love for all the help and the often tough love that was extended to us both from all of you on the forum. When I try to step back and look objectively at our situation and what is slowly happening in our recovery, I allow myself to project that MSM may actually be ready to return to the MB lessons in another year or so.

I know everyone would love to hear that we are deep into recovery and success, and that we are building love units daily and following the normal ascending curve of couples who have turned to Marriage Builders at their darkest time, but I cannot really say that. I was so terrible as a husband and as a human being for so many years, that it was actually criminal that I did not let MSM go and make a decent life for herself 25 years ago. No rational person could expect her to put that aside and go on. For MSM to make the progress that she has in the last year is as miraculous as my own transformation as a person. In addition to her grief and anger, she is dealing with gigantic feelings of worthlessness and embarrassment that she did not put a stop to our marriage long ago and feelings of being a fool for staying with me. But there is hope, and there is still recovery happening. I am in it for the long haul, and she is starting to believe that, though she won't dare admit it. We both want it. And neither of us is facing the future with blinders on.

I will try to keep you posted from time to time. I love you all, even the folks who were mean to us LOL. I understand its origin and its purpose.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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GM, thank you for the update. I am glad to hear you are still as committed to recovery as you were a year ago. MSM is a lovely woman and you are very blessed.

tst and I care for you both and are hopeful for your marriage. Your patience, gentleness, consistency, and commitment are the key, and it sounds like you understand that. Please tell MSM hello for me.

As horrible as you were, today you are a different man because you choose to be.


Happily married to HerPapaBear



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Originally Posted by sexymamabear
GM, thank you for the update. I am glad to hear you are still as committed to recovery as you were a year ago. MSM is a lovely woman and you are very blessed.

tst and I care for you both and are hopeful for your marriage. Your patience, gentleness, consistency, and commitment are the key, and it sounds like you understand that. Please tell MSM hello for me.

As horrible as you were, today you are a different man because you choose to be.
kiss


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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GM, thanks for the update. MSM will struggle with the anger she has for herself for quite sometime. Even though my FWH only had 1 A, I look back at the red flags that were present throughout our R that I chose to dismiss and I have a hard time forgiving myself. I hope I can teach my children to choose differently.

This will take years GM. Glad you two keep moving in a positive direction.


BW(me)
DDay EA 4/05
DDay PA 6/05
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Thank you for the update GM, from me too!

Originally Posted by GreenMile
In addition to her grief and anger, she is dealing with gigantic feelings of worthlessness and embarrassment that she did not put a stop to our marriage long ago and feelings of being a fool for staying with me.
GM, you are right, these are gigantic feelings, and they are a huge hurdle to overcome. Please tell your wife that she is not alone with these feelings, I struggled with them too.
Continue to give her your time and love, and prove to her that she made the right choice to choose R of her M.
You sound like you understand what she is struggling with, and this is a reflection of your own growth .... smile

Please tell MSM that I hope she is DWG, and that I think of her very often and miss her.
hug


M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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Thanks to you both. I will pass that along.


FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.
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