You said it once, at the beginning... but have you said, "Ok, I want to leave to do ______. I'm leaving in 15 minutes, do you want to come?"


PS - if the car you drive is still soapy, c'est la vie. You can always zip through a car wash at a gas station. It costs what, $6? and takes all of 10 minutes. I think it's a good investment.

I think you hit on the one thing I'm terrified to do - just say I'm leaving. Because I know he'll get mad. At least he has the 10,000 other times I have done it. Or tried. I almost always back down and wait to do things his way so he stops being upset.

So we just talked about why D18 was mad at him. I said it wasn't that she didn't want to wash her car. It was that he decided that the car needed to be washed now, and expected her to stop whatever she was doing and wash it. I said that it was the same issue as with the patio. So he blamed me for bit@hing about the patio. I said I was perfectly happy cleaning the patio, but he decided it was time to clean the patio, STARTED cleaning it, and expected me to come out and help him.

He griped about how D18 and I are just like his boss - want everything from HIM but not willing to give. (in other words, he has to do everything) I said - towel in hand as I was drying my car that he decided to wash - "Do you see me not giving? Did I not clean the patio? Wash the car? Everything else you decide to do?"

No response, so I said "It's not that we don't want to do the things you want to do. It's that you DECIDE to do them without saying anything out loud. Then you do them. Then you get mad if we don't stop everything and help you. If you would say out loud what you want to get done, we would be able to plan for it. As it is, we are just forced to change what we are doing, any time you make a decision."

He hates being criticized.

Good luck, Cat! I'm glad you came here to calm down and get a clear head!

Cat, I've heard it said several times here about various other things--but it applies here re: your H getting mad.

Your marriage will survive his getting mad. It might not survive your resentment. So as hard as it is--and I UNDERSTAND THIS--BELIEVE ME--I also agree you should let him know you're leaving at such and such a time and then just go. I think if you do this a few times, he'll get the picture.

And re: his independent behavior of just doing things. Maybe you could have headed him off at the pass when he did the bird seed/patio by asking: "H, this wasn't on our list to do today, though I'm happy to help. But I wanted to remind you that we agreed we'd all leave at X time for errands. So if you have any other chores you want to do today, would you please talk to me about them so we can decide together how to best try to work them into the day?"

But, why did you go out and start helping with the patio, without even saying, "So are we gonna do the errands we discussed as soon as we finish this?"

If you weren't willing to say that, then don't go out there.

I know this is easier said than done... but boy, I sure wish I could just be you for this day! I woulda hopped into my car in a heartbeat. And maybe gone to the library after the errands were done, then to a Waffle House... and headed home around midnight.

Don't do anything you aren't enthusiastic about. The only reason he gets to decide when the cars get washed, is cus y'all go out there and join him when he starts.

Thanks OH, you're right of course.

I've just never done that in 30 years, so it's kind of scary.

Jayne, I went out because I assumed (there I go) that he just noticed something that needed done and that the sooner I helped him the sooner we'd leave. I know, I know, this way doesn't work. At least we're talking about it.

D18 made lunch, waited, went ahead and ate without us, as we are now outside waxing my car. If it was his car, I might forego it. Anyway, after we finish my car, I'm going to eat, and then leave, whether he's ready or not.

OH is exactly right. Our MC keeps hammering this point to me. He says, "So what if he gets mad? That's his problem, not yours. And by the way, you've trained him to get mad to get his way."

It's true. I have a huge fear of conflict and anger scares me, so I keep trying to 'not make him mad.' This just leads to a lot of anger, resentment and passive-aggressive behavior on my part and a lack of respect on his part.

I now have an index card I carry around with me that says, "I'm not responsible for someone's reactions.'

If you husband gets mad, let him. It's not going to be the end of your marriage. He will get over it. And as a bonus, it might make him think twice before doing this type of thing.

Thanks, MizzJuneBug. Good to know I'm not the only one. I know better, it's just taking that one step. My H used to 'punish' me for such things, so I learned early on just to avoid it. One time he wouldn't stop talking to someone at church, this was like an hour, maybe 2, after service ended, and he just expects me to stand there and wait for him to finish talking. And if I dare embarrass him by interrupting, look out.

Anyway, one time I just slipped in with 'I'm going home. Call me when you're ready to go home.' And I left. He calls, I get in the car and start driving back to church, and I see him walking home! Of course he's on the side of the road where I am sure to see him, pass him, so that I'll know he's mad. So I turn around and pull up, he gets in, pouting, and chews me out for embarrassing him by not being there when they finished their conversation.

Now, a healthy person would just let him walk home. But that just terrifies me more, because if he made it all the way home, the 'punishment' would be even worse, many times over.

He rarely acts like that any more, but it's hard to reprogram yourself, you know?

That sounds EXACTLY like something my husband would do.

Except I would have been the one to walk home and he would have said that I was embarassing him, having his wife walking on the side of the road.

Do you mean physical abuse? Or, and I don't mean to minimize, but is it limited to emotional abuse/AOs/attempts to manipulate/gaslighting/etc? Not to minimize how paralyzing the fear of those can be. But if physical abuse is a possibiltiy, then you know a whole nuther set of stuff needs to be done.

from OH:


from MizzJuneBug:


I love the index card idea. Cat, make several copies of both of these. Keep a copy in your purse; one where you will see it every morning (taped to the bathroom mirror if you dare; if not, then in your make-up drawer or something); put one on your fridge if you dare; if not, then in the pantry if he never goes there, or in the coffee stuff if he never makes coffee... you get the idea. Put one on the sun visor in your car. Use one for a bookmark in whatever book you're reading.

Repeat these out loud to yourself first thing in the morning. Say them to yourself last thing at night.

Wear a rubber band on your wrist, and when you find yourself shrinking back from speaking up, snap the rubber band on your wrist, and go to the bathroom, look yourself in the mirror, and repeat these two things.

Even if you don't catch yourself, go to the mirror at least 3 times during the day and say these things to yourself.

Email these two quotes to yourself once a day.

Put them on your calendar, at the top of your To Do List.

Make your desktop background be these sayings in huge letters.

Let DD18 know these quotes, and tell her she can remind you of them if she sees the need.

Good stuff, Jayne, thanks.

No, it's not physical at all. Never touched me. I think once, decades ago, he hit a wall, but that was only once. The minute I told him his yelling scared D18, he stopped. It's just getting me to tell him how I feel, you know? So I'll set up your suggestions (one of which I gave someone else!).

I'm sorry, but the fact is, I hate my husband. It doesn't matter what the subject, if he isn't afraid of my anger and acting on his best behavior because of it, he is full of venom. He hates everyone. Everyone is worthless. If only everyone wouldn't be such sh*ts, life would be beautiful. It's always everyone else's fault.

Today, it was D18's black, gay, smoking friends who have ruined life as we know it. We tried for a nice afternoon after D18's work; instead it turned into (for the second time today) why D18's worthless gay, black and smoking friends have ruined our lives. If she would just have GOOD friends, like HE had in high school, life would be great.

I spent two houirs ignoring him at the gym/spa/pool after the second set of diatribes from him on the same subject (see above), and he and D18 kissed and made up. But no one made any attempt to make up with me.

I've spent the last 3 hours wishing and planning how to pay off our debt so I could just leave and be by myself. I'm going to allow myself one lunch out a week, and no other expenses except for graduating D18. Aside from that, every penny is going to go for paying off OUR bills so I can leave this piece of crap.

I am so sad that I've wasted my entire life trying to keep everyone else in my life happy, no matter what it means to me.

I'm one step ahead of last year, where all I wanted was to get D18 graduated and away so I could die without impacting her so much. Today, I don't want to die quite as much. I just want to disappear.

I feel for ya, Cat. My solution right now is to get my H moved across the country. Deal with the "if" we all meet up there, later. Right now I'm thinkin'....not.

I'm sorry it was such a terrible afternoon. Stay the course, keep working on you.

Hugs.

Cat, call me if you want to talk. Iknow that it really really hurts when you are in situations like that. LA used to remind me that I have a lot more power than I think, right where I was, more responsibility. That it doesn't take leaving to set progressive boundaries where you get him out when it's time. I went through something similar today with H's hostility. I asked him to go stay with his brother, but he's not going to make it that easy. I tried to get some friends to come over for dinner so he'd put back on his nice attitude, but everyone had plans So thank goodness one of my brothers asked to come over for dinner. It was nice to spend a little time being nice like a normal family for a few hours.

Cat, do you have some folks to invite over to normalize the situation a little? Doesn't your H have a nice friend who settles him down? Just for a little short term peace? To get things calm enough that you would feel comfortable sharing your O&H that this tirade business is emptying your love bank and you are looking to do some alternate things instead, with or without him? He seems to respond to your O&H, right?

Ouch, cat! I am so sorry to read these words from you.

And I am also saddened. If someone as knowledgeable and helpful as catperson (with 7600+ posts) has such a terrible time with her marriage, what chance is there for mere mortals? I certainly have no advise for her.

Catperson, what would have done differently from the start of your relationship? Or from the time that your resentments have started to surface?

lol, thanks, AG, but hardly immortal. I just grew up being told I was supposed to get married. What we did back then. Screwed up childhood, so I didn't know anything about protecting myself, only about keeping everyone else happy no matter what. Honestly, I probably never had a chance, once I married someone even more flawed than me. It just took me 30 years to be able to figure it all out. So while I know how things should work, and I can dish out all the advice in the world, using it myself is really hard.

ears, I just saw the other day that you had called me like a week ago. I'm sorry I never noticed.

I've realized that H can make nice, he can change how he acts with me - he's being really nice today, of course - but the underlying truth is he is so flawed from his childhood that, unless he is getting everything he wants in life, all his old issues guide his whole life.

And it's that thought process of his that I hate. He's not a cheat, a thief, a liar, he has immense integrity. All the things you'd want in a person. But his low self-esteem, his chip on his shoulder, his waiting for everyone to screw him over...he'll never get rid of that. Without SERIOUS IC.

That thought process manifests itself into him thinking (or wanting to think) that everyone ELSE is flawed, wrong, mean, a cheat, selfish. It guides everything he does and says and thinks. And given our money situation, and his terror at everything falling apart and him failing...he just gets even more uptight about everything wrong in the world. He can be nice to me, he can hang things up (finally!) for me to show me he's nice, but it doesn't change his thought process. One of these days I'm going to keep a notepad and write down everything he says in a day so y'all can get an idea of what it's like.

It's overwhelming, the anger, misery, hatred, suspicion, prejudice and judgment that guides his mind. I used to numb myself to him to survive it, but now that I'm working on things, I have to experience it all and, frankly, I'm just dismayed and overwhelmed. I spend all my time dreaming about being alone just so I never have to hear another negative thought. And D18 says this too, and I've never said it out loud to her, but she came to the same conclusion.

If I invite people over, he brings it up later as me planning out his whole life. How he has no say in anything (even if I ask him first), we do everything D18 and I want, but it's never what HE wants. Well, what HE wants is to watch TV and to go to movies. That's it.

Our fight yesterday, so it will make sense, was over prom. When D18's former best friend had tried to get everyone to hate D18 and to not get a limo with D18 but with her instead, H told me to tell D18 that he would take care of the limo. That's all he said. So I told her, mistakenly (or not, I don't know, now) that Dad said to tell all the people that he was going to cover the limo - kind of a bribe. She said no, didn't want to be like that (yay her!). I told him that. So at the time, it was perfectly obvious that I told her he would pay for it. But now he's saying "I can't even afford my house payment; why would I say I would pay for the limo for a bunch of gay, black, smoking, selfish pieces of sh*t like her friends?"

Anyway, she eventually told them, and told them all that she thought they should pitch in something anyway, so they all pitched in $20 each. Now that he found out it's gonna cost $1000-$2000 for the limo (at least $100/person), he never said he would cover it. And they're all a bunch of pr*cks for expecting him to. And if she would just get some DECENT friends, like HE had, we wouldn't be having this issue.

You see how the logic works for him? Of course, I remember dating him, and him having pool parties at his house every weekend, where WE paid for all the food and drink and booze, and HIS friends never paid a dime. Finally, after a few months of that, I got a shoe box, and wrote DONATIONS TO COVER THE COST OF THE PARTY on the side, and put it out. That was the last party he had. (I just remembered that; I think I need to remind him of that)

I told him yesterday, in the middle of the second fight over the same thing - he keeps bringing it up, not us - that D18 hates being around him. That I have to MAKE her stay around him, because she hates listening to all his hatred for everyone, and how he criticizes her and all her friends all.the.time. And how once she moves out, she'll probably never come back just to get away from him.

So at least I was honest about that. They spent 3 hours together at the gym, and talked to her all night last night after I went to bed at 9, so I guess he worked extra hard to kiss up to her. This morning, he called me about the limo again, and again started talking about how her friends should never have expected...and I interrupted him and said 'can we please not talk about that?' He tried to press it to find out whether to book the limos he'd found and I told him to call D18 and talk to her, not me, since SHE is the one who would know if her friends will indeed pay their way.

It's weird how, when I'm at my rope's end, I can say what I need to. I guess I'm one of those wives we always talk about, how they put up and put up and put up, until they can't any more, and then it's too late.

And to top it off, yesterday was my brother's birthday, and I completely forgot to call him or visit him, because of all this crap. So now I have to apologize to him, he who loves to pat me on the head, figuratively, and say, that's ok, it's about all I expected from you.

{{{{{ CAT }}}}}

I'm so sorry. I really really really wish I had something I could say to make everything better. I'm at a loss too. It prolly isn't helpful, but if it were me I prolly would leave him too. Life's just plain too too short to stay in such negativity.

*HUGS*

Cat, sorry, thought I'd posted hugs up earlier ((((Cat)))) You're getting stronger and stronger every day, hon. You have made real progress.