I decided to start a new thread to focus on an issue I was hoping to get the board's thoughts on. For background on my situation and the situation between my wife and I, you can get prior history here and here. In short, I am a recovering sex addict who over many years was unfaithful to my wife and lied to her repeatedly about my history when I had an opportunity to come clean. I am now trying to rebuild a relationship with my wife after working on my own recovery for quite a while. I have other outlets for my sexual recovery (RecoveryNation, individual counselor, which I am probably going to stop soon and Sexaholics Anonymous, which is relatively new but hoping it can replace my individual counselor). I'm here to do what I can do to work on my relationship with my wife. We are in a pattern where daily life is manageable: there is not a lot of tension or fighting, we spend quality time together most evenings, we go out on date nights, and we make future plans. But, life is also pretty empty: there is not much affection or sex and my wife doesn't really love me or want to work on our relationship.

With that intro out of the way, here is what I'd like your thoughts on. There is currently a boundary between my wife and I where I am not permitted to initiate physical contact nor am I permitted to tell her that I would like to be physically intimate or ask her if it is ok if we are physically intimate. Any touching between us (whether it is holding hands, hugging, etc.) is in her court. She gets to decide when, and if, we touch each other. I have violated this boundary many times in the past and realize that every time I do that is a love buster. I have been actively working on that and have made much progress.

Here is the issue right now - I would like to ask my wife to revisit this boundary. Once in a while I would like to tell my wife that I would like to hug her and ask her if that is ok. I would like to reach out and hold her hand when we are walking or driving, etc. I would like to rub her back or put my arm around her when we are sitting next to each other. I will not, however, do any of this without first jointly revising our boundaries. To do so would be a big love buster and harmful to our relationship. My fear is that by even asking her to revisit this boundary I am causing harm to our relationship. When I have asked her this in the past she gets frustrated with me because it is relationship talk and that is verboten. But, part of me thinks that this may be welcome by her, that perhaps we have moved to that phase in our relationship. But, I'm gun shy. The last time I brought this up to her was over a month ago and she was frustrated by my bringing it up.

So, should I risk bringing it up even though my very bringing it up can be a love buster?

Why did you stop couples counsling? MC seems like the perfect venue to bring something like this up in.

If she does not love you ... after all your efforts, then this might be a "make the best of it" situation.



She doesn't love you (according to you), so I don't see a large risk of simply having a conversation.


Why do you think this is so? Your best guess?


A conversatuion that you think she might welcome? Then, the risk you take is minimal. The worst thing is you make a mistake. So what?


Frustration is not fatal.


Sure. What have you got to lose? She already does not love you !!!

UD-

We stopped marriage counseling at the request of my wife because it really wasn't working for us. This is part of the "not working on our relationship" thing. And the truth is that we weren't getting much out of it as a couple. How can you get something out of marriage counseling when one of the parties doesn't want to participate? In the end, it was hurting our marriage more than helping it.

Pepperband - point taken. She does love me.

I think your right - bringing it up is not fatal, especially now that such time has passed. I'm not, after all, harassing her with it.

Thanks for your not so subtle assistance.

I'd write a carefully considered letter asking her, really trying to put yourself in her position and trying to understand how she might feel. Don't put in any " I expect you think.. or feel... or I know you... But just put yourself in her shoes. She can read it when you are not around. You will be able to explain your feelings without interruption/ argument and without becoming defensive. Me and my H seem to communicate on contentious issues much better by email/written word than by spoken word. Sometimes we will read emails to each other while the other one is on the end of the phone. IE H sends an email, I phone him at work when I've read and digested and then we discuss it or we print it out and then go through it together.

I suggest as a first point you just suggest the hand holding in the car when the children are there. No more than that. If I feel pressured for sex ( and I can only assume your W does) I find car hand holding very reassuring and a nice token of affection.

ST

Does she often make contact?

Try not to assume your W's feelings or motives. (such as; "she does not love me"). Assuming is a subtle love-buster. It's one of the things my H does that makes me crazy.


Points for you for getting the message so quickly!

I do understand you walk over eggshells getting re-connected. But, do it anyway.

Best of luck..

Suggestion:

Talk to your wife with your eyes.
Look at her lovingly.
Smile at her.
Play her favorite music in the car.
Sing along.
And twice a day pay her a sincere compliment.

Nothing bad is going to happen if you say to her:

"YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL" .... and then smile.

Thanks for the post ST:

You hit on one thing I have done repeatedly over the past two years - saying things like, "I know you..., I know it makes you feel..., etc." Here is the frustrating thing - that was my attempt to show her that I was putting myself in her position and trying to understand how she feels! Which was all a response to her telling me that I wasn't putting myself in a position to understand how she feels!! Which fed itself so I would say it more!!!! And - I think your right - she really doesn't like it when I do that.

So, I got a lot from your post. I would even call it a mini-breakthrough. Thanks! I didn't expect to get an insight like that when asking such a simple question as to whether I should have a boundary discussion with her.

As far as writing the letter, I have used the technique in the past, and there were times it was beneficial. I think for this, I should just have the conversation with her and save the letter for other items that are difficult to discuss.

I like the idea of suggesting as a first step just showing physical affection when the children are around (holding hands in the car, giving her a hug in the kitchen, etc.). So - if she bristles at the idea of completely opening up the boundary, I will suggest this as an alternative. It also has the advantage of sending a message to the kids that affection is part of marriage - I have been getting more and more concerned that we are modeling a bad relationship to our children in many respects.

So - thanks!

Thanks again Pep for your message. I really like the line about assuming is a subtle form of lovebusters. I do assume a lot. There was a time (quite a while ago now - many, many months) that my wife said to me that I needed to take more risk and not assume as much. Too bad I didn't quite understand the message. As noted in my post just above, on some level, I was assuming because I was trying to empathize.

I shall try to walk over the eggshells - but not today or this weekend - that would be very bad timing. Early next week. I'll let the group know how it goes!

Quick update: I still haven't talked to my wife about our physical boundaries - last night just wasn't right. I have learned that I often force myself onto situations or moments that are not the right time. That is somewhat selfish. For this - I don't want to do that. I want to wait until the right moment. Perhaps when we are feeling closer to each other, perhaps a bit more intimate than normal. Plus, I know there are times that are always off limits, such as laying in bed (absolutely no relationship talk in bed). I'm not sure exactly when the moment will be right - but I'll know it when I see it.

I'll keep you updated.

I told my wife last week that I would like to revisit our boundaries and explained to her what I was hoping our boundaries could look like. She received it without anger or frustration, but said that she wanted to think about it. So - when the time is right, I will bring it up and ask her thoughts. I'll let you know what she says.