As much as we love our spouses, we aren't mind readers. I encourage you, Zen, to tell your W clearly and directly what you need from her. Yes, it'd be ideal that she know just by knowing you and loving you. But she may not. (Think of how many couples learn new things with the ENQ.) Because of how Coho interprets things, what looks like red to you, may appear yellow to her. My husband and I played the "you should know" game for years. And we became isolated from each other.

Tell her what you need. Tell your W what you want. Tell her how she can fill your lovebank, make you feel safe, and what you need to heal from her betrayal. If she's like me, Coho is trying to work through her confusion about what she did. Working through the anger, resentment, and shame that you mentioned. Please consider not making her figure out what you need to be better too. If you don't know, that's honest and understandable and let her know that. If you do know, please tell her.

Take care.

Thanks L4, it’s good to get your perspective. I agree that I need to communicate my needs... I don't expect her to be a mind reader. The trick here is that much of what I need from her is change in her thinking, her reactions, her coping, her boundaries and of course, heart-felt remorse. I want to be careful to avoid being her therapist and telling her all the things I think are wrong with her. I also don't want to be in a 'teaching' position with her. It's tricky because I agree that communicating needs is central to a strong marriage, but at the same time I want her to want these changes. As the BS, it's very VERY frustrating feeling like you're always the one working harder.

I guess in the most concise sense, I need her to look at herself and see what behavior, what thought patterns, what beliefs have been most destructive to our marriage, and to actively want to change them. How did an affair become an option? How do we remove the possibility of this ever happening again? I want her to work on the nuts and bolts more.

I think I jinxed myself with my post yesterday. Coho was doing just fine, but I sunk into a really quiet mood and couldn't drag myself out of it all night. We had a very mellow date night, just hung out with my brother and an old friend, which was not at all romantic, but relaxing and pleasant all the same. Coho kept trying to pull me out of my mood all night. I wasn't being grumpy, just quiet. It was fun to listen to the stories shared. It was fun to listen to Coho with kind of a renewed set of ears. This thing has made me a better listener for sure.

The mood continued this morning as I was getting ready to head out of town with the kids. Coho and I talked a bit and I told her the affair is just never far from my mind, which is why I get quiet. She comforted me and apologized. She is doing a very good job at making me feel loved.

Spent the day with my mom and her brother and sister, and her mom and my sister and cousin. My mom, her sister and my sister know of the issues to lesser and greater extent. My sister just knew we were having troubles, but guessed at an affair... I didn't really confirm or deny. All were very supportive and will continue to love Coho. This is an aspect that worries and scares me: The acceptance of my family. They are very loving and supportive and non-judgmental, but I know this affects them, even if they don't say it. It makes me really sad for my wife.

Must be my age talking here. Never considered Vietnam and vacation as being used in the same sentence before...

When I was 19 it was the last place on the planet I had any desire to go. I had friends who went and never came back...

Mark

Oh Mark, I'm sorry to bring up bad memories. The US left the war the year my wife and I were born. I love the food of Vietnam, which is a primary reason to vistit. My father, who missed the draft for health reasons, recently toured Vietnam and enjoyed it. So did my brother's girlfriend. I can certainly understand why a vet would never want to return.

ZW,

I was never in Nam myself. I have friends from there and a couple guys I hang our with from Cambodia as well.

I love the food myself. I just never considered Vietnam as a place to take a vacation and would guess it to be a generational thing.

I know a lot of younger guys that I would bet won't have Baghdad and Kandahar at the top of their list of places to visit.

I missed going because I was number 213 in a year they only took through 211 in my county...Was the first year they had the lottery...(That was one lottery nobody wanted to win.)

As for your sitch...It will be what Coho does for you that will allow you to heal. The more she does, the faster it will go and the more secure you will be in the end.

You're right in wanting her to figure out her side of this. She may never fully get it, but as long as she has a method of preventing another such episode you should make it without a repeat.

It seems that everyone who has an affair says "I didn't know it could happen..." Can't say that a second time...

Hang in there. Enjoy the hysterical bonding. It usually doesn't last long, I'm sorry to say...

Mark

You're welcome, Zen. I'm impressed both you and Coho are here, trying to get through this.

I agree. Telling her what's wrong with her will likely make her defensive. You can't change her so don't think you can. Only she can change her. You can tell Coho and should tell Colho how YOU feel and what YOUR ENs are.

And if she wants to recover the M, she will do the work. And you will see this. If she is not sincere, you will know it.

My H and I ebb and flow through highs and lows. Sometimes we're at the same place on the roller coaster ride at the same time, sometimes we're at the extreme opposites. Hopefully you can lean on each other during times of "quiet", and understand each other's needs at that time -- whether it's solice or shared company. Make sure you're communicating so that opportunities for misunderstanding don't arise. When my H clams up, I get nervous, thinking the worst that H is done with me. And H has shared that when I'm quiet and avoiding, he gets nervous because he thinks I'm thinking of FOM.

Acceptance of what?

Why are you sad for your W? If they are non-judgemental and supportive of your M, they will take their cues from you, Zen. If you fight for your M and treat Coho with respect, your family should follow your lead.

Coho didn't come home from work last night. I got a couple texts from her really late - as in 3:00 saying she was helping clean up after a busy night and was almost done. Then nothing. Still nothing.

Here we go again. I thought this was different.

I'm so sorry, ZW ... looks like its time to "Lawyer Up" and protect yourself.

I'm sorry, Zen Wolf. I really am. If it's any consolation, the process IS going to have setbacks. Even the strongest of people have moments of weakness. The first step is GETTING her back home. Don't accuse. Don't make demands. Be kind and gentle, but firm. Remind her that for this to work, she MUST be radically honest. Don't demand it from her, just remind her. It has to be her decision. It sounds like she wants to try to make things better. I'm not condoning her behavior at all. Just trying to encourage you to encourage her. I know it's hard right now, to WANT to encourage her, and be kind. But it's what you need to do. Like grandma always said: You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Good luck. I will be praying for you and Coho.

Setbacks? Maybe you havn't read much of my thread. This is going beyond the level of setback. I have her bag packed on the front porch. I think she'll come home at some point to get cleaned up for work again today.

About the only thing that will keep her from losing me for good this time would be if she's in jail or in the hospital. I can't think of any other excuse that I could swallow.

So sorry, Zenwolf. You have done everything you could have possibly done. I have to say that I believe this is a way of life for her and it will take an enormous effort on her part to change. You can't change her. But you shouldn't wait around for that eventuality; you have endured enough abuse. I hate to ever agree with MyRev, but I would agree that it is time to lawyer up. So sorry, friend..

Thanks Mel. Yeah, I was there three weeks ago and decided she was doing the work and her attitude was in the right place. No hurry to talk to the lawyer right? Well, I think I got my sign. It's incredibly painful. I was feeling so different this time around. She was being so different. I wonder what changed. I wonder if he came into her work or something. Oh well, it's been on her shoulders for awhile. If she can't do it, she's not for me. Again, I'm sad and kinda numb. I had really started to hope again.

Zen,

Just caught back up with your thread after some Navy travel. Wow! What a fast turn, I was feeling very positive for awhile as I am sure you were.

Zen, I am so sorry. I really am.

I have to disagree with one of the above posters. I don't think you should allow her to return home. Keep her bag on the porch and tell her to leave.

You will not catch this fly with honey, that is for sure. I told your WW she is the west coast twin of my WW. She just proved it to me.

I agree with MyRev, lawyer up. Kick her butt to the curb.

That is only thing that will ever get her attention. You need to protect yourself and your emotional health. This is too much for one man to bear.

Beware of the lies and excuses that are coming your way. After what you have been thru, alone and together, only hospital documentation that she was unconscious from right after she texted you would suffice for me, prob not even that...

SWW, thanks, yeah, the writing is on the wall. I think if this last FR wasn't a strong enough reason for her to maintain some self-control, she doesn't have it in her.

I know, there's simply no story that could possibly make this better. I need to wake up see her for who she is. Damaged and broken and not the woman I can spend the rest of my life with. I feel like I'm living with an alien.

I predict it will be:

1. Flimsy excuse possibly attested to by dishonest friend.
2. Anger, with, "Yeah, I did it! So what, I hate this recovery crap!"
3. "Oh Zen, I am sooooo sooorry. I don't deserve you. Please forgive me. You are too good for me."

Don't fall for any of them ZW.

Stay in touch with us today if you can.

This is hard. Yesterday morning I was crying and she comforted me and apologized. I told her that I worry she'll get frustrated and just run away again. She said, "stop worrying about me." Sounded like a statement of commitment to me.

I don’t know what to expect. If it's anger, I will be very surprised. What does she have to be angry about at this point? The recovery had been going so well. I sure didn't do anything out of line. She's acknowledged over and over that it's her mess. She can't take it back now. Even if she tries, it goes nowhere with me.

I'm sorry Zen. I'm not surprised. Reading her thread, I thought the answers just a mite to flip. I didn't see any remorse or regret but chalked it up to how hard it is to read those feelings from a message typed on a computer screen.

Oh I'm back to the obsessive gut-wrenching pain again. I hoped I would never feel this way again. Just day before yesterday I talked about being cautiously happy.

I can't believe the woman I loved can do this. I just can't believe it. I can't believe there's no core in her that she can rely on. I can't believe everything has been for nothing. My marriage and my family are EVERYTHING to me. EVERYTHING. I can't stand to lose it. I can't stand to do this to my children.

I am having so much trouble seeing my wife like this. It's just not who I thought she was. I can't believe this mess. I can't believe she chooses destruction. I can't believe she'd do this to me, let alone our children. I'm so so broken. I just don't have the strength to keep going through this. I have to see her for what she is, not what I want her to be.

ZW,

FWIW, I think every BH that has ever been on this site has had these same thoughts at one time or another.

IT SUCKS!!!

However, the quicker you can wrap your mind around this TERRIBLE truth and reach the point of indifference ... the quicker your life will turn around FOR THE BETTER.

As a fellow BH, I wish you STRENGTH to endure what you are about to experience. It WILL get better, but not before it gets worse for a while.

Zen:

Bag packed is good.
The rest of the story doesn't really matter.

Many around here have been where you are at. A WW who continues to go out with OM(1) or OM(2) whatever, after Dday. Having one that came here and posted, and seemingly had started to realize the errors of her ways, is unusual.

Bag being packed is appropriate.

There is nothing to say. EVERYTHING is in her court now.

Monday is a good day for lawyers...

LG

have been where you are at around here