Well here I am. I never in a million years thought I'd be here. No I'm not the victim, I'm the cheater. I can't believe I'm saying this. I have ALWAYS looked at cheaters as the lowest of the low. And now I am one of them. More than my own pain is the pain I have caused my wife. The woman who's only mistake was giving her ultimate trust to me. I actually haven't seen where this goes or if I even belong here. I hope someone can help me. All I want, all I've ever wanted was to have the kind of special undying love of my wife. Not any wife, but MY wife. The woman I fell in love with and carried both of my children.

Here is our full story. Sorry for the length.

Her brother and I have been best friends for years. We always knew each other but never had any romantic feelings until we were in our 20s. One Christmas, when no one was around she kissed me. I couldn't believe it. SHE liked ME?? I'd had girlfriends but I always pursued them. Never the other way. We started dating, but kept it secret for fear her brother would get angry at me. Silly when I look back but true. After a few months we decided that this was real, and I spoke to her brother. He had already known but gave us his blessing knowing I wasn't going to screw her over.. (That hurts right now to say) About 3 weeks later on her birthday I told her I loved her. I knew it long before that but I had to tell her. She was floored. We dated for about a year and I decided she was teh one I wanted to marry.. I spoke with her parents and planned to ask her.. It was beautiful and I was as happy as I'd ever been. We planned our wedding for about a year and 3 months from the engagement. An amazing wedding. Our friends and family still talk about it as one of if not the best of the groups. Just a happy great time for everyone. We got an apartment a couple towns from where we grew up and started our lives together. She had the better job and made more money than me. Not a problem for me, but I know it was odd for both of us. Eventually we had our first major 'money fight' and it came up. I could see that disappointment in her face and I knew I had to change everything about my professional outlook to never see that face again. Through some friends I got a job for almost double my salary. Things got better right away. She could see that I was serious. A year and a couple months into our marriage we started looking at houses. However, something in my wife had changed. She was a little distant and started having 'bad days'. We found a cute little house not far from our apartment and we bought it. The pressures of buying the house got to her I think and she slipped into an anxiety driven depression. I thought I was helping by being comforting but I'm finding out now through therapy I was projecting my own issues on her by doing that. (more on that later). After she got some help, reluctantly, we continued forward with our lives. We talked about babies and agreed it was time. The first pregnancy was possibly the most amazing moment of our lives. We created something together. Unfortuately the baby was unable to continue. We lost the pregnancy early on and it devastated us both. We joined grief counseling but my wife was slipping back into depression and having a lot of anxiety. I continued to stand by and be supportive but not actually do anything to help. (Again, I can see that now) We tried again and this time we had our daughter. The saddest part was that so much of the pregnancy was spent worrying if it would last that we didn't always enjoy it the way we should have. But once she was born, it was one of the happiest days of our lives. For me 1 of my top 3. After our daughter was born my wife slipped into a very bad post-pardum depression. She lost a lot of confidence and self worth. feeling that she couldn't provide properly for her child or me. She was unhappy with her own physical appearance as well and our intimacy sufferred. We shut down to each other and both just felt things would get better over time. During her depression I tried anything to make her happy, but my efforts often fell short. We re-did the kitchen in our house. Changed our bedroom. Anything she wanted to be happy but it was all just covering up things never actually fixing them. We also got ourselves into money troubles. We figured out a way to fix that and then decided to look for another house as the neighborhood we were in was starting to turn for the worse. We found a bigger house on bigger property in a better neighborhood. But it needed a lot of work. Again something to focus on while avoiding the growing distance between us. After about a year or 2 in the new house and another bout of depression for my wife we decided to expand our family. ABout 2 weeks later she came to me with a positive test. She wasn't even fully off her birthcontrol. Well feeling blessed and excited we went to the doctor 4 weeks later. Once again, excitment turned to heart ache as this preganancy would also terminate early. The bounce back this time was quicker and we decided to try again. We had a few months of trying and finally we were again blessed. At our 10 week sonogram a problem was found. 12 weeks was again confirmed 'something' was wrong. Finally we got an amnio done at 16 weeks and it was determined we had our son but he would have Down Syndrome. Again our world was turned upside down. We each did what we do best. She closed up in her depression and I avoided the issue and my feelings. At this point in my life I was spending a lot of time online. I was playing an online video game and just constantly surfing the web. Our son was born with Down Syndrome and as they ran the necessary battery of tests we got a very welcomed thumbs up. He seemed quite healthy. None of the typical DS related health issues. That lasted 2 months. One morning he seemd very pale so my wife brought hi to the pediatrician where he stopped breathing and turned blue. He spent I believe 6 weeks in the hospital at this point. The relationship between my wife and I became updates and hellos and goodbyes as we saw each other at the hospital changing shifts. I know it seems like doom and gloom at this point but I still always felt that we were going to make it through this, together. Our daughter had a tough time dealing with this as well but we have an amazing support staff in our families. That made things as special for her as they could. He would be in and out of the hospital over the next 6 months.. almost once a month for 3 -5 days each time. In addition we now had a nurse in our house from 9pm to 9am to care for him while he slept. His bedroom is next to ours. Romance went completly out the window. During my time online I had signed up for Facebook at someones request at work. I didn't like it right away and forgot all about it. One day about 10 months ago I got an email from an old friend.

The typical remember me heading. Yes this is where it all begins. This woman and I have known each other on and off for 14 years. We were friends at 13. We lost touch growing up and met up again in our 20s. There was one drunken 'hook up' not full sex but almost. We discussed it and let it go as we are just to good of friends it would make things weird. 2 months later she got back with an old boyfriend and I never heard from her again. Until the Remember ME email. Right away we chatted like it was old times. We told each other all about our families and our lives over the last 10 years. the Good the bad and the ugly. She had some very difficult years with an abusive, cheating husband and was in the process of finalizing a divorce. Her younger brother had also been killed less than a year earlier and she was still dealing with that. I had brought her up to date on the heart ache and pain my wife and I had gone through. We found some comfort in each others misery I guess and we also talked about stuff from years earlier. It was nice to escape, unfortunately thats what I'd been doing for so long I didn't realize the depth of how bad it was. Unfortunately she became my confidant. I could talk about anything with her including my rpoblems with my wife. Something I never shoudl have done. I see that now. We carried on this emotional support for each other for a few months. At the same time I found that my wife and I were at a point where something had to change and in speaking with this other woman and hearing about her success in therapy I thought it was a good idea for us. When I suggessted it she took it hard. She hadn't really felt things were bad between us. She just felt that with all we had been too things were just tough and we needed time to get through them. But she reluctanly went along. Things for us changed for the better immediately. We were communicating. I felt better and closer to her. My online chatting dwindled and it was feeling like a normal marriage again. But romance still wasn't there. The few times we did try, I was having my own performance issues. This was something that has plagued me on and off my whole life. I don't know if it is nerves or what but sometimes things are fine and sometimes they aren't. Well she took this very personally like something must be wrong with her if I couldn't become excited when it was this long between times. But it would be the moment or even some time into intercourse where I would 'lose it'. ( I really can't believe this is going online right now). So my online chatting had resumed again, but at a much less rate. Then about 2 months ago things changed. I started asking her more questions about her sex life. Since she was now single I was just curious I guess. Seeing how close we had become she felt comfortable talking to me about things. Well soon after this our flirting started. I'm sure I started it and it began with IMs and then went to text messages. But this is where my obsessive issues come into play. I began texting her constantly. All the time.. everyday 2 3, 4,5 times a day. The flirty sexual messages started when I texted her one and she was in a meeting. She said it flustered her and that was my que to keep it up. We would text erotic things back and forth trying to 'one up' each other. There wa a certain naughty forbidenness to this but still I never thought much of it. How texting someone other than my wife 5 times aday sexual messages could be viewed as anything other than wrong is a problem I'm working through now. I never met up with the other woman. We joked about it. I even told her I was outside her job one day.. But I wasn't. I could never bring myself to meet her becasue I knew that would or could just lead to more.. In my mind it wasn't really cheating becasue there was no physical contact. it was just words. Unfortunately that is exactly what is hurting the most. I had started referring to her as beautiful, sexy and gorgeous. I would text her in the morning saying Good morning beautiful.. I get physically sick when I think about it now.. how could I saying good morning to someone and call her beautiful and it not be my wife.. I also texted her on special days. On our anniversary and also the day my wife and I had come home from a special trip together. A trip where we were able to reconnect and had seemed to really turn the corner together. We were apart for less than 20 mins and I texted her hey sexy how was your weekend? It was never even a thought of how wrong this was because it was really in my mind as not anything but fun.. just joking around.. But it has hurt my wife so much. My wife saw a message from her on my phone and then looked through the history.. Yes I left them on my phone for whatever reason.. 200+ messages.. It's been about 10 days now. We were lucky in that we had couples therapy the night after she found the messages. We went in and I confessed the affair. The wife went back to the therapist the next night for special counseling one on one. In the end both the wife and therapist had agreed that they didn't believe me about not meeting her or physically touching.. The evidence was overwhelming to say I did. I know that. But I can't prove to either that I never met her. It was now 2 days later and I still hadn't gotten upset with my wife. She would cry and berate me and I would just sit there like a child getting yelled at. I couldn't show her any emotion.. That was really what she wanted. I cried with everyone I spoke to. I told my parents and family. I told the friends she said she wanted me to tell. I cried every time talking about how bad I hurt her.. I couldn't show her how sad I was. I called the therapist and asked to please see me as I was afraid this would be the end for us. She agreed and we got down to business. By the time I left there, she had told me to let my wife know that She believes there was no physical touching and probably never would have been. She also felt like this may become a huge moment in our relationship. I felt great.. I felt like we had a chance still but she made it clear I had tons of work. 3 days later the therapist had asked to see us again. We sat in her office and she explained some things she wanted to same from both of us. One thing being we needed to spend some time together not thinking or talking abou this. We had a great day together with the kids. But by night time when the kids were in bed, she said she felt like I was just getting away with this.. getting away with hurting her and the pretending wasn't working. We had a tough few days over the weekend. It was our scheduled day for therapy and we went. There was a lot of anger again. She was still angry that I couldn't get upset. That I still hadn't shown her how bad this was hurting me. She felt like I didn't care how upset she was. Her and the therapist went to work on me expressing how angry she was and how crappy of a husband I've always been. I started to break down but not really. All I could do was sit there and try to say the right things. Not speak from my heart. The therapist scheduled me for private therapy to get past some emotional issues we have found. Stuff that started at a young age but contributed to this right now. Then she said if I can't give my wife the emotion she needs we need to talk divorce. I can't even believe we had come to that. That texting stupid things with someone had led me to talking about divorce. I got home and minutes later I was alone in my den and crying like a baby.. everything rushed out. How bad I had hurt her.. How bad I betrayed my promises. How I was hurting our kids. How divorce would destroy everything we had built together and been through together.. the stuff that made us US.. She walked in to see me there and asked why I was crying.. I unloaded.. I told her how I couldn't possibly live with out her.. without my kids.. How I would never make it. I told her how much it hurt to see hatred in her eyes when she looked at me. An hour later and I could see some of the anger was gone. Before she went to bed she put her hand on my shoulder kissed my head and said she still loves me and went to bed. I cried for another 20 minutes knowing that there is a chance. That was 2 nights ago. Last night she went out with her oldest friend. She told her the tale and didn't get home until almost midnight. I tried so hard to stay awake in case she needed to talk. But I could feel the anger when she walked in. We talked a little and she said she felt like I was just content with my one breakdown and that I need to continue to show that emotion. She needs to know that this is consuming me.. We stayed up for a bit and then I fell asleep. Today was her first day back at work and it didn't go well. She was distraught and texted me to let me know it. I had promised her to let her know how often I was thinking about her and us. I'm at my desk and our wedding song came on. I texted her saying how sorry I was and that our song was on and I wish I could go back to the first night when I held you listening to it. She texted back You're and [censored] and I hate you right now. She called a little while later saying how mad she was that I fell asleep last night. She said it obviously doesn't mean as much to me because I was able to sleep.

I know I've left out some details but this is too long already. I guess now I'm going to post this and see if I get attacked, banned, or just ignored.. I apologize again for the length but something inside me feels like people need to know the full story of us to make a true judgment on us as a couple. At this point I'm not looking for comfort but for ideas. Something that can help me get my wife back. I love her more than anything. I see that now, unfortunately. I just hope it isn't too late. If you have any advice I'd appreciate it. If you need to bash me, that's fine too. I know I deserve it.
Thanks, Mike

Hi Mike

Welcome to MB. You have come to the right place. There are plenty of people about that have been in your shoes and your wifes.

Hit notify and get yout thread moved to General Qs II, you'll get a more help, advice and beatings there.


ST

Roll your sleeves up Mike because you have a lot of work ahead of you...

Make an appoinment for a lie detector. If you have never seen OW since childhood then the physical nature should be pretty clear cut.

Have no contact with OW in ANY way, shape, or form. If she contacts you, tell your wife and DO NOT RESPOND. The last contact you need to make with OW is to firmly tell her that you will no longer communicate with her EVER from now on. Write a letter and post it here to make sure it is clear and concise. Then show it to your wife and send it to OW. Wash your hands of OW forever once the letter is sent. There are some sample letters floating around in various threads.

Realize this will take a long time to recover from if your BW is still interested in recovery. You have no idea how devastating reading those texts were and the wounds are very deep. Whatever happens, do not lie, distort or withhold information thinking you are sparing her feelings. That will only make matters worse.

All is not lost but you need to be ready for the long haul. Recovery is not easy.

The MC ... this one is the kind that WS dream of.
The A must be talked about, as much and for as long as the BS needs to. It cannot be swept into the closet.

The MC needs to go. Call the Harley's for advice.
Get the books on this site. SAA, HNHN, and LoveBusters.

Reread your post Mike, underline everything that is about you being a mess/crying, then go back and underline everything about hurting your BW.
There is a huge discrepancy between the two.
There is quite a bit a detail and emphasis on the texting.
Will your W be reading this??

100% agree on the poly. Book one for yourself now.

OK. I'm willing to do anything. I truly am.

She has told me at times that she wants to work it out. She even said in therapy that she wants to start moving forward, but then she feels like by doing so she is just letting me off the hook. I just can't understand why I won't show her how much I'm hurting. I guess this was our problem long before this Affair.

She actually made me call the OW the night she found the texts. I told her then and there that I would no longer be in contact with her and she said she understood. The OW also sent my wife an email apologizing for letting this get out of hand. She tried best she could to explain that it was never meant to be more than just text flirting. And how wrong she now realizes this was as well. She said she also would never contact me again.

Right now my wife is telling me that the part killing her the most is my lack of emotion to her. I just can't explain it. I am crying right now as I type this and think about the hurt on her face. Why can't I show her when she needs me to??

Thanks for your advice black_raven

'' One thing being we needed to spend some time together not thinking or talking abou this. We had a great day together with the kids. But by night time when the kids were in bed, she said she felt like I was just getting away with this.. getting away with hurting her and the pretending wasn't working. We had a tough few days over the weekend. ''

Mike,
Almost two months after my D-Day, I said almost the same thing to my FWH. While I had said I forgave him and would never leave him, I had the same feeling that he was getting a free pass for his terrible betrayal. Reading your story, I (obviously a gullible person) believe that you never had a physical relationship with this OW. For your wife's sake, I hope this is the the absolute truth. As our MC told us, a marriage is like a three-legged stool with each leg representing necessary components of a successful marriage (friendship, family, passion). You had taken away the leg of friendship. Your marriage/stool could no longer stand on the two remaining components/legs. Add your erotic messages to and from the OW to the best friend status you had bestowed on her and you have successfully wounded your wife as successfully as if she had been raped or had endured the death of a child. Your BS is officially in the PTSD category now. She will be tender and loving and forgiving one moment and then she will be disgusted by you the next. My FWH vowed upon discovery to love me and help me recover. I told him that loving the new damaged me would be even harder than loving the old me had obviously been. He says he is in it for the long haul, and we have some wonderful days and then we both have some dark days. I pray that both you and my FWH will have the strength of mind and character to love and support wives whose worlds have been blown apart.

Vittoria,

I appreciate your response and I'm probably not conveying things properly. The MC said she wanted us to try and get away from it for just a bit. We had been consumed by it for 7 days at that point ( I know that's not long) but I think she just wanted us to see each other again outside of this so my wife could even think if she still wanted to be married to me. That's how I took it. She has also stressed that ANYTIME my wife is angry sad or anything she needs to let me know it. I have been bombarded with texts, messages, and phone calls the last week (and rightfully so). Everything from name calling to crying to yelling. All deserved.

Now as far as me focusing on ME crying, I pretty sure this also wasn't conveyed properly. That's what I feel like everything is about right now. She doesn't see emotion from me and it gets her angry. She can't believe that I seem so unaffected by this. I know this just seems like I'm defending myself but that's not what I'm trying to do.

I really do appreciate the advice and welcome all of it.

I understand both your reasons for the Poly as I'm sure you don't believe me either. And I will certainly do it. But is it just something for me to hand her and say see I didn't do it?

Goldenyears thank you.

One thing my wife said to me was that I made a fool of her with all this. If I continue to lie to her I'd only be continuing to do that. I won't do that to her or anyone else.

When I mentioned my own counseling it is actually a completely separate therapist. So aside from working on my own confrontation and communication issues this will have no direct impact on my counseling with my wife.

I hope that in time I can be here and help someone who has been hurt and like you explain how we were able to heal and come together again. I know it's a long road, but right now I just want to know that there can be hope.

Do you think you are just still relieved that it is out in the open and that you are not betraying her anymore? Relieved that when you look at her now you're not hiding anything

Looking back I didn't get very emotional infront of my H when it came to discussing the A. I was more upset whilst it was going on and I was in his presence.

Also it may just be the protector in you overriding your emotion - you're just subconsciously "being strong" for your W. You may find that if you can't cry about it with her now, you will do when she is further along the grieving process and feeling stronger herself.

Make sure all your other actions show remorse. Does she now have your phone? Access to your email etc etc, if you still cn't show the emotion to her.

No! You let HER choose the polygrapher and set up the appointment. She will give the examiner a list of about 10 questions (he'll help her with that).

Welcome to MB. You couldn't have found a BETTER place to get help. You might even encourage your wife to post here on her own thread, we can help her too.

It's been said that it can take 2 YEARS or LONGER to heal. Be patient, this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Have you read Surviving an Affair? His Needs Her Needs? Two excellent books for both of you to read.

Mike, if your wife is up to it, ask her to post on here as well.

My husband had an EA (like you--an emotional affair--with no physical component) with a former girlfriend about 3 years ago. I'm still not over it. People tell me it's because he hasn't come completely clean. He swears he has and is tired of discussing it. Maybe it's me, maybe it's him. But I had to drag the details out of him bit by bit. He answered all my questions willingly but not, initally fully. So that's probably where my issue lies. Please take this lesson and don't repeat it. Tell your wife every little thing. Offer to take that poly--set it up yourself!

BTW, the worst thing he ever said to me was "it could have been worse"--i.e., it could have been a physical affair. Please don't ever say this to your wife.

uh, no Mike it's not just a piece of paper. Agree with Princess, book it with the examiner of your BW choice.

It is a very important piece of paper that will tell BW exactly what she is struggling with.

If you tell truths .... you have nothing to worry about. Right?

Doing this poly, which would be considered a part of 'just compensations' as recommended by Dr. Harley to recover after infidelity.
If your BW says a poly won't make a difference, do it anyway.

Okay, I get it about the MC.

Another valuable book is Lovebusters, on this site.

Does she read your posts????

No you should involve BW in the poly process. She will want to know that it's legit and you didn't just print off something you typed up on a computer or you didn't ask questions she would have asked. Involve her but tell her you want to do this for her if it will help her even a little bit. But also don't assume the poly is the end all be all. Your attitude will affect her. And the truth is there will be times she's not going to care what is the truth or what you do tomorrow because you can't undo your betrayal.

I for one was glad to see my H's pain and remorse but there is a limit. Don't forget your wife is the victim and you are the one that assaulted her.

Also, if there is any other dirty laundry out there come clean now. Last thing you want is to have your BW to start opening up to you again and then crush her with some other blow.

staytogether,

Thanks. I think part of it is that I'm still trying to protect her from more pain. Another part is my avoidance of painful moments. I tend to hide from them by just shutting down or ignoring. But I don't want this to be an excuse. I'm trying to get through this and over it as soon as possible for her. She needs to see my emotion. Those are her words. Yes she can see my phone anytime she wants. It's a work phone so I can't give it to her. But as I typed that, I guess I could ask work for a new number if that would make her feel better. She also has all my passwords. 2 email accounts, facebook etc.. but this was really all text and IMs. Also i'm in the computer industry so there is no records on my machine. When I've installed the programs I always disable those features. Done long before the affair started.

princessmeggy, thank you. I actually just looked up polys in our area. but as you said I will let her choose. Wow that is expensive, but no price on helping her heal. if this is what she needs then so be it. I will get those books. I know she got a book the therapist suggested but I'm not sure what it was.

Congratulations on your recovery. I hope to one day be there.

Mike-

If you're really interested in saving your marriage (and I get the impression you are), you MUST NOT "protect" your wife. What I mean is, you MUST answer ALL of her questions TRUTHFULLY and FULLY. Even if you think your answer is going to hurt her, don't lie to her or try to "soften the blow." A common saying on here is when a WS isn't 100% honest & transparent it's like death by a thousand cuts. Don't do this to her.

Saddle up, man. You're in for a long ride. I hope you're fully prepared to go the distance.

Mike, ask for a new cell number at work, dump the facebook account and any extra email accounts that you use personally. Instead set up an email account that you both share. Does she have access to your work email?

You will get a lot more help and responses if you go back and edit that first post...break it up into smaller paragraphs.

Also shortening it would help a TON. This is too much reading for a lot of us.

Ok, somehow I got through this monstrous first post!

Everyone is right...you are in for a LONG ROAD ahead of you. Best to settle in and realize that now.

It is IMPERATIVE that you somehow "get" what you have done to your W...browse around here and see the intense pain the BS is in. It's honestly the worst thing anyone has gone through...and the biggest issue is IT DOESN'T GO AWAY.

And remember this is a huge roller coaster ride...your W will be "up" one day and "down" the next. This is totally normal. IF you want to ride out this recovery FASTER, then it is up to YOU to be strong and not get impatient, frustrated or mad.

Hang in there and read, read, read here. Encourage your W to come here too, we can help her as well.

Welcome to MB.

You sound truthfully sorry to me and that you are not going to do this again. I do believe that you have not had a physical affair because the way you have been very open with this and shown your deep pain. To me it just seems that you are not hiding anything else. You have said so much, if you did have a physical affair it sounds like you would not have a problem telling all of us.

It was on the Dr. Phil show that a die detector expert said that the test it over 90% percent accurate if it was administered correctly and if the person was really telling the truth. I would call his show and ask they who they use and see if you can get someone that is affiliated with this expert.

You could be in my shoes which I believe is worse. My husband has been having a physical affair for almost 2 1/2 years that has brought a child into this world. He was not like you at all. He would say that it was over and cry and say all the right things for me to believe him, but he is just so addicted that he has not broken away from her. I know that he is very sorry and hurting too, but he is addicted is the problem. As for you, you did finally come clean and it sounds as if you still are and truly want to stay clean. Steve Harley here at Marriage Builders is a great counselor that is an expert in the field of infidelity.

Please read Willard Harley's books. I definitely suggest you read His Needs Her Needs first. Get those love points up fast. Next I would read How to Survive an Affair, unless you would want to read both at the same time. You have good weapons here in these books. Another book is Love Busters, a book that tells us how to avoid things towards our spouse that lowers love points. I have read them all, and even what I am going through with my husband's on going affair, they still work.

Cindy

Mike,

You need to involve your wife, but I suggest you set up a poly yourself. Unless of course, your wife wishes to set it all up herself, at which point I recommend you defer to DW.

Your wife needs to meet one on one with the person giving the poly to discuss a list of questions that she wants answers to. You are NOT to know these questions ahead of time.

Take the poly. They are 100% accurate when a professional is handling the wording of the questions.

This will allow you both to move past this stumbling block of the EA/PA question.

If you can get a copy of "Surviving An Affair" (SAA) and read it ASAP. Then follow it up with "His Needs, Her Needs" (HNHN)and you may get a glimpse into what you'll need to do to help recover your marriage.