I started a new thread, again because I can't change the title of the old one. I'm glad that y'all have still been so patient with me. DH is finishing up this project, he emailed me to tell me that his boss told him that the head guy is planning to extend him an offer, in the Northeast.

I'm relieved for him, because he was nervous that he had no open offers going. I'm not thinking that I want to move at this point, because while I'm working to keep an open mind, my long term plan is still to cut my losses, and I'm trying to be realistic instead of telling myself that it's going to change. But I would be willing to go on a trip up there with him or with the family to check it out if it's a good offer.

DH has worked for this guy at different companies on and off for over ten years now. This guy moved to this company in the Northeast solely to be closer to his daughter who lives there after living down here for many years away from her when he and his wife divorced and she moved away. So I think this guy would really understand DH wanting to be where his family is. DH has been working remotely for him for the last two years. Here was my response

"How would you feel about asking [him] how he would feel about hiring you as a remote employee?"

I'm a little nervous that DH may feel this as putting pressure, but I hope not.

Oh I forgot to say, I sent him an earlier response with a congratulations for the offer.

{{{ears}}}

That was very brave.

I rarely post to anyone else's thread as I feel so inept. However, it sounds as if you have really given up on your marriage. I wonder what is so bad about it that you feel that way? Would you, or anyone else mind offering me a summary of your situation the way someone did on my thread recently for a new reader? I'd like to understand your situation a bit more since you are always so nice and helpful on my thread.

I think your asking your husband about the remote arrangement is a great idea. If he's enthusiastic about that, and you're ok with the potential of more travel, then it could be a great solution. I guess though, I'm a bit confused because I thought there were other issues that were leading up to a separation. I wonder if you need to resolve those before tackling the move/remote issue?

SW, my history in a nutshell...

Grew up in a happy home, with a brother two years younger, with a lot of family and friends. When I was 10, my Dad left my mom to marry his coworker. He says he was no longer attracted to her. My mom remarried and had four more kids, but my stepfather was very violent and abusive to my mom and to us kids. I met DH and married him at 21. I was already pregnant then, not really an accident, we'd both said we wanted kids right away and we took no precautions. We had a lot of fun together, but we also argued a lot and were very critical of each other. We had our older daughter, and I taught school, and then we both fell off a cliff with resentment. I hated him for putting massive hours into work and out with the boys and he hated me for not keeping the house clean and gaining weight.

I resigned from teaching because I was burnt out with sole responsibility of our baby and first year teaching in a difficult school. If I'd had more experience, or the baby was older, I probably would have handled that with more grace, but at that point I was very depressed and stressed out and didn't think I could do it for another year. I went to work at a business that was losing money he had bought into before we married with the intent to turn around, but I had no experience in it. I worked very hard, but it was still bleeding cash. We got an offer to sell at a huge loss and we took it. This was DH's life savings, pretty much wiped out, so it makes sense that he wanted to stay at work all the time, even though he was on salary. I went to IC but I was still totally in despair that I didn't know how to turn this around into a happy life again. The IC made suggestions to work harder and I did but it didn't help anything.

At H's insistence I went back to college; we thought if I earned a better salary that might somehow resolve our issues. I hoped he would respect me as an equal if I did that. So I did that, again it was very tough, H started travelling extensively, and we had another baby at that point. We both had very unrealistic expectations of ourselves, and I was still very full of despair that we would never turn this around. They say what we fear, we create. We had a lot of good times, too, though.

H lost his job, and didn't work for a year. We moved for a job I was offered in the Midwest, and he found a job there before we got there. I did an internship there, went back with the kids to our hometown to finish school, and then took a permanent job there, and along the way H left his job and went from enthusiastic to threatening to take the kids away from me. So he took our older daughter, then 7, to LA to see if she would get an agent to do acting there, the way she'd done in our hometown. Nothing panned out, so he sent her back to me. Again we did the long distance thing, him working in California, Washington, and here in our hometown in Florida. I found faith there, though, and that gave me a lot of hope. That there was a plan for me and my family. That we were going to be okay.

I was able to get a transfer back here to our hometown, and the consulting group H was and is working for had work for him here. It was a joint decision, but H was very dissappointed that it hadn't worked out for us to move to LA at that time. I found MB when we were back, and also Alanon, but things got a lot worse in my marriage before they got better. I learned that it was bad for my marriage when I did things I was not enthusiastic about, so I stopped doing that, and kicked a lifelong battle I've had with my temper. I was no longer the same kind of mad and hateful and resentful when I came to realize no one can make me do something I don't want to do. It was like freeing myself from a cage. My depression lifted a lot, too, though the weight loss still doesn't come naturally to me yet.

My H and I were growing together, making a lot of progress, for a while. Two steps forward, one step back. We were in MC, and our issues came to a head, and I put my foot down about the angry outbursts and the mocking. I wish that I had understood that I could have done that from the beginning. But I'm glad that I can do that today. We do have a very nice life today. No more angry outbursts. Lots of UA and FC time together, when H is in town. I'm grateful that we can enjoy these things today. But I don't have a partner, someone who has my back like I have his. But I like having his back in the meantime. Again I would have loved if we could have started out like this.

Yes, I do still have those concerns. I have been very O&H that I believe that other folks are successful addressing these concerns every day, and I would like to address these concerns together. But H believes that he has already addressed my concerns and is not willing to explore that further. A valid choice, too. But not one that I am enthusiastic about.

I am working on keeping an open mind on the job offer. I definitely think we don't have enough information today. The last time he was given an offer with this company, they said they would take us as a package deal, like jayne talks about. If DH does not get work here, there are benefits to the kids to living in the same place as their dad, even if it's not our hometown. On the other hand, there are also benefits to the kids to having the stability of staying in their community with their extended family and friends they've grown up with. I have a family-oriented perspective, so I would tend to think kids are better off with both parents close by, even if it meant transitions in where they live. I am working on keeping an open mind, doesn't mean that I am successful with that right now. My actual feelings that I really really don't want to do that.

And I forgot to say, H got home last night. He said that he will not inquire about a remote position. He didn't think that the big guy would be more understanding just because he moved to be closer to his own daughter. He said that guy left a great job at a great company for an okay job at an okay one and if these were jobs that could be done remotely he would have asked for that in his own situation. I understand that makes sense to him. I'm not mad at myself for getting excited about that idea, in brainstorming not all the ideas are going to be liked.

Thanks for the story again, Ears.
I admire your willingness to do whatever it takes to improve your marriage. I wish I had that inner strength.

I'm trying my best to improve my 50% according to MB principles but there's a part of me that thinks H is just hanging around 'til something better comes along and because he'd rather not/can't afford to be by himself right now and he wants to be near the kids. And that as soon as his situation changes, he'll be out. And that's not acceptable to me. I know now that he's capable of incredible degrees of lying and lying by omission and that's not comforting in the least. At times my mindset is 'dump him before he dumps you'.

I will choose divorce over the alcohol issue though if it comes to that.

I'm curious how he seems to feel about you. Is there love there, or is it just a friendship? Is it even that? Is it like, if you would just go along with what I want to do, I'd love you to death and make sure you get whatever I can give you?

And I look forward to when you get consistent giving yourself credit where credit is due! (((OH)))



OH, it makes a lot of sense to think that. But at the same time, it's a DJ, and you don't want to hurt yourself like that. BEcause what you do to others, you do to yourself. How about, "I don't know why he's here, and I don't have the trust in him today to accept his answer if I ask him. But I'll share my concerns anyway. Because my goal is to get to know hiom better."



That was a very sore spot for me, leaving someone who may have an illness they have no control over. My grandpa stuck by my grandma when she got Alzheimer's and got very ornery towards him at times the last few years. She didn't recognize him, and she hated that what she thought was some strange guy was in her house and didn't leave. She kept telling him her husband was going to get him when he got home. I was tough. And if my DH is an alcoholic and not just a problem drinker, then he would have no more control over his compulsion to drink than my grandma had control of being able to recognize her husband that she was waiting for to come home. But there are lots of women who divorce their H's and still care for them when it's time later in life, so that alone I don't think is a reason to stay in the meantime while he's fully functional.



We're getting along really well. UA time, SF, all that. He says he does love me and that this is just who he is and I need to accept that. I have tried to clarify that I do love him for who he is, and that I'm not asking him for more effort, just that we work together, and he says that we are doing that. So I stopped repeating myself, because that's disrespectful.

OMG Cat H was away for three weeks but now he's back one day and it's loud and clear why this has to be temporary for now. We started out well, nice dinner together and all.

I think I've mentioned my mom has severe chronic health issues. Last year, I was talking to DH about how I felt bad that I can't really help her with that in any way. He had a really nice idea. He has built up a lot of FF miles with his work travel, and he offered that I could book my mom a trip to go visit one of my brothers and his wife out West. I let her know, but she didn't get enough time off from work to go. So this year, a few months ago, she told me she is taking time off at Easter, and can I book a flight for the two of us. I would love to go, but DD7's birthday falls that weekend, so I had to decline. H said to go ahead and book her the flight with his FF miles, but he dragged his feet on giving me his FF numbers. He picked me up at work today to take me to lunch, and I asked him for the numbers since they would be in his wallet, and I wrote them down.

But then tonight, after dinner, and I'm sitting down telling him what I'm finding, he's all mad and snapping and yelling. He says, "I don't know about this". That's great that he's identifying what's bugging him and sharing it out loud, but NOW TODAY after saying it was okay all along and my mom and brother are excited he loses his enthusiasm. He ripped up the paper with the FF numbers because I wasn't quiet enough in the ohone planning with my mom. It's in his wallet, so I got them and emailed them to myself. I know my priority is my DH over my mom and brother, but I am so frustrated that it's like this today.

Then tomorrow he'll say he's sorry and to book the trip. Too late. I already feel like I am fighting the depression falling down over me. I know there are good times too but nothing is worth living with this anger. I do have a lot more compassion than I ever did, for myself and for H. No one wants to feel so unheard like that. I am so glad to know today that life doesn't have to stay like this for me.

{{{{{ ears }}}}}

When you describe how things are going pretty good and y'all are getting along... I keep hoping... but you seem the most peaceful when you are most convinced that the best thing to do is a separation.

Not that you need to convince me, but I kept wishing something better for you.

Earlier today I almost posted asking you if your feeling of peace came from being in a state of withdrawal, or close to becoming a WAW - except you are being H&O that you are considering a separation.

I wonder if him "giving permission" after the deadline is passive aggressive? Do you get that on top of the other stuff? And you needing to be quiet on the phone with your mom, making those plans... I'm so sorry, I thought y'all were past such things. Had he been drinking?

So how does he feel about a separation nowadays? If he takes this job, does he know you plan to stay behind? Sorry if that's already been answered.

WAW? Ouch! Maybe there's a kinder way to say that? I saw a WAW more as someone who DJs that their H isn't capable of having a loving marriage. I don't assume that with H. I do ask my DH for what I need, just not in the heat of the moment. We had what started out as a nice conversation where I owned my half this morning. That I felt triggered to an old place where I wished I would vansih to prevent myself harm, and how I caught that and replaced it with a boundary, taking a little space in the house. I asked for what I would like, to discuss these concerns respectfully. And then let go of the response.

Was his response not what you'd hoped for?

What's WAW?

Ears, I didn't mean that as an insult at all! I didn't realize that the term WAW was so emotionally charged for you. You've told me you thought I was on the verge of being a WAW before. Is that what you meant? Maybe I've got the wrong idea of what it means, but I thought it just meant a wife who was tired of trying to make her marriage better and stopped trying, was in withdrawal and left the marriage without there being an OP. Without any warning - and I said that was the difference, that you are telling your H.

Did I miss a post? I thought the new thread's title meant you are preparing to separate from your H. Especially with this job offer I figured if he takes it that you will not follow, and the separation wouldn't be just geography.

WAW = walkaway wife

I don't see it as a negative; more like a place of decision. Of strength, so to speak, because you're not caught in a web.

I can't help but put my own filter on you, that I look at life without H and just see...peace.

With your H, I also for some reason see another possibility. I see him with wanderlust, based on FOO, that drives his need to look for jobs elsewhere. Kind of like the old hobos. And I see a possibility that, once he gets to try it, get it out of his system, he may realize it wasn't as great as he thought, and come back, hat in hand.

What do you think?

WAW = Walk Away Wife

There's an article on this site I think, about men who were totally blindsided when their wives left them. I think the gist is, after years of arguing and fighting, there was finally peace in the home and the husbands thought things were going better than ever... because their wives just gave up and stopped arguing. Stopped trying.

If you watch the TV show "Brothers and Sisters" I think Callista Flockheart's character (did I get her name right? The actrress who played Ally McBeal) is about to walk away from her marriage.

Um yeah, jayne, pretty emotionally charged termed for me. My Dad walked out on us when I was 10 and my brother 8. Honestly if I saw it was realistic to think that H and I both had the willingness to do this, even if not today, then I would stay and fight and fight and fight and not let up. Like Stella sinks her teeth into something. I admire so much how she fought and fought and didn't let up and didn't lose hope and now she's got a marraige they both are so happy in. And it just kept fitting the two of them more and more over time, that's the real test.

And jayne I admire that about H too that he picked high goals and reached them and contues setting the bar higher for himself at work and keeps exceeding their expectations. He's gotten a permanent offer with every last one of the companies he's done sonsulting worjk for, even though if he's accepted they'd have a huge price to pay to the consulting coampany that they wouldn't pay for someone they hired out of the hundreds of resumes they get. I admire how he even when he's exhausted he spends quality time with his kids and is so close with them. And he gets even better and better as a father as we get these MB Concepts in our lives. He doesn't read here or the books, but just that one hour with Steve and me sharing what I'm doing. He calls the kids almost every morning and every night now when he's away.

But jayne there's a time when it just looks like it's not realistic or repsectful to keep fighting and keep hoping for something that only one person wants. One thing about all that listen and repeat, like Plan A, it really brings light to what someone does want.

He told me this week that I just have to face reality that I have to go with him wherever he gets hired. So while I do think that it's great that he's involving me in the fact finding process, I don't feel part of the decision process. I understand this is my perspective.

That's not just your perspective. That's your awareness that he thinks his needs trump yours. Grrr.