That wouldnt just be part of the withdrawal and stuff?

I am 100% sure it has ended. I have been checking everything and all.

I thought it took time to defog?

I apologize...it is very late and I'm not really thinking clearly.

Withdrawal will make them nasty for a while.

It takes time.

Hi Rusty,
You must be doing a great Plan "A"... Nice going! We all know how hard it is. Hang in there and keep doing whatever you're doing... the fog may be lifting... Don't educate her just let her talk and listen carefully...let her figure it out on her own.

Does your FIL like you? If she goes to him will he talk her out of a D? Don't worry about the text... she may not even respect the sender. Or know the sender has selfish motives like someone to hang with.

Good Luck and Prayers Frank

No, FIL does not like me. He is an a$$ and even bought her a house and furnished it for her. Her rent...$150 a month so she can easily afford it. He has taken away a lot of her incentives for returning home. Telling her the kids will be OK and all that. Filling her head with crap. His wife told her when the A started that if it made her happy to go for it. It's all about her feelings. Commitment or anything else doesnt matter to them.

Rusty,
Since he doesn't like you here is what I would do..
I'm guessing he doesn't like you because he thinks his DD would be better off without you.. Why he doesn't like you really isn't important...
I would approach him in person...I would say I realize you don't like me....but that we should start fresh...
No matter what happens I will always be the father of your grandchildren and I will ALWAYS be in their lives...and as a result I will be in your life...If I had done anything he may think was hurtful to his daughter I would tell him I am sorry....

I would tell him that I had changed and am completely devoted to my family... his daughter and his grand children. I would tell him that I will fight for my marriage with everything I have in me...because I love your daughter and my children...and I think that it is always better for the children to have BOTH parents living with them and rasing them...the GREATEST gift anyone can give a child is TWO parents that love each other..

I would tell him that I will do everything I can to provide for them and make them safe and happy. I would ask for a chance to prove that to him.

If he's any sort of a man he will respect that you came to him face to face. He may even help you. If he's not... at least you will know where HE stands and as the saying goes... "Keep your friends close.. but keep, your enemies closer" LOL....

Frank

He lives 2000 miles away so that is very hard.

I have told him all those things and he "says" he does not want to persuade her one way or the other and not get in the middle of it. He said he bought her the house because otherwise she would be homeless.

He is a hopeless cause. He wont stop a reconcilliation but he isnt helping it any either.


ETA: When she talks about some of this stuff, how do I speak my .02 about it or do I? That would seem to be educating her. She told me Tuesday night that she wants to make her decision with no pressure and blah blah blah. Said she would hate to wind up miserable for the rest of her life.

What can I say to her or do I say nothing at all and just be the best me I can and give it to God to talk to her and give her all sides?

She knows your two cents...all you can do is listen...and I think the most important thing is SHOW her you believe in her and that your love for each other is real and will be better than ever before. ONE OF YOU has to believe...
Listen more than talk... answer questions she may have with a POSITIVE attitude (fake it till you make it) Speak in future terms.. it breaks the fog down...
It's not begging or pleading.. it's an immovable belief in God's powerful will and the strength of your committed belief in how your marriage will be now that you have the tools you've gotten here....

About your FIL... it might not hurt to tell him again...and don't believe he doesn't have an opinion...he does...nothing pushy.. just share your feelings...too bad he's that far away...

rs,

It is painful to watch you continue abusing YOURSELF, by hanging on to false hope.

Oh well ... several of us tried to help you find some measure of inner strength, but obviously it has all been taken/given away.

It really is a shame!!!

I really don't see "False Hope" I mean his WW was SURE she wanted a D ... now... not so sure.. WAS in an affair and for now.. is not...(he's checking)
She's inviting him over and having a good time...His Plan "A" must be working to break down the fog....No?

PH,

I've read some of your recent posts and I think its fair to say that we view infidelity from completely opposite perspectives.

To put it in MB terms ... you represent the carrot and I represent the stick.

This has been discussed here ad naseum, but basically I am of the opinion that VERY few WW are worth investing the effort and pain it takes to R. IMHO, if a WW won't go NC immediately upon discovery and recommit to the M, there really is not much worth saving, at least nothing that any self-respecting man would tolerate for the rest of his life, when there are so many better options available.

rs is paralyzed by his own fears and his WW offers him a few crumbs just to keep her options open while she "finds" herself ... she has not changed, because the bar has never been set high enough for her to have any reason to change.

I'm sorry, but "FALSE" hope is the ONLY hope that rs has left.

You see "hope" because apparently the A may be over. However, I see that as "false hope", because WW is still sperated from rs and has NO INTEREST in recommitting to the M. You simply can't have a marital recovery with only one person putting forth ANY effort, and in this case, you really don't have either party making any meaningful efforts.

I’m not going to get into a debate on someone else’s tread….but I would like to address a couple of your points…
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course…



First off… this was written by pepperband not any of the Harley’s as I remember… Although a good strategy not a “MB Principal” and… it does state you need BOTH. So if I am the carrot and you are the stick as you said.. we are BOTH needed…...



Again… everyone is entitled to their opinion….. Then I guess Harley wasted his time coming up with all these things like Plan “A” and Plan “B” because as you say MOST WSs aren’t “worth the effort” . If WSs would simply go to NC immediately upon discovery why would we need this site…???

and BASIC MB principals teach us it was the needs WE didn’t fill that created the furtile ground in which an affair can grow… so if WE as (undeserving and mostly innocent) partners COMMAND NC… and the WS doesn’t heed our command… THEY aren’t worth the effort… Tell that to the kids in 10 years…..



Wow…what “self-respecting man” quits on his family….what “self-respecting man” can look into his children’s eyes 10 years from now and tell them he did EVERYTHING he could to keep their family together after QUITING when WS didn’t heed his ONE command and stop an affair he in part had some (not saying they have a right) part in creating the grounds for?

And "many better options"

Like going through life making the same mistakes over and over because the BS quit and never learned what caused the failure of thier first marriage...



Better tell Harley that…. Because he founded his ENTIRE set of PRINCIPALS on that very thing.. he’s wasting his time according to you…

As I said.. everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect everyone's But I happen to repect Harley's more than most when it comes to this issue... he has been at it for a lot longer than us all... God Bless, Frank

Rusty,
Don't let anyone discourage you. You have LOTS of hope!! There are MANY MANY MANY... as a matter of fact MOST recovery stories came after a LONG time asking for the WS to come home and stop the A....
I would gather that if on Dday my WS stopped the affair and commited to the marriage on the spot I wouldn't have had a need to even FIND MB..
I think that is the case for MOST...It's only simple logic.
If you get discouraged... go over to the recovery board and read some of the signatures.
VERY VERY few (if any) say:
WS 35
me BS 37
Dday 3/20/08
NC 3/20/08
Fully recovered......
So head over to recovery... look around.. maybe pick out a chair for the future.. you may be there soon...

Know what I mean? Hang tough.. you're doing fine...


Good Luck and Prayers.. Frank

Rusty...

What's been going on? What's up for Easter?

Sorry havent been around much. WW came to me this week and said she wants to fix the M. She has transferred so that she will not see OM any more.

I dont really know what to expect right this second. Seems to kind of act like Sue did to Jon in SAA.

What do I do now and what should I expect or watch out for?

THAT'S GREAT NEWS RUSTY!! PRAISE GOD!!

What next? That's hard to say... why don't you fill us in a little more to tell us what led up to this...

Lots of questions like:
Does your FIL support this?
Is she moving back in or are you moving there? Fill us in..

Don't worry if it's long...
Either way... Congrats!! You may want to find a place over at recovery and dust it off to get it ready for you guys...

GOD IS GOOD!!
Frank

The first thing you do is set your protective measures. She gives you all the passwords to all her phone, text, Internet, email, and everything else accounts. Better yet, she actually hands her phone and computer over to you for a month or two. You set up a post-nup agreeement in which, if she falls off the wagon and hooks up with another guy again, she forfeits house, money, kids, etc. (If she is not willing to do this...run away now). You agree where she will be allowed to go without you, if anywhere. You agree that she calls you if she makes any changes and gets your permission FIRST!

If she is not willing to do this, she leaves.

I already have all ofher passwords. I have always had them for years and she has never changed them. All of that sounds like a good idea catperson.

As for FIL, he is still an a$$. Since he bought WW a house last month and all, he has decided that he wants to dictate some reconciliation guidelines. I have told WW that is boundary issue with her dad and she needs to handle that.

He doesnt even want us living together for 3 months. Sounds like BS to me. Oh well, we have got to figure that crap out too now.

At least he lives 2000 miles away and has only ever come here once to visit for 3 days in the 14 years his daughter has lived here.

I have to go for now, I will be back in a few days to answer any ??? and to read everybodies insightful feedback.

My advice? Keep your %$%$#%## FIL out of your marriage! Sell the house and give him back his money and tell him kindly keep his big fat a$$ out of your marriage!

She completely quit her job. Now she never has to worry about accidentally running into him.

She seems down all the time and tired all the time. What was I supposed to expect out of the gate? Was she immediately supposed to start working her but off on the M or am I gonna have to carry it for a little while or what?

She says she wants to work hard to rebuild the M and all from the ground up and while a lot of her actions say that like quitting her job, she seems a little down and not working as hard as I expected to establish a connection. Is this withdrawal or what?

Wha kind of timeline is there for this stuff? Will she slowly get more involved and less passive? Dont get me wrong, she is doing quite a bit but she seems shy about really breaking through. Maybe I expected too much out of the gate? Any advice on all of this?

I dont know if I said it well for whats going on but I did the best I could.

And catperson, I am right there with you. I told her when her dad bought it for her that he only did it so that he could have control. He wanted to set the rules and wanted to control not only her but me. He has not liked the way I do things for a long time and he wanted his foot in the door.

He is they type that money is everything. If I worked 2-3 jobs and never seen my family it would be OK as long as the money flowed in.

Well, gotta go for now. Hopefully I will get back on in a few days.

Rusty,

Your wife's love bank for you was low which made her vulnerable pre-affair...

Then...

In order to justify and rationalize her affair she drained all the remaining love bank for you completely out.

She's home likely because it's the right thing to do and/or the affair ended (sorry...I'm not going back to read).

Sure she's depressed...she's home and has little to no love for you.

I went through this. It took many months of patience and baby steps. If you are journaling at all you should notice a trend of two steps forward...one step back for quite some time. There will be short periods of breakthroughs and when you least expect it FOG rolls in.

One thing to explain to her is that the MB method is predicated upon the fact that feelings will follow action. You explain that you understand she doesn't have a lot of feelings for you right now (and frankly, you aren't in total love with her either) but TRYING is the right thing to do and if you both commit to it for a year (performing loving actions and abstaining from love busters) you'll find yourselves in love a year from now.

In the beginning I suggest a couple things.

1. Get His Needs..Her Needs the CD Audio version. Take a road trip and listen to it together. Pause and discuss at will. The car is the best place to do this as there is little non-verbal communication, you're both stuck and there are no distractions.

2. Commit to going out this summer and having a good time. If you two were/are partiers, party it up. Cut her (and yourself) a break on the serious conversations as it's too early to really make a ton of progress. You'll also be avoiding some pretty hurtful conversations by avoiding them because she will say some hurtful things she really doesn't mean...she's just foggy. Somehow fit it in that this COULD be your last summer married to each other and you want to SEIZE IT. Either way...you don't want to look back at this summer and regret not enjoying it together. You also want to take the opportunity to REALLY get to know her as you've felt like an outsider to her inner thoughts for a long time ("Honey...if we might divorce, I, at least want to know the really you before it happens"). This will build intimacy without her really knowing that's what you are doing. Remember...because she's depressed she's not likely to be running around making plans...so YOU must make them and make her go.

Trust me...the FEELINGS will follow the ACTIONS.

Mr. Wondering