GL, I encourage you to continue posting on your thread. Your marriage is full of red flags, and this IS the best place to learn how to save it.

I am very concerned about you.

What snooping have you done?

Wow, its going to take me a while to answer all your questions and comment on your comments. And to start I will say that things have gotten better, even though we are still in financial hell. We've been less hostile and I'm back to sleeping in the bed.

I realized that after it seemed that he had given up, I had too. And I realized that I hadn't been a very supportive and giving wife. Something clicked in my head that I was basically saying, "If you don't care, I don't either" But that is why I have decided to become the beacon of hope around here. And that is unusual for me, because I am naturally negative. But I want to change things and I have to start with myself.

I went back and reread some of the posts and the best way I can say it is that my definition of flirting is different from all of yours. You can say that I am just really nice if you prefer. Because when I talk to people there is nothing behind it.

And just a quick note, when Dancing_Machine, who yes is my MIL, told me to come here she thought I could help others. Because at that time, my marriage was not in any trouble what-so-ever. I posted once or twice and then was treated again the same way I was this time. And she was able to convince me to come back when I was unsure about my marriage's future. But because I hope to become a counselor some day she thought I could help. I have read the articles here and printed out some of the questionnaires. And I understand that there is a specific path to follow, and I am sorry that I suggested things that are not exactly on that path. But that doesn't mean that I was going against Dr. H's ways. It may have seemed that way to you, but I not to me.

I realize that many of you are here because of something bad happening in your marriage. And I realize that you are only trying to help. However some of you have to understand that not every one is going to just fall in line to what you say. And that if you are rude about the way you say it, that is only going to make people hostile. I am personally an emotional person and do not take kindly to people thinking that they are better than me. I was not offended by what was said but figured that we could all be adults about the conversation. I realize that I am not a veteran at this, and I hope not to be. But that does not mean that just because my marriage is in turmoil that I can not provide some solace and a few ideas to others. But believe me I will no longer post to anyone else. Because I do not wish to offend others. I just hope that an understanding can be met here.

And despite how it may seem I do believe in the love bank and taking care of each other's EN's. However I was in denial and didn't want to place any of the blame on myself. I knew that he wasn't making deposits into my Love bank, but wasn't ready to consider that I wasn't making any in his. I was being very selfish and I realized that the less effort I put in, the even less effort he would put in. A lot of the problems in my marriage are my fault, because I give up to easily. And he has made me realize that. But I want nothing more than to be with him and to love him and to be loved by him. I still believe that I can not force him to love me, nor will I try. But what I will do is prove to him that I love him and that I am not ready to give up on us. I have always been jumping the gun and seeing things that aren't there. I have a problem with paranoia and that has been a huge problem in our relationship. But i will say one thing that I do not know if he is having an affair. I don't think so, just because of what is going on with his father and Dancing_Machine. And he has been cheated on as well, in fact I was the one that proved that to him 10 years ago. However I will not snoop. I used to do that before every time that I got paranoid. I would go through his phone and the computer, and never came up with any evidence. But I refuse to do that again, I felt horrible for doing it. I believe that deep down he does love me, he's just tired of all of the negativity. Therefore I will do everything in my power to remain as positive as I can.

And despite how it may seem I do believe in the love bank and taking care of each other's EN's. However I was in denial and didn't want to place any of the blame on myself. I knew that he wasn't making deposits into my Love bank, but wasn't ready to consider that I wasn't making any in his. I was being very selfish and I realized that the less effort I put in, the even less effort he would put in. A lot of the problems in my marriage are my fault, because I give up to easily. And he has made me realize that. But I want nothing more than to be with him and to love him and to be loved by him. I still believe that I can not force him to love me, nor will I try. But what I will do is prove to him that I love him and that I am not ready to give up on us. I have always been jumping the gun and seeing things that aren't there. I have a problem with paranoia and that has been a huge problem in our relationship. But i will say one thing that I do not know if he is having an affair. I don't think so, just because of what is going on with his father and Dancing_Machine. And he has been cheated on as well, in fact I was the one that proved that to him 10 years ago. However I will not snoop. I used to do that before every time that I got paranoid. I would go through his phone and the computer, and never came up with any evidence. But I refuse to do that again, I felt horrible for doing it. I believe that deep down he does love me, he's just tired of all of the negativity. Therefore I will do everything in my power to remain as positive as I can.

GL, I'm going to address your previous posts one more time, because there are some things I think are important to clarify. Then I will drop this topic with you.




Flirting is simply making love unit deposits in someone's love bank through admiration. It comes in all shapes and sizes, and may or may not have a sexual tone to it.





I find it baffling that DM sent you to Marriage Builders to help others when, 1) you've never experienced infidelity that you are aware of, and 2) you had little to no knowledge of the principles of MB.




This "hope" doesn't make your advice sound. And those of us who have implemented MB principles speak from experience.
Your advice is based on feelings, and when you learn more about MB, you will realize how quickly our feelings can lead us astray.



The articles are a good place to start.







In my above posts, I quoted your words and explained how those ideas DO go against Dr. H's principles.

You certainly have a right to post your opinions, even if they are based on nothing more than your feelings and have nothing to do with MB. BUT expect that when you come to MARRIAGE BUILDERS and offer advice that is in complete contrast to the program explained here, others WILL and SHOULD point out the flaws in your opinions. Otherwise, your well-intended but uninformed advice could most easily lead someone right into divorce when their desire is to save their marriage.




GL, nobody treated you as if they thought they were better than you, just more knowledgeable about infidelity and the Marriage Builders program--and they are.




See, GL, people come here under the highest level of stress. Many have just suffered the most traumatic event of their lives and will develop post-traumatic stress symptoms. Some are close to a nervous breakdown.

They come here to SAVE their marriage under conditions that seem utterly hopeless. When someone comes here, uneducated about MB and the dynamics of infidelity, but thinks they have much to offer, they often do a great deal of damage to the person's efforts at saving their marriage.

I will tell you that MelodyLane is one of the wisest people on this board when it comes to identifying the signs of an active affair and leading BS's through Dr. Harley's Plan A and B. She gives a great deal of time here to help people like me, who came here when their world crumbled and were in desperate need for a glimmer of hope. She keeps them on Dr. H's narrow path because if they stray from it, they almost always get lost in the darkness. She has been a literal LIFELINE to many of us. Yes, she offends some, usually because they don't want to hear the truth and she sees right through this. But because of her straight talk, she is able to cut through the confusion and hopelessness that most of us come here with.

She has much to offer you, if you are willing to become teachable. Your pride prevents you from hearing what is obvious to some of us reading your posts. We wouldn't post to you if we didn't see YOUR NEED for help.

I'm glad you're back. The person who believes he has nothing to learn...

Anyway, this struck me:
Being that you are considering becoming a counselor, I thought you'd appreciate the thought that assuming what someone else is thinking is the number one cardinal sin in counseling terminology. Right?

You will benefit from learning more about yourself to realize why you assume that just because someone gives you their opinion, it is based on them believing you are inferior. Probably nothing farther from the truth.

If you hang around here long enough, you'll see that the number one trait each and every one of us achieved here at MB is humility.

You can't fix your own life if you don't start by admitting its problems. If you read any threads, you'll see that almost everyone who comes here, comes with a 'he/she is scr&wing up our marriage and I'm disgusted with him/her' attitude. We sling a few 2x4s, they fight back (like you), we are patient and keep slinging and adding more info, until one day it 'clicks' and the new poster goes 'wow, now I get it! It's not him/her, it's ME!'

Now, that's not to say the spouse isn't doing something wrong. But the main MB tenant, I believe, is fix YOU and the marriage fixes itself.

So anyone commenting to you about your beliefs does so because they see a weakness in them that may cause you grief in your own marriage.

I'd also comment that this:
is a big red flag because it highlights deepseated personal issues of your own that need to be addressed before you can expect anything better from your H. I hope you're deep enough into learning about counseling that you can see that.

I recommend a phenomenal book that can help with this. It's called Healing the Shame That Binds You. I really urge you to look it up.

And good luck.

Now that sounds familiar. :crosseyedcrazy:


My FWH thanks me today for snooping, exposing, and working Dr. H's plans. He says I fought for him, for our marriage, and for our family. He and I both know that if I had not snooped and found out the truth, we most likely would be divorced now.

GL, I said it sounds familiar because I told Melody the same thing about 2 years and 3 weeks ago.

But...

she was right...

and I was wrong.

Because she knew what I was dealing with...

and I did not.

If I hadn't snooped, my husband would still be having an affair. I would still think that we were going through a rough patch. I would still think that it was me, my weight, his broken collarbone that never healed correctly, financial pressure, his acid reflux... You can make excuses and close your eyes or you can get the truth. There is nothing wrong with determining the truth. Maybe he is not doing anything wrong. I hope he isn't. You have to know what you are dealing with in order to make the situation better. For the last two years, I took everything that my husband complained about to heart. I gave him everything that he said he wanted. I worked myself to death. Nothing helped. He wasn't telling me the real problem. I had no clue. I didn't snoop until I was ready to give up and was thinking about divorce. I needed to know why we couldn't make it. Once I found out, I knew that I couldn't divorce. I was relieved because I finally knew what the real problem was. Now , I could do something. My husband ended the affair the day that I found out and I confronted him (and her). Once the barrier of lies was torn down, we could look each other in the eyes and really see each other for the first time in months. I had my husband back. It has been an excruciatingly painful experience that I would not wish on anybody (except maybe OW). The marriage builder concepts do work. They are not easy and they go against your natural instincts. Protect your marriage from the evil and pain of adultery. If you can keep your marriage strong, you won't ever have to know the pain of a BS. You cannot even comprehend how much it hurts. It is actual physical pain. My chest has actually ached where my heart is. I have thrown up in a restaurant (bathroom) when my husband took me out to lunch with coworkers the first week after dday and coworkers asked me jokingly about my husband's girlfriend- they didn't realize that my husband actually had a girlfriend. These are just a few of the physical aspects of the ultimate betrayal that adultery is. Don't be too proud to snoop. It saved my marriage. My husband didn't like it but there was no other way. Most WS never admit anything. You can ask until you are blue in the face. They lie.

Posting on her thread as if you didn't know her.

I reiterate:


I was trying to protect her. Gray is a very, very sore subject since this is his second time to trash a marriage because of adultery. ODS was totally freaked out and worried about it being possibly hereditary since both Gray AND Gray's father cheated on their wives.

I didn't want any negative cast over Lacey in any way because of my connection to Gray. He is my cross to bear.


Not our relationship but my relationship to Gray.

ROTFLMAO!!

Yeah, Bravos to my Doberman. More than a few, LOL! But he deserves major kudos for helping me learn how to be a human again and not feel like a "statistic."


I know you won't. But she WAS attacked, I wasn't the only one who felt this. It was like the scene from Excalibur where the crows are picking out the eyeballs of the corpse hanging from the tree.

ODS recognizes that he has similarities to Gray that he wants to eradicate. He can do it. I had to myself so I know. I think that is a good first step. Plus, both of them have talked with XW and now YDS and DD know about everything, too. It's not a secret anymore and this is a good thing as well.

As far as the "friend," I didn't trust her when she came back into the picture last year and she did an AWFUL thing to DIL, which I don't know if she wants to reveal here so I won't.

I feel like ODS should ditch the witch, she is NOT a friend to the marriage, much less either one of them.

So we'll see what happens with that.

Charlotte

I don't. She's good at helping others. VERY good.

Besides, we have a young whippersnapper here who posts advice all the time and has never even been married.

Charlotte

This is getting juicy again. Who is the young unmarried whippersnapper???

ROTFLMAO!!!



I'll tell you offline. I ain'ta sayin' it here, though!



Charlotte

Wait, let me get my pitchfork...
Okay I'm ready now.
:twobyfour:

DM, I find this more than a little disrespectful to the DEEPLY wounded people who arrive here. They're not in need of a head massage from a sweet amateur aromatherapist; they're in urgent need of serious surgery and intensive care. Surely you understand the difference?

I'm sure that your DIL is a lovely person, but from her posts, I get the impression that she's young, inexperienced, naive about relationships, touchy, and a little self-involved . All of which is perfectly reasonable for a young woman in her mid-twenties with no history of having battled her way through a major life trauma. I'm sure I was much the same at her age.

However, there's very little that a person of such limited experience can offer the kind of deeply wounded people who arrive on MB.

To send her here to seek help with her own marriage is one thing. To send her here to 'counsel' people who are dealing with a crisis more painful than anything she can possibly imagine, is quite another.

'Warm' and 'well-intentioned' do not necessarily equate to 'wise'.

OH MY GOD!!

Disrespectful? To want to help those in pain who come here? EVERYONE is needed here, sometimes just to talk to someone who will listen.

Initially she asked me if I thought she could be of help and I told her YES. Of COURSE!! Goodness knows once I got the plans going I came here just to have people to talk to.

It is NOT just all about the plans!

Good Golly, Miss Molly!!

:crosseyedcrazy:

Charlotte

I very much agree with TogetherAlone and thought she made a very good point. Its one thing to come here to chat with people, but its quite another to post ADVICE to grieving and heartsick newcomers when you don't have the slightest understanding of MB concepts. And that is exactly what she did.

This is why so many people on this forum have jumped in and corrected her, Charlotte. These newcomers are here to learn about MB, not about our personal, uneducated philosophies about marriage when we have no wisdom and experience ourselves. That does nothing but cause confusion and conflict on a newcomers thread. People don't come here to hear my crap or your crap, they come here to learn about Marriage Builders.

Meaning well is not the same as DOING WELL.

Would you consider it a virtue if I went over to the General Dentistry forum and gave advice on denistry to newcomers? What if I offered to do open heart surgery on my neighbor just to prove my altruism? Would that be a virtue even though the only thing I know how to do is sell soft drinks?

If it was "just to talk" it'd be different. But what about newbies who come here in pain ASKING for help/advice? Do you really think it's appropriate for her to be giving advice to them about restoring their marriage?

I don't.

Because those same newbies may think they're getting MB advice when they're not. I'll call that out every time no matter who it is. Sorry.

Are....you...serious.....

Ok everyone needs to go to there prospective corners and take a big BREATH.

The blaming an finger pointing needs to stop here and now.....seriously....EVERYONE HAS A POINT OF VIEW. That's why god gave us all individual personalities.

You guys are gonna have to agree to disagree on this and let it go.

I personally think we should have people of all ages adding insight....because I know my mom doesn't understand my point of view on things as we are from different generations......because everyone is different. Generations change and fresh perspectives from those younger people who are out in that younger scene should always be welcome.

Are....YOU...serious.....

This is an important issue especially for newbies.

Nobody is finger pointing or blaming. Hardly.

There ARE people of all ages who post here who GET IT. But MOST people don't start posting ADVICE until they understand MB and even then MOST give a caveat explaining their inexperience if they are.