Hi all,

In my "shop of horrors" (my thread), a couple of times I've mentioned entitlement and how I think it's a huge issue with our society.

I wanted to get others thoughts on this. Not so much from a marriage perspective, but people/society as a whole.

I think so many people just assume they are entitled to things. A job, money, cars, a home, education, love, children, health care, food, .....the list could and does go on and on.

I'm a person who was raised to earn everything I have. I understand the value of work. Even to understand the value of happiness. Never to expect handouts. I don't have much, but I lose it all and know I could always get back to where I am.

Many times, I think my WW feels entitled. I see that often my children feel entitled. With my children, I try to teach them the vaule of work and responsibility.
I tell co-workers about that and they think I'm an evil slave driver. My children look at other 8-11 year olds who have cell phones, endless number of video games, computers, and for all they have (my childrens peers) they do nothing to earn those things. The parents buy that stuff for the kids to get them out of their hair. The parents think they are entitled to their own time, their own leisure time, that their kids are just other possessions.

So any how. this whole entitlement thing is a hot button for me, and when I see it crop up in marriage I get really testy.
Because, what BS wants to hear: " Well I needed that _______"


Any comments?

Don't say "people/society as a whole". The majority of the world doesn't think that way. It is an especially American attribute.

I agree. It is the long term effect of decades of liberal-socialism, the cult of victimhood and the steady destruction of the American "can do" spirit. Unfortunately, the current regime is just accelerating the europeizination and emasculation of American society. How much longer wiil we be able to produce soldiers like the ones that just won the war in Iraq?

Duty, Honor, Country is a concept that is utterly foreign to many Americans today. Sacrifice is interpreted as raising your taxes and govt. binge spending.

I wasn't trying to make this a political discussion. Not sure that's within the TOS of the MB forums. Though there is that whole aspect.

Nor do I think this is just an American issue. More likely a developed country issue.

ANYWAY, Maybe it's better that this stick closer to marriage, relationships, and friendships. Or maybe how people's material feelings of entitlement spill over into those aspects.

No, politics does come into it heavily. Politics have a significant hand in shaping society. Politics is the cumulative power of our socieities beliefs and desires. So when we talk about entitlment it is safe to include politics.

Affairs are established on entitlement. Our society has a throw away culture and that includes everything. A marriage or person can be treated as an object that once it is old and crusty, people forget that you can clean it off, dust it, and repair it to nearly as good as new and it has all the sentimental attachments still in tact from the experiences that were created with it.

Part of a throw away culture is that we expect to always have something to replace the old with. Thus affairs.


Piojitos,

People/society is exactly right. He didn't say in the world. And he began with talking about the American society. *poke* *poke* Fixating on one thing is bad when you don't take the whole into account. ^_~

I still remember darning socks.

I know what you mean. I think entitlement has killed many a marriages and it is only getting worse. A lot of the values people use to have are gone. In my opinion it is very sad. Look at the ethics problems that got the country in trouble with mortgage loans. A lot less ethical people running things caused a huge problem in the banking sector. I came from a very poor family. I went back and found our old home from 40 years ago and I could not believe it. It would fit in my kitchen and living room and dining room. It was so small but my mom left and well the rest is history.

My XW and I did not have much when we started out yet I was happy in my life. I loved my wife and young children but she wanted more a lot more. So I tried to meet that need and before I knew what the hell happened my life went to hell. I knew there was a problem when one of my kids came to me complaining that they had "ONLY" one TV in there bedroom. The others had at least 2 TV's in their room. We had every video game system ever released. My wife decided that "WE" need to buy our kids cars. I told her no but they could use any of our vehicles. Well she made a deal with the oldest behind my back that he would get one of our cars. This caused a huge fight but to stay married I went along...She was good at winning the fights. She would just say she wants a divorce and I would cave every time. (When we split I had 7 vehicles with only 5 drivers. I had to get vehicles for all the kids since the first one got him.) Now I am to blame for a lot of this. I should have said no and held firm even to the point of divorce but I was just trying to be a good dad and husband.

My X then felt she was entitled not to work anymore so she quit. She then felt entitled to have boyfriend and have sex with him. That sure was nice of her except of course I had a woman who treated me like crap who had a boyfirend on the side and only wanted more from me. I started to see why she liked being married. If I could have been married not worked gone golfing every day and had sex with other women that were "HOT" to me I guess I can see why life was so great for her. The problem as a Dad I became an ATM and my kids and X never had enough.

I feel like I failed as a Dad. I left on my own at 17 with nothing and built a life with "THINGS" but I lost me. My kids feel so entitled I wanted them to earn their first car. Get a job and work toward something. All I really taught them is let Dad break his butt and get it from him. I think you are right a lot of it is our own fault though. Stick to your guns and make the kids earn their way. I have turned off my ATM to try and teach them working to get what they want. They are not entitled to anything.

I really would have given it all up for a woman who loved me. But as a guy you can be very nice and be a great guy and yet if you do not earn enough money....IT DOES NOT MATTER. Why because people feel entitled. When I busted my X in her mind (from emails sent to her OM) she thought she could get the house, cars, kids and get me out and move him it. She then told him she could get alimony and CS and OM could move right in. Talk about entitlement but reality set in when I kicked her out of the home. I guess the kids learned a lot from her but shame on me for not putting my foot down.

I agree with what you are saying, many people feel they are entitled to everything. My ww has tried to instill this in our DD's, as she would buy them anything they wanted when they were together.

She thought this was quality time, however all id did was make the DD's think they were entitled to what they want when they want.

We have lost the basics of work for what you want.

It was a big shock for the DD's when ww went away and suddenly they had to work for an allowance.

Ihadenough,

Thank you for sharing all that.

That's many of my feelings too. I think so much of what drives people today is beyond basic selfishness, and goes right to entitlement. "I'M OWED THIS"

People read and see movie stars and rich people born who "act" that way. So many feel they are also entitled.

How many meals a week are eaten outside the home? And at what cost? My WW works as a resturant manager, families pile in daily.
My kids are picked on at school because in each of their classes they are one of onle 2 or 3 kids that get's their lunches packed.
I do that each day. I do it for myself and many days, even though my WW works in a resturant, I pack her a lunch.


No we can't blame the banks....they were just doing what the customer was asking or felt entitled too. It's a trickle UP effect. Society was entitled to homes they couldn't afford, the banks found a way to accomodate.

To fix it, it needs to start on a family level. Families need to work together. Kids need values not a pile of throw away toys. Young adults need to get a job to buy a car, pay for insurance, and whatever maintanence it needs.
Funny aside about cars. My Dad told me when I got my first car, you need to learn to fix your own car, because you may not make enough money to take it to the garage to have a mechanic fix it for you. Well, on new cars that's much harder. But that logic fit almost everything in your home and personal life.

Entitlement says we don't need to do this, that, or the other thing. Can't we just swipe our credit card and "FIX IT".

Same deal with pills and medicine. Don't they make a pill for everything now? Why not disfunctional marriages?

it's the work and effort no one wants to put in. It's the "it's not my job" mentality.

I think much of my own maritial problems are because of my wife's feeling of entitlement.

Look at the elected officials we have in power running the country, Congress and most state governments and you will see why the word ENTITLEMENT has become part of our National Anthem. The media feeds this frenzy. Thinking about the world we will leave our children depresses and horrifies me.

I totally agree with you on this. We can't even find somebody that hasn't cheated on their tax return!

I also think that kids have to learn to earn the things they want. This economy will hopefully make people start to think about their lifestyles.

I don't know if this fits in here, but I just recently read a book "Love as a Way of Life" by Gary Chapman. This book is helping me to save my marriage. In it, I read a story of a former addict. She realized after rehab how terrible she had been as a mother. The sad part was she had to go to the park to observe how "normal" families interact. This has inspired me to volunteer for a pregnancy crisis center. My theory is that so many people don't have a normal childhood and this perpetuates the problem of entitlement/welfare. There has to be a way to change this around.

I'm not claiming infidelity is unique to American culture. Just look at France - oh don't get me started. But America has become a nation of irresponsibility (i.e. lack of responsibility). Every bad thing that happens is always someone else's fault. I was raised to take reponsibility for my mistakes. If I burn myself with hot coffee pulling out of a drive-thru, I would never think to sue the restaurant. If I'm overweight, I don't blame the guy who made the hamburger. If I get into debt, I don't blame the bank because they loaned me too much money. The list is endless. I think it started with "the Devil made me do it". In America, alcoholism is a disease. Can't be helped because it is a disease oh - and insurance will cover it. In other countries it's just a personal choice. I buy a house in a flood plain because it's cheap and, oddly enough, it floods - why didn't the govt protect me?

One thing about living overseas for so many years is that the changes in America are so clearly obvious. I relate it exactly to the thing about a frog in hot water. Put the frog in cold water on the stove and heat it up and you kill the frog. Throw the frog in boiling water and he jumps out. Americans just don't notice that the water is getting hotter because the change is too gradual. I'm not trying to criticize Americans here because, after all, I am one. But it makes me quite angry what has been happening and continues still to happen to my country.

Don't tell the affairee that they are sinning because we can't discuss religion. America goes so far in protecting peoples' freedom that we even protect the wrong freedoms. Sorry to say it but America is clearly on the cutting edge of personal entitlement.

I was too and am raising my kids that way as well, I am an American.

I'm raising my kids that way too because I believe those are good values.

Unfortunately I have learned the meaning of the word disenfranchisement.

And that makes me sad.