On this we definitely agree. I do hope that when she is in a better place mentally/emotionally/spiritually that she can come back here and get help from those who know what they are talking about without there being any personal attacks. Until then, I hope that ZW receives all the help that he needs here.

I'm not angry that the thread was shut off, but I think the point of this forum is to restore marriages and there were two people on here expressing a will to do it. If you reached the end of your rope with her or me, fine, I understand, but I don't think abusive language really helps. Even in my position, I have avoided abusive language when I have every right to use it.

As of Tuesday, she's doing quite a bit to do this right. She has agreed to everything I have asked for, and suggested much more. The willingness is there, the attitude is mostly there. It's just not going to happen overnight. This is ground zero all over again. The big questions? Why has she been unable to overcome her addiction at the cost of so much? Do I have to look forward to this happening again? Can I forgive her for this? Can she change?

She's talking about total transparency for life. Intertwining our lives so we're always accountable to each other. If I weren't so devastated, I'd say that it sounds wonderful. That's what we should have done all along.

I dunno, she's very broken down. I don't know how long it will last and if she'll come out effecting any real change. I'm starting to just feel like I'm repeating myself over and over in these FRs.

Let me put it this way again: I look at our history. Before we married and early in our relationship there were rough times and bad beginnings. I'd say after about 8 months up until 9 years later she has been a wonderful wife, friend and parent. Very selfless. Yes, she has a crap past, but during our relationship she did not display any of the deceitful crazy behavior she has displayed through this. She was always a modest drinker. She was an extremely giving and dedicated mom. She was very much in love with me.

This is what I look at, this is what makes me want to keep trying. Eventually it will become clear that I can either keep going or that I need to move on. This whole episode has been going on for less than 5 months. Does this mean it's apparent that my marriage is doomed? Many of you have reached that determination. Many of you think I'm simply a doormat, too afraid of losing her. I fear this at times too, and I think it has contributed to the continuation, but I also know that I am capable and deserving of much more than this, and would be OK moving forward. I know this. It's just not what I want right now. If I see hope in fixing the life I have, I'm not ready for a new one. So on I go.

Zen, I hope you are able to work this out so you and your kids are happy---whatever that works out to be.

Hopefully this will be a real recovery. You won't know until her ACTIONS give meaning to her words. You know her words have zero meaning right now based on her past actions, right? When her actions speak louder than her well put together words, you'll know you have a fighting chance.

But I still agree that getting your legal ducks in a row is a great strategy.

Yeah, I trust nothing. She acknowledges that. Actions have been pretty much there for the week, but this addiction is so strong I'm not getting my hopes up. We'll see. Thanks for hanging in there for me.

Zen,

I wrote earlier and suggested a divorce and keeping her as a common law wife.

I want to retract this suggestion based on my present reading.

In lieu of this, I would suggest tracking devices locked to her body. A buzz device that warns you of OM's arrival.

Improve your EP's.

Imagine, yeah it's strange, but after reevaluating our EPs, the previous plan was so full of holes, it should have been glaringly obvious to me that the likelihood of the affair continuing was good - especially given the FRs already. I also ignored a LOT of red flags. I won't anymore. Sad thing is, I think her remorse is genuine, she just can't seem to stop the addiction and it makes the guilt and self-esteem worse and worse. I hope this time is different.

Even with the current EPs in place, there are still some holes. I want to evaluate them with her and see if we can close them up. For instance: Work will always be a hole in the armor.

Zen,
Here are some ideas about work. You need to randomly show up with or without the kids regularly. Whenever my husband calls to say that he is working late, he invites me when he can. I am always welcome to just show up as well - and I do most of the time still. He has suggested this and expects it. I think that it makes it easier for him to stay on the straight and narrow. Her co-workers need to know you and like you. My husband even suggested that you can even offer a "reward" to a key co-worker that will call you ASAP if OM shows up. I would make sure that full exposure is done wherever she works. I really would consider moving also. What do the Harley's think about you staying in the same town?

Hi Zen, welcome back

Could you post the EP's for us to see?

Thanx

Yeah, I told her that I will be showing up to work every time she works. This is only one or two days a week. I'll load the kids up after naps in an hour or so and head over.

She will quit the job as soon as she gets another. It's still kind of a hole, so this one worries me. She is not taking her phone and will call from the work phone as she arrives and leaves. She has called several times already today.

Let me see if I can remember all the EPs:

I have her phone while at home. I have password to account. I have GPS tracker on her phone.

We have installed Spectorsoft on her computer (very thorough keylogger).

She will be on the phone with me all the way to and from work.

She doesn't go anywhere without me other than work. Period.

Discuss and remove all triggers for me and her.

I will ask her one mutual friend to NEVER discuss OM. They are not on good terms right now, so that's not tough in the near term.

No drinking.

Create and enforce legal protection for kids and me if contact is made.

I will have only key to mailbox.

I will drive her to job interviews.

She will give me all credit cards.

We will not drive near his house for any reason.

She will use her computer for job search only - verified by Spectorsoft.

She came up with most of these, but I don't remember all of them, and I don't have her notes handy. I'll share more later. We will continue to refine when we get ideas and think through the holes.

The holes right now are work and she can send emails from her phone and I don't think I can track them.

Please feel free to point out more?

Can you remove the email service from her phone or get her a phone that doesn't have email service?

Will a sim card reader work with her phone?

SS2, I'll check on both of those. Removing email would do the trick. I can track texts and phone calls via the account, although there is quite a time lag on it's update.

she just can't seem to stop the addiction

Has she defined was the addiction was for her? I don't mean generalities I mean what "Exactly" was it about the OM that made her risk her marriage/family time and time again. Was it the sex, love for OM etc. Until you can narrow that down and kill it this will resurface if not with this OM maybe another.

She has spoken of it a couple times. It's the falling in love part... the rush of feelings. The things that are different than raising two small kids and love from a tired husband with financial constraints and a dulling of the romantic love. The only thing that makes her feel good away from the guilt of the marriage. I think it's pretty typical affair stuff.

Oh and believe me, this is one of my many fears: She just isn't suited for a long term relationship with its ups and downs, its stagnant periods, it's boring periods. Or that she doesn't value all the deeper aspects of love and commitment. I truly worry that it is a lack of understanding of what marriage is. Now my hope is that it's just a matter of emotional needs being met and boundaries in place to keep her committed. I fear that it was a 'renter' mentality all along. I hope she becomes a buyer. I dunno, it's easy to go through this and attribute everything to some mental deficiency or lack of maturity or something. If the Harley's are right, it's more an issue of boundaries and ENs than anything. I hope she gains some real wisdom from this. She is saying that she has lost faith in herself and knows she needs to change. Blah, I just don't know. I'm tired of writing, "she says..." It's all so hollow right now. I'd rather just fast forward and say, "She done all these things which make her an amazing wife and a stronger person..."

I hope you get there. I'm rooting for your family.

The sim card reader reads deleted texts and everything else that is stored on the sim card on some -not all phones.

ZW,

I am going to shoot straight with you here, not that i haven't done so before.

Respect is a key element in any relationship. Between opposing nations to husbands and wives. Your wife's infidelity is an addiction that is destroyin her life as well as yours and your kids. Your wife is hooked on the thrill of sexual conquest and is intoxicated with her lust for pleasure.

You are still enabling her affair and behaviour by taking her backk everytime she strays.

If one of your kids came home at 4AM drunk at age 14, what would you do? Would you say, "this is an addiction and we need to understand that and work as hard as we can to sensibly try to work with it?"

You are BLAMING yourself for this whole situation, and in doing so you are possibly taking part in the destruction of Coho.

Coho right now, is a child, a toddler, waiting for someone to lay down bounndaries that cannot be crossed. Unfortunately, you have lay down boudaries numerous times; she has crossed them, and the only consequence has been you have taken her back, forgiven, and tried to take on the hard work of recovery.

Again and again.

ZW, it is time for a reckoning. Love has to be tough sometimes.

It is time to stop excusing her because, unfortunately, then you will become a party to her ultimate destruction.

You must tell her what is required; no other men period. If she ever breaks that, she is gone. And you must be serious this time! Stop it with the addiction stuff and the voice recorders and spyware stuff that you are telling her about in advance.

She needs to make a decision once and for all.

The mind (yours) cannot live with this much longer.

SWW, you are totally right, please don't stop shooting straight. I am choosing to follow Dr. Harley's advice, as well as my own inclination, as well as the advice I receive here. The EPs (spyware etc) were her idea, she initiated all of it. As far as the legal precautions, I wanted her to agree to them or would be filing for divorce, so I had to disclose my intentions.

I'm doing my best here. Frankly, I agree. I have allowed her to treat me this way by allowing her back each time. Like the 14 year old kids, do you just kick them out of the house eventually? I think you give them every chance you can until you've exhausted your ability.

She knows that this is it. I am prepared for her to fail, but I will be there for her if she succeeds. The effort is all her at this point. I'm just doing my best.

You are all over the place. You have no clarity whatsoever. None!

I have been where you are, perhaps worse as I struggled with the Biblical aspects as well.

No, She does not know, "this is it."

Do you kick a 14 year old out of the house? Of course not! They are your child, and 14!

This is a full grown adult! She pledged to be your wife and forsake others!

You are enabling her destruction by your apathy and fear.

You are also not helping your marriage prospects. ZW, she doesn't respect you. A woman needs to repect her husband. If you let her keep being a yo-yo and making excuses for her she will never respect you.