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Question: Do you think being selfish and weak is a character flaw?
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((((HUGS))))
For every dozen people who posted, there were dozens more saying prayers for you! You have no idea the impact your struggle is having on those who haven't yet the courage to do what you accomplished this week.
That short paragraph from your husband should confirm to you that you did the one thing that gives your marriage hope!
"selfish" and "weak" depending on the context could be considered character flaws. For example - your husband's character issues allowed him to be selfish and weak when it came to protecting your marriage and himself from this destruction. However, if you are feeling that "self-preservation" kind of "selfishness" and also feeling "weak" as in exhausted from the battle you have fought - no. They show strength of character!
So consider the context.
Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1 The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"? The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!" If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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I did come home last night feeling very dejected and I expressed my feelings at that time. But I went back and reread all your advice and I feel strong again!
You guys are great and I mean really GREAT! vst, you did great yesterday! This is very very tough business and it is no surprise that you are worn out after dealing with this for a year. Dr. Harley tells women to stay in Plan A no longer than 3-4 weeks. This is horrendous abuse that leads to nervous breakdowns, physical symptoms and years of post traumatic stress disorder. I am going to post some of his comments about Plan B but i want to tell you something about Plan B. Its main purpose is to remove you from his circle of abuse so you don't have a nervous breakdown or grow to hate him. Once that happens it is almost impossible to save the marriage. But there is another very important byproduct of Plan B and it is described in His Needs, Her Needs. Plan B is not to manipulate your spouse into anything, but it can often end the affair for good and push the WS off the fence. And here is why. The OW is meeting 1-2 top needs of your WS; you are meeting 3-4 minor needs. Right now he is in heaven getting his needs met in both places. However, if you are GONE, it will quickly become apparent to him that the OW can't possibly meet all his needs. And he will EXPECT her to because of all he has lost over her. This will cause conflict in the affair and can have the effect of yanking him off the fence IF YOU HAVE DONE A GOOD PLAN A AND REPRESENT A GOOD PLACE TO LAND. I would like you to start thinking about Plan B. You are wearing down fast and headed to a place where you will not be able to control your battered emotions with him. That will cause great harm to your chances of recovery. My suggestion would be to focus on doing the BEST PLAN A possible for about 3 more weeks and then going dark as night into a Plan B. I think that is what it will take to get him to end contact with the OW. It is your only hope I can see at this point. He MAY make plans to leave/transfer before then, but either way you will be prepared. I want you to read this. Dr. Harley on Plan B: When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly. That leaves two other choices which are both bad. T
he first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS. The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.
So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover. In your case, you've noticed that you have experienced a detached feeling about it all, even your husband's filing for divorce. That's the way it's supposed to turn out. You are far more attractive while in emotional control of yourself than you would ever be begging and pleading for his return. You tried that tactic already, and it hasn't worked. Plan B is not designed to send a message to your husband, or to let him think about how much he'll miss you after a divorce. It is designed to protect you from the emotional fallout of your husband's affair. It's a risky move, because it often leads to divorce. But the alternatives are even worse. If you don't go to plan B, when it's all over, you'd be an emotional basketcase.
You don't have to do a thing in Plan B. You certainly don't have to divorce your husband. But be sure to consult with a divorce attorney to understand your rights and risks. You should try to live your life as if your husband doesn't exist. MelodyLane:
The primary reason for abandoning plan A for plan B is protection. The stress experienced in plan A (trying to care for someone too long who is hurting you more deeply than you ever have, or ever will, experience) can leave you physically and emotionally damaged. So the question each person must ask themselves is, "how tough am I?"
My experience is that men are tougher mentally and physically than women. By that, I mean that women seem to start falling apart emotionally and physically after just a few months, or even a few weeks, of plan A. Men, on the other hand, seem to be able to keep it up for years before experiencing health problems.
If I don't know a person too well, I tend to lean to the safe side by recommending 3-4 weeks of plan A for women, and 6 months for men. But if a woman is no worse for wear after a few weeks, or a man is feeling okay after 6 months, there's no reason to end plan A at that point. As you can see, it's inexact, and depends on how the person is doing. A good support system (like the support people often receive on the Forum) can often keep a person in plan A much longer.
Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ok, so he just sent me this email:
"Yesterday was really nice... Was it miserable for you? I know it probably was, but it was nice and I'm glad the three of us went. I kept feeling the urge to grab your hand and stuff and laugh and be playful... I don't know... Just what's on my mind... I like days like yesterday when you make fun memories... I don't know how you could ever forgive me for going as far off the rails as I have. I don't know how it would ever be possible for you to really have a close loving relationship with me again after all the pain I have caused... Days like yesterday to me are a way to heal. Ok, I'm probly making no sense... Just know that I am getting past my anger for the call-around... And I am glad we spent time together yesterday and I hope you enjoyed it too, even if just a little bit."
I can't really see to type as my eyes are flooded.... ok, how are you going to respond to this wonderful email???? You are getting through to him, vst! Remember what MF said about the roller coaster? He will be up one day, and down the next. Please let us help you respond to this. He is reaching out to you, vst. He is looking for a safe place to land.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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off to church but will be back to read all of this. Thanks!
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It sounds to me like one of his top ENs is recreational activity. Start thinking of other fun things you can do, and invite him along. Don't be surprised if he says no. Invite him anyway, then tell him later what a great time you had (and email him a pic or two). Be upbeat and fun about it.
Don't listen to his spewage about "I'll give up my happiness for DD". You'll make yourself crazy. I mean, if you think about it, your exposure supposedly ruined what was left of their "friendship" where they "only talked." So what happiness is there for him to give up? You see? Trying to follow his logic will make you nuts.
Just focus on taking care of YOU - get sleep, eat, exercise - and your Plan A. What do you think his top ENs might be other than recreational activity?
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My response to his email was this: "It was actually nice to be around you yesterday. I just wish this stuff never happened and we could have been fun loving and playful. I would have liked that too. I had the urge to take your hand as well and hug you too." Good? I REALLY HELD BACK and was nice 
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It sounds to me like one of his top ENs is recreational activity.
What do you think his top ENs might be other than recreational activity? Yes RA is a top need as well as A, SF, PA & O&H. I findit hard to be affectionate at least physically. I really am not much into being touched by him right now. He doesn't try but he can probably tell I'm not looking for that.
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((((HUGS))))
For every dozen people who posted, there were dozens more saying prayers for you! You have no idea the impact your struggle is having on those who haven't yet the courage to do what you accomplished this week.
That short paragraph from your husband should confirm to you that you did the one thing that gives your marriage hope!
"selfish" and "weak" depending on the context could be considered character flaws. For example - your husband's character issues allowed him to be selfish and weak when it came to protecting your marriage and himself from this destruction. However, if you are feeling that "self-preservation" kind of "selfishness" and also feeling "weak" as in exhausted from the battle you have fought - no. They show strength of character!
So consider the context. Thanks for the input and the hug, KA!
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Mel, I guess our next plan of action is, while I'm doing plan A, how to get skank out of the office. I know I'm prejudice but my H has been there longer and has created quite a nice career there for himself. She is an EA and can get another job a lot easier.
I think a wonderful move would be if my WH were to ask the OWH to have her look for another job. Wouldn't that be a smack in the face?
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Yes RA is a top need as well as A, SF, PA & O&H. I findit hard to be affectionate at least physically. I really am not much into being touched by him right now. He doesn't try but he can probably tell I'm not looking for that. vst, if he does touch you, I would welcome that. That is a critical step in learning to meet each others needs. The goal of Plan A is to show a willingness to meet his needs. Would he take the emotional needs questionaire if you asked him?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mel, I guess our next plan of action is, while I'm doing plan A, how to get skank out of the office. I know I'm prejudice but my H has been there longer and has created quite a nice career there for himself. She is an EA and can get another job a lot easier.
I think a wonderful move would be if my WH were to ask the OWH to have her look for another job. Wouldn't that be a smack in the face? Unfortunately it is a sexual harassment suit looking for a place to happen too. He is going to have to be the one to leave...lest she try and use that card. jmho committed
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Mel, I guess our next plan of action is, while I'm doing plan A, how to get skank out of the office. vst, it is up to your H to end contact. That is his job. You can't make her quit. Your H is a big boy and he has to make that happen. IF he doesn't make that happen, then Plan B is warranted.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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VST,
I am so hopeful for you now. Everything that H is saying right now is right out of the script that so many of us have lived through. My H wanted to stay friends with OW as well, did not want to give up his job etc. But since leaving, he does not miss his job, and he has since recognized the importance of NC. We are working very hard on our M and are both hopeful for a new and better M in the future.
Once again, the advice you are getting from Mel is right on target. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it really is the only way to end and A and begin recovery in the M.
Hugs on this day of all encompassing forgiveness. I am rooting for you and offer my prayers for your M.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Mel, I guess our next plan of action is, while I'm doing plan A, how to get skank out of the office. I know I'm prejudice but my H has been there longer and has created quite a nice career there for himself. She is an EA and can get another job a lot easier.
I think a wonderful move would be if my WH were to ask the OWH to have her look for another job. Wouldn't that be a smack in the face? Unfortunately it is a sexual harassment suit looking for a place to happen too. He is going to have to be the one to leave...lest she try and use that card. jmho committed wow, I don't think it would ever go there with her.....but I guess anything is possible.
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Well, don't mean to be negative right out of the shoot, but I don't see him willing to leave. I just don't. But if that is what I have to push for I will but will pray hard that she leaves first.
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Well, don't mean to be negative right out of the shoot, but I don't see him willing to leave. I just don't. But if that is what I have to push for I will but will pray hard that she leaves first. vst, he has to end all contact with the OW in order for your marriage to recover. If he is not willing to do that, then he is not willing to salvage your marriage. What do your mother and father think about the affair? Have they spoken to your H or the OW? If I were your mother, I would call them both.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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OK VST.. I'm sorry I misunderstood... I'm SURE you suggested MC and tried for a LONG while to fix your marriage WAY before this... God blessed women with a STRONG sense of what makes a good and strong Marriage... We men on the other had are absolute MORONS  when it comes to that.. until something pulls one of us into a nightmare like this... So you DO have a right to be frustrated and angry that now it's HIM that's not happy?? Now it's HIM that does this to me!! UNFAIR... True..but unfortunately it has to be you that's the lighthouse for this marriage...ONE MORE TIME... Because you may have righteous anger… and you might be right… but if you want to have a chance at a better marriage than you ever thought you could have… you have to let that anger go… Because he was blind... and now he's even BLINDER..but the difference is he's beginning to knows it... Now... HE will want to do whatever it takes to fix your marriage TOO... in time...in time... Days like yesterday to me are a way to heal. THIS IS GREAT PRAISE GOD!! He is actually TELLING you how (from his perspective..) how to fix this! Don't get mad... he's just a man...we are morons remember? But with Stillstanding2, Turtlehead, Mel, MF, Pepper, Not2Fun, tst, Lexxy, SMB, AM, lil and all the others that will pop in and out.. YOU CAN DO THIS…. Just try and tell us when you are venting… we all get sad and angry and all that… this IS the place to do that… (as I said before) but remember.. we are going to keep a good eye on your emotional health… and we will get you into a Plan “B” before you break.. we won’t let that happen so don’t worry…. But you have to understand.. you do need a good Plan “A” first to have hope of recovering your marriage….take it ONE DAY AT A TIME.. and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE… try not to react to ANYTHING he says right now… It’s tug of war on a rollercoaster . He will make your heart SOAR one minute and he’s gonna rip it out of your chest and do the hot tamale dance  on it the next… it’s ALL right… it’s part of this…just don’t let it effect you. LET US tell you what was good and what didn’t look so good… and then we can formulate a plan to help you through it… OK this is getting to long… sorry… there’s sooo much…. Plan “A” is this… if you feel like holding his hand… go for it… Trust your instincts… (not your heart) and DON’T REACT either way… if he takes it… SO WHAT…. If he doesn’t SO WHAT….. you’re just planting seeds here… They (as you saw yesterday) are powerful and they WILL grow… you just might not always get the “instant” feedback all the time… patience... Good Luck and Prayers… Frank
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[quote=verysadtime]
Would he take the emotional needs questionaire if you asked him? He did a little while back and those are his: affection, sexual fulfillment, physical attractiveness, open & honesty (this one cracks me up...) He probably shared this with her too.....:(
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