My paretns know but have not contacted my WH. Mom call the OW?? Wow, I don't know if she could do it. Maybe I'll ask but that is waaayy outside her comfort zone. My MIL is maybe a different story. She despises her and has never met her. Maybe I'll ask her but my WH would be livid....

VST, you are lonely and miserable because you picked a bad man to be married to. Your choice of men had consequences and you are feeling them now. Can you get out of the marriage? Your life is precious and too important to be damaged by a man like that.

Thanks so much Frank, I appreciate your advice from a Christian perspective as well. I'm a Christian but my WH is not. I'm feeling very convicted today as I didn't ask him to come to church with us this a.m. It was a powerful gospel message and hundreds went forward to accept Christ. I was standing there just imagining my WH doing the same some day......

BTW, what is your story?

\

It would help if your MIL would call her up and ask her to leave her son alone. She could tell her that there is no future for her because she would never be allowed to darken her doorstep. The OW would never be welcomed into this family so she might as well give up.

I would do this for my DIL. In fact, I would even drive to the OW's house and call up her parents, but I am a TEXAN.

I'll have to give that some thought. My WH is pretty pissed that I involved his "sick old mother..." (not). She is a YANKEE so I bet she could mess up that people pleasing skanky smile in your face/scre# your husband wimp.

If A's fizzle out on their own, is NC still required?? Just grasping at straws here.....

vst, what does your husbands ANGER have to do with this? Who is in charge of the plan here? YOU or a falling down drunk?

Also, how would he know?

The affair won't "fizzle out" if there is still contact. That is the problem. It is not a "REQUIREMENT;" it is just what it will take to end the affair. If contact doesn't end, you are looking at a 5,10, 20 year on again, off again affair because they will be perpetually triggered every time they see each other.

That is like asking if complete abstinence is really required if the alcoholism fizzles out. The alcoholism will not be arrested UNTIL abstinence ensues. Just as an alcoholic can't change into a social drinker, an affair partner can't turn back into a coworker.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

This was written by a FWW, lifechoice, who worked with her OM after the affair ended:

No contact, lifechoice here

Every time I read where a WS is still working with the AP I cringe because I know exactly where things are headed. I know I said this before, but I only worked 6 days a month and after I ended the A, of the 6, we maybe worked together 1 or 2. When I ended the A it brought relief and neither FOM nor I wanted the A any longer, but regardless I was hooked. Just seeing his car in the parking lot, his name on an work email, or anything related to him kept me hooked.

I never knew ahead of time if I was going to be working with him. If I pulled into the parking lot and saw his car I would feel happy and sad at the same time and if his car was not there I would feel relief and sad at the same time.

My therapist told me to journal and after I confessed the stuff in there just makes me shake my head. Now when I read the stuff I did, said, etc it makes me sick to my stomach. I honestly believed I was on my best behavior because we were not crossing any inappropriate lines or so we thought. Now I can "see" exactly what happened and how it fed my addiction to the A. All those "professional" conversations that had bits and pieces of non-professional idle chit chat, facial expressions, body language, the unnecessary walk-by's, the acknowleging everyone but him days, etc where so harmful. And then my poor H would get to hear all about it because I was being open and honest. I have no idea why he didn't leave me because of what I put him through.

In a sec I will add a snippet from my journal and a prime example of why FAP's cannot stay working together. I hadn't seen my FOM in who knows how long. Docp had recently asked for all the details of the A and I was a complete nervous wreck. When I got to work, FOM was there, I was having a really bad day and to top it off was exposed to TB by a patient. The TB deal was the straw that broke the camels back. I had a meltdown in my FOM's office and almost passed out. I asked him if I could sit for a second and that second of sitting lead to a conversation we never should have had.

We talked about Docp's and his W's reaction, how we all were coping, how stupid and weak we were etc, etc. Even sitting here now I remember the feeling I had and KNEW we should not have been having that conversation, but it was making me feel better when I felt like crap. What I didn't realize was I had just had a big dose fed to my addiction and the whole cycle started again.

Here is the snippet from my journal: (I changed names of course)

"It felt good to talk to him and clear a lot of this up. He even mentioned it was nice that we were able to talk and I feel like he meant it, not in an appropriate way, just a friendly way. (Ah, this from the person who has been avoiding talking to me forever) I felt like I was talking to my 'old friend" the way it was for years before we messed everything up. I told Docp about the whole conversation. He was ok with this conversation, but said he wouldn't be really happy if we started talking all the time. duh!!!!!! I just said I understand and didn't plan on talking to him about anything that wasn't work related."

OK, in all reality Docp was NOT OK with the conversation and told me he didn't care if I was going to faint or not I needed to crawl out of his office, not sit and chat with him. But in my happy place I honestly believed because I told Docp about the conversation it really was OK. I was completely delusional and thought because it made me feel so good, it HAD to be OK.

I had all this going on and I rarely saw my FOM, can you just imagine what is going on when people are seeing each other every day?

Anyway back to NC, I'm not sure if I simply missed it before, but it seems lately we have more who are willing to allow the WS to continue working with the AP and have a zillion and one excuses on why it's OK. I'm never surprised when they find out the A is still ongoing though because I could tell them the details of what is going on during the work day when the WS honestly feels they are on their best behavior.

The skank would let him know quick at a whip I'm sure!! And I know, I do worry too much about what he thinks....

Thanks Mel, you're going to keep me on the straight and narrow aren't you?

Here's the thing though, I think the #1 reason he doesn't want to leave his job is because of how hard he's worked, etc. to get where he is. She may be a small part of it in his head but I think that is the biggest problem.

He said he didn't care if she left....I know, wayward babble..:)

I am not understanding what the problem is, though. And if he did find out wouldn't that be an admission they were still in contact?

vst, his anger is not a bad thing if it is for the right reason. Remember, the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid his anger at all costs. Your MIL could have a major impact on the OW in her pursuit of your H. If she knows there is no future, she might back off.

His response to my email this a.m. about being together yesterday: "I wish it never happened too... There is one good thing about me that I know for sure... I am aware of my faults... I am selfish and weak... (And impatient, but that is irrelevant). I really am sorry that I neglected you for so long... "

It doesn't matter what his reasons are, though. Who cares? What matters is that it will be impossible to save your marriage if they work together.

Sorry that he stupidly commmitted the #1 NONO in business: "never get your honey in the same place you get your money" because he is now faced with a difficult choice. He can't have his marriage and the job as long as the OW is there.

[quote=MelodyLane
I am not understanding what the problem is, though. And if he did find out wouldn't that be an admission they were still in contact?

[/quote]

Oh yeah good point!

How in contact should I stay with the OWH? I wondering if he will contact me again tomorrow after the events of last week and the conversations we had.

He wanted to believe they just talked that day! He said "we stayed up until 3 a.m. talking about it..." so sad. I told him he couldn't believe anything she says. He said he really didn't believe her.....I may have to pump him up to fight for his M!!

Dear Joe, and I am sorry I made life so hard for you. I love you so much and want to spend my time making that up to you. From what I have read, it is clear to me that all contact with Slankyhola has to end or our marriage can never recover. I want our marriage to recover more than anything. I know the only way I can ever live in any peace with any hope of rebuilding trust is if one of you leave that company.

What can you do about that?

I read this article by Dr. Harley on Marriage Builders, who has saved thousands of marriages after affairs:

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

I would keep him close at hand until this affair has really ended. And you can consider the affair ongoing as long as they see each other every day at work. They have opportunities ALL DAY LONG to get it on.

We have had affairees who met down in the parking garage and had sex in their car. So as long as they work together, the opportunity is there EVERY DAY.