Hi everyone! I lurk here frequently, but don't post much. Here's the link to my long, sordid story:

My Sordid Story

Here's my question, is it fair for me to be angry with H's friend and not want to have him come visit?

In Jan. 2008 H was in the middle of a profound mid-life crisis. Everyone who knew him well could tell something was seriously off with him. Some thought he was on drugs, others thought he was wildly bi-polar.

H flew to visit a friend so they could go to a concert. H and the friend have been close since high school. I've known the friend for the last 10 years or so. We've always been friendly and he's visited here a number of times. H and I even agreed to raise the friend's kids if the friend and his ex-wife died.

After the concert H's friend took him to a bar. H got drunk and began hitting on some woman there. (Prior to H's MLC, this would have been completely out of character for him. He didn't do this even when he was single.) H's friend left H at the bar so H could continue with this woman. The friend went home. H and the woman made out in the car and then went to the friend's house to consummate the one night stand. Before that could happen, the friend hit on the woman, she freaked out and left.

If this wasn't H's first instance of infidelity, any prior instances would have occurred two weeks earlier when H and the friend were on vacation in their hometown. H insists this was the first time, but as you can read in my thread, I have doubts.

After this incident in the bar, H went on to pursue a number of women. One eventually took the bait and he had a six-month long distance EA which turned into a PA at their high school reunion. In the seven + months since D-day, H and I have made tremendous progress in our recovery. Our marriage is stronger than ever. If it weren't for my doubts about whether I know everything about H's infidelities, things would be great.

My problem with the friend is this. I cannot get over the fact that the friend just left his troubled, drunk, married friend at a bar with a strange woman in a strange town. It was obvious to the friend what my H had in mind, yet the friend didn't even attempt to ask H whether he knew what he was doing or to talk H out of it. I take the friend's callous behavior as an affront to both me and my marriage. Is that an unreasonable reaction?

The friend has been divorced for many years. He's a charmer and a notorious womanizer. I suspect that hanging around with this friend was the worst thing H could have done in his vulnerable state.

The friend now wants to come here for a boys weekend so they can go to a concert. H's brother and best friend would be with the two of them. The brother and H's bff were the ones who exposed H's infidelities to me, and they care about both of us deeply. They would watch H while the friend was in town.

The friend would stay at our house and we would even pay for his plane ticket. (Back in Jan. 2008 I strongly objected to H going to see his friend. One way to overcome my objections was for the friend to use his miles to get H's plane ticket. He now expects H to return the favor for this trip.)

What do I do?

I would not tolerate any toxic friends period.

It would piss me off to no end. This "friend" is not a friend.

Good to hear it's not just me. This friendship is so important to H, that I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I just got off the phone with my sister-in-law who informed me that a year ago when the "friend" was visiting (while I was off visiting my parents) he complained about me always wanting to know what my H was doing. What a jerk!

A person that enables a Wayward IS NOT A FRIEND

A friend DOES NOT help you destroy your marriage...

PERIOD

Toxic "Friends" need to be kicked to the curb!!

It's really very simple.

FWH had an affair. His previous lifestyle that allowed him to be alone with "The Boys" enabled situations to occure that are NOT acceptable. FWH no longer does "The Boys" time. His marriage matters more to him than the time away.

Dr. Harley recommends that couples do NOT spend time apart. Especially time like this!

Boy's out without their wives is dangerous and wreckless to the marriage.

Why would you ever agree to let these types of circumstances occur in your marriage again? That's insane!
I'm not trying to be mean....but, are you really this naive?

Why would your husband be so selfish and cruel to even suggest you allow him to entertain time away from you to act like he's single. I mean, goodness, his track record sucks.

I would also bar his friend from your lives! He is not a friend to your marriage and obviously doesn't give two hoots about you.

Does he plan to go back for his next high school reunion too? Geeesshh!

tst,

I'm trying to find the balance between protecting the marriage and allowing H to return to his pre-MLC normal life. As I said in my post, before the MLC, H would never have been interested in going to bars with the friend, much less in hitting on women while he was there. It's just not him.

H insists that the friend had nothing to do with his infidelities, but here it is H being naive. Personally, I think that the friend was cheering H on, but I don't know for sure. To his credit, H blames no one but himself for his behavior.

H is now a better version of his pre-MLC normal self. If I were to agree to the visit, it would only happen if H and the friend were supervised by H's brother and H's bff at all times. They were instrumental in exposing H's infidelities and in protecting my marriage.

Prior to the MLC, when the "boys" got together, the only time they spent apart from me was when they went off to see a movie. Otherwise, we'd all hang out together. Now, I think I'd vomit at the sight of this friend. My sister-in-law has volunteered to house the friend so I don't need to see him.

Even with these protections in place, I take it you and the other posters think I'm still playing with fire?

I'd be concerned why WH even entertains such ideas. Continuing to interact with toxic a friend and expecting him to stay in your home while he bad mouths you behind your back and turns a blind eye to (or joins in on) disgusting behvior...WTH? Your H sees nothing wrong with this picture? That's scary.

ETA: Why are you trying to find balance with that?

Neither you nor your husband need friends in your life that are not friends of your marriage. The book Lovebusters goes over the whys for this.

YES!


I also think it's cruel for H to want to entertain this man for any reason. That Pre-MLC life(as you put it) should never exist again. If H were truly repentant, he would never question your desire to see that old-glory-day friend removed from your lives. He would respect this boundary.

This is NOT a Selfish-Demand, it's a natural, healthy boundary.

I agree with this 1000%.

bea16 question for you: Would your WH tolerate you having a "friend" like this? One that would enable you to forsake your marriage, stand by while you commit adultery and also talk bad about him to you behind his back????

I personally don't think so.....

He changed when he had the affair. Now you know that given the wrong situation, he would do "that".

If you can't stand any of his friends for any reason, it is a lovebuster for him to keep them in his life. This friend needs to go.

My H and I were in recovery and doing well...one of my conditions was he stay away from his "friends" that contributed to his A...when he resumed contact with them is when everything spiraled downward, very quickly...we're now divorced.
If your H wants this M, he needs to drop the friend and put you first. Period. Anyone or anything that is not supportive of the M, is an enemy.

Bea,
Have you and your FWH sat down and try to come up with a solution together that you'll both be happy with?

GG

JoJo,

Good question. I've tried in the past to get H to see things from my perspective. He tries, but it's tough.

tst and Still Standing,

You have an interesting perspective about the H and change. One of the reasons I was so angry with this friend was because he was there (and allowed) when H crossed over that threshhold from faithful to unfaithful. It's a stain that never goes away.

My struggle is with cutting him off from a close friend of more than 30 years. It's even harder when they're part of a group of 4 that's as close or closer than any brothers.

Vows,

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear that. I really appreciate you sharing that with me.

GG,

H and I have been waiting to have this conversation until after tax season ended. We had a lovely dinner last night and he's off work until Monday. We'll do it in the next day or two while the kids are at school. It needs to be part of a larger conversation about whether he's disclosed everything or not. A polygraph may follow.

Thanks everyone for your advice and support! I was feeling as though I were being unreasonable. Glad to hear I'm not.

One last tidbit I forgot to include, the "friend's" visit would come right at the one year anniversary of the reunion and PA. Living through the anniversary of the EA has been bad enough. I can't imagine what that will be like.

Bea,

I too "tried to find the balance" for my STBXH because I too felt guilty "keeping him from his friends" so I too, in turn, was MISERABLE because STBXH & his "friends" got to go out doing who-knows-what while I sat home, miserable, snapping at my kids, and generally a very unhappy & unpleasant person. Then we could fight the next day about how irrational I'm being. And my kids could remain scared dad was going to leave cuz mom was going to put him out...again.

We are getting divorced. I've never felt more liberated. My heart breaks for my kids, of course, but I was fighting a losing battle. Now I look forward to a life with sane, sound, healthy people who GET IT.

Look: you need to come first! Does your H come first for you? Do you deserve to have the same status w/him? You & I both know these people are not friends & they haven't been...for 30 years! If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And while it's great the other 2 are/were part of the solution, is it really fair to them (or mature, or reasonable) to have them "watch" your H? No. It's also not fair your H is putting you in this position. And you're not being fair to yourself by questioning your stand (although I completely understand it). Stand up for yourself & your marriage. Plan a weekend for yourself & your H. Maybe even the other 2 GOOD guys. But no poison-"friend".

I would bet that the two decent friends would understand and agree if it was explained to them.

Life is too short to be miserable. Your husband shouldn't want you to put up with anything that would hurt you anymore than his actions already have. Keeping this toxic person around is abusive given your reaction to him. This is a consequence of your husband's actions. It was not the friends fault that your husband cheated. It was not his job to keep your husband straight. It is your husband's responsibility. It is also his responsibility to protect you and give you extraordinary care.

UPDATE:

Now that tax season is over, I finally had the chance to have a long talk with H. Before we could resolve the issue of his friend visiting, I needed to explain to him why I still felt as though he hadn't told me everything about his MLC year and his various attempted infidelities. While he was reluctant to talk at first, he eventually opened up and we had a good talk.

The next night H brought up the affair and its fallout himself. That's huge! He almost never brings it up except to apologize for the zillionth time. We had another in-depth talk and I finally learned some new details.

Those details included two new incidences of him kissing other women. One of them was two weeks before the incident where the friend left him at the bar. While the friend was at the bar at the same time, he wasn't aware of what H was doing. H told the friend a day or two later.

I also learned that H had tried to have dinner with a classmate in Jan. of 08. This woman is the prom queen type. Beautiful and every guy wanted to date her. It turns out that H didn't go through with the dinner plans because his friends talked him out of it. To them, in their warped minds, chasing after this ideal woman was bad, but kissing skanks in bars is OK.

Anyway, after we talked, H told me that the visit is off the table. He understood my feelings and doesn't want to put me in a situation where I'm that uncomfortable.

I should also say that we are doing as well in recovery as I could ever imagine. We spend all our free time together and all the things about our marriage that needed work (before the MLC year when all heck broke loose) have been addressed and have improved immeasurably.

Good job! Keep being honest about what makes you happy as well as unhappy.