Where have you been? Just wanted to see how things are going for you lately?

Ditto that!<P>I have been keeping tabs on you two cauz our stories are so much alike!<P>Hope all is going okay. I'm here if you need to talk ... I'm not always in the best frame of mind .... just another consequence of the sin.<P>

Maya or anyone--<P>Thought I'd post to you on this thread for fear of getting attacked...just need to sort out my feelings.<P>Lately I've been feeling alot better...the withdrawal is subsiding and things are getting back to normal.<P>However, I feel that I've been thinking too much lately and that always gets me in trouble.<P>Sometimes I think that things actually aren't better, it's just that I'm getting used to it.<P>I've started appreciating my husband more these days...but, the "love feelings" still aren't there. It's been almost two weeks since we were last intimate and I really have no desire to be intimate with him. We still fight and love-bust all the time...it's a daily thing and most days I end up very frustrated with him. When I tell him how I feel about things he usually tells me I'm overacting and that I'm too self-centered. It's very difficult to get the "love feelings" back when you feel your spouse doesn't care.<P>Although I'm getting over the OM, I still feel like it's such a shame that it had to end. Yeah, I was probably in fantasy land when I was with the OM, but I can't help but think that we were so compatible. Whenever my husband ignores me or spends time with his activities and not me, I think that the OM would never had ignored me this way...that he would have loved to spend time with me.<P>So, basically I'm feeling better, but things really aren't any better at all...I've just learned to accept it. Who knows, maybe I am thinking too much.<P>Sorry, I just needed to vent...it always helps to post my feelings on this board. I hope that by posting my feelings that they will go away or someone will help me see the light.<P>Pam

Hey Pam,<P>Hope it's okay to jump on in!!<P>I feel like you do, and what's really sad is that I thought I was totally over the withdrawls. I'm sure you and me and whoever will get blown outta the water for this, but I also miss that blasted "feeling" with the OM. That feeling that I was important enough for... whatever it was. Important enough to listen to, to really HEAR, more than anything else.<P>I can't seem to get the old feeling back with my H, although for a very short time they were creeping back and it FELT SO GOOD. Then the LB'ing started and pushed us back, back, back. My H says it's ten steps or so. I've spent more time crying in the last two weeks than I did for the six weeks before it combined. I begin to wonder when the pain EVER ends.<P>I want to feel BIG LOVE FOR MY H... he wants the same for me. Neither of us has it. Now THAT'S a shame...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 20, 1999).]

Yeah, I have alot of those feelings too. Feel like I'm just "accepting" the marriage, feeling like this is where I'm suppose to be and therefore I need to "deal with it".<P>And yes, there are times I feel like I missed something "wonderful" in the loss of the relationship with OM. It DID seem special, one of a kind, etc. etc. But you're right, it was a fantasy. I look back and think, "Gee it was fun to look forward to an e-mail from him everytime I came into work." Stuff like that.<P>But I also realize that he lied to me about so so many things. He played me for a fool. He knew all the right things to say when I was so vulnerable. I played right into his hands, and he got what he wanted. I firmly believe that if we had gotten together that in a few years he would have been cheating on me. Sobering thought.<P>But it's because of HIM that I cannot trust anyone now. If something were ever to happen to my H, I know I would not look for male companionship. I would never be able to trust a word they say, right down to the line "You are so pretty." (which I am, thank you very much -- but I don't need a man telling me that)<P>I've learned alot about myself over these past few months. I've grown up alot ... I realize that life isn't the pretty little package they portray on the movies, and marriage isn't the beautiful soft picture they paint it out to be.<P>Yes, I'm pretty cynical now. My H has been wonderful, but there's no "I can't live without him" feelings associated with him. I care very much, and I feel bad that I've hurt him so much .... but I don't feel close to him and don't have much desire to feel close to him.<P>Sheesh. Sorry if I'm bringing you down, Pam. I just want you to know I'm there with you and I understand your feelings, but don't have a single answer.

Pam,<P>I'm right there with ya. Things are better at home, and I'm not depressed like I used to be, but I have no loving feelings. The "intimate" thing is an issue with us as well. My wife even mentioned the other day that it seemed like I never initiate sex, which is sorta true. I just don't really feel like it. I have no desire.<P>We get along pretty good. There are the occasional flare ups -- like on Monday she got mad at me when she perceived that I was being insenstive (her perception, cuz I was trying to be understanding). But nothing really major. Mostly, we get along and it's nice. But I keep thinking, if this is all there is, then I'm not sure it's gonna be enough. It's freakin' scary, let me tell you.<P>well anyway, take care,<BR>--andy<P>PS - I hope Hum is doing well too! How are you Hum?

Ladies and Airheart,<P>I just have to jump in here. It seems to me that you expect too much from yourselves. First, consider the "loving feelings". I don't want to be a downer here but you removed those from your mind when involved with the OP. You feel that they should just snap back, but you will have to develop them. How long did you date your spouse before you had them? For many people the courtship takes year-years. You are all older and wiser, it may take awhile before "youthful feelings" of love fully return. <P>Consider this. When you were young or for that matter starting dating, whether you admit it or not you were dependent on that person to meet your emotional needs. The same with H/W and OP. Now you are out of withdrawl but are you ready to be dependent on H/W? When you are I suspect the feeling will come back. If you become friends, give to your friend, and can in turn receive from your friend, you will very soon become lovers. This is how marriage came about and this is how your affairs came about. <P>I know New_B has expressed this and so has Maya. When things get rough you think of OM/OW. Of course you do, just as many people remember high school as a great time. Does that mean you are going back no. Just because you think of good times (real or fantasy) when under stress does not mean you are having a relapse with regard to the OP. You are normal. People think of old Boy/Girl friends, fantasize about what would have been , and so forth. However, that does not mean you are ditching the current situation.<P>So summarize, cut yourselves some slack. You will think of the "good times" when times are bad. That is not cheating on spouse, it is not a relapse of the affair, and it does not mean that your spouse cannot become the object of your affection. Finally, you wiped the love of your spouse out of your conscience mind during your affair (could not justify it otherwise), it will take time for it to come back. Have patience!!!!!<P>God Bless All of You

I agree with many things Just Learning said, but I'd like to add this little pep talk.<P>You feel what you feel. However, if you are working toward recovery, you need to remember you are committed to working toward the feelings you want to have.<P>I have a great deal of respect for all of you. Choosing your marriage takes courage for you and for your spouse. <P>You may have had problems in your relationship before the infidelity, so the infidelity itself is not your only problem. It is, however a huge barrier to intimacy to both you and your spouse. <P>When your spouse decides to stay in the marriage, I believe they need to also commit to moving toward a forgiving spirit and moving toward actual rebuilding and recovery. That doesn't mean they instantly feel forgiving, or have the answers for recovery, it means they need to be willing to move toward that and conversely to move away from anything (bitterness, disrespect, lovebusting) that would impede recovery. Of course mistakes and a bit of back sliding on this roller coaster is to be expected, but in general your spouse needs to want to move forward (even at a snails pace) and needs to do the work necessary to actually move forward.<P>When you, the betrayer, chooses to stay in the marriage, I believe you need to commit to a spirit of reconcilliation and coversely move away from anything that inhibits it. You also feel what you feel, but you need to want to feel differently and do the hard work that will move you toward feeling differently.<P>Those feelings you want are not just some elusive bubble that will just drift your way and pop on you. Those feelings are something you need to create...not overnight, but you need to keep wanting and keep working toward your goal. <P>It's OK to feel discouraged, boy don't we all some days.<P>But think about what you can think and what you can do that will help and eliminate the things you think or do that can hurt.<P>Keep reading or listening, if that's your style, to books on relationships. Don't wait until you feel like initiating sex, try initiating it anyway, or at least something intimate and see if each time gets easier or more meaningful. Think of some selfless kind gesture you can do for your spouse and when you get a warm response, note if that makes you feel warm in return. If you are thinking about OW/OM think of those thoughts as a cassette and push the stop button. Say stop out loud if it helps. Then put a different tape on, one that will build your marriage. Think one kind thought about your spouse, or perhaps a happy memory. Be open and honest, but refuse to let things esculate into a lovebusting episode. If your spouse is venting, don't be defensive, just let him/her feel. Be kind and patient, bearing with one another in love.<P>It's OK to stumble, and sometimes we fall, it is just not OK to lay there too long. Accept where you are, but don't accept the idea that it is OK to stay there.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi guys,<P>Thanks for thinking of me. I guess I feel like a burden, I was posting so much and I've been trying to give back to people but I feel I'm the greatest in the advice area right now.<P>My computer at home is still out for repair (been a week now!) and it's killing me. I can only check in at work and work has also been very busy (I know everyone is busy). Between my mind and emotions being all screwed up, my work is starting to suffer. I wish I could just not think about it at work but the OM is here!<P>I felt yesterday and I posted to FHL thread on bitterness, so angry at the OM and very bitter at everything that has happened to me. I see him at work and I want to scratch his eyes out and I do feel at times very revengeful towards him. It's almost like I blame him for everything, he's made my life so miserable and I know that's not true. I'm the only one to blame. I have not acknowledged him (I went back to no goodmornings or goodnights) since October 4th. I just can't handle it. He did send me a email b-day card on Friday, and I didn't acknowledge it. Monday he sent me another email asking if I received it and explaining how he was sorry it was unfeeling but he didn't want to get blasted with a email hate letter from me for sending one with his true feelings which he wish he could of sent. He said he just wanted me to know he was thinking of me, not just on my b-day but always, he then took the opportunity to tell me that he had to delete the last of my voicemails (get saved for 30 days) over the weekend (which means he was checking his voicemail) and he cried and that things are far from better at home and that he stills looks at me all the time but I don't see him.<P>I just responded that yes, I did get the card, thanks for thinking of me, and I was sorry for his pain, I shouldn't of sent those voicemails back then and to try and find peace in knowing he won't get any further from me in the future and I truly wish him happiness in his marriage and always.<P>It was very hard to not write more but I was OK. I don't (at this time) feel that "need" to communicate with him. I do still feel sad and miss our friendship very badly. And of course, the dreams are still there, although not as frequent. <P>Holly, I am starting to feel as though the "withdrawal" symptoms are better. I was so worried about Sunday, the 17th, thinking of him and it wasn't that bad. I kept myself very busy and I actually didn't think of him that much! I know about the "in-love feelings", I was talking to my counselor about it last night. I do, though, feel that love from my husband. I do feel that he cares about me, loves me and is trying lately, which is helping. The counselor told me that I'm not over the OM, so that's one of the reasons it's so hard to see things clearly right now. Even though the fog is lifting, it's still there and I know my judgement around my marriage is swayed by it.<P>Maya, God, I miss those emails from the OM, every morning he'd send me one, telling me how beautiful I looked, etc. I miss the attention he gave me. <P>I told the counselor last night, God, I feel like I don't know where to start at times to try and put all the pieces back together. I just want to give up. We have so many problems and struggle so much, and I think the OM would of been such a perfect for match for me. She said "that's the fantansy talking, yes, maybe the first 2 years would of great, but you would of have issues with him too, maybe not as many (which was not good to hear) but he's definitely not Mr. Perfect". She kept telling how I really didn't know this OM, never spent even a weekend with him and I might of come to a real awakening if I would of been. <P>I said to her "I think at times, when did things start to go really wrong, how did that door get opened to the OM", and I realized with her that it was a gradual process with all the lovebusting over years chipping away at my love for him. She confirmed all my problems are common ones and ones that if aren't worked on will kill a relationship. <P>His recreational activity, plus we have no activities together, I feel we have nothing in common<BR>Disrepectful behavior<BR>Communication, we don't talk<BR>Family issues<BR>Whether to have children<BR>Money disagreements (because of hobby)<BR>Angry Outbursts<BR>Jealous, possessiveness<BR>I've felt he's taken me forgranted, I feel lonely, I feel like I come second to his hobby<P>This is how the door got open to the OM. He was so charming, romantic, gave me so much attention and I loved so much how he could tell me what he felt, he could talk to me was so gentle, loved children and told me his hobby would be "me". Of course that "closeness" I felt in the OM's arms was so wonderful. But I tell myself it was the "infatuation" phase.<P>When I first fell in love with my husband he was romantic (in his way) and I did feel like I was #1 to him and I did have those "in-love feelings" for him but it was so long ago and of course I keep comparing it to the OM.<P>The counselor wants to me talk to my husband again about his hobby, try to negotiate, he's been doing better on his temper and he's trying to give me more attention and reassure me that I am the most important thing in his life. I've asked to him to try and be alittle romantic and he is trying (calling me little nicknames when he sees me and telling me how pretty I look when I'm with him). She wants us to both think of something we can do together, an activity, because we really don't do anything together, only chores like: foodshopping, etc. She said we need to talk about our feelings and for two years since I've been with the OM, I've been very distant at home, critical of everything he did and I'm also guilty of being a conflict avoider because the OM was my escape from my problems. It's no wonder he's activity has worsened, I also wasn't making the atmosphere at home very loving. <P>I said to myself last night "you know I've been real ***** to him over the past 2 years too, and it's a wonder he just didn't leave, I really put him down too and acted disrespectful and he says he still loves me". I said to my husband last night,"Can you tell me what you feel that I give you that is so special, that you couldn't live without, that no other woman can give you?" He said "No other woman is you, I love you, the whole package, you know I'm not good with words, but that's the only way I describe it, it's just everything about you that is special to me".<P>I'm hoping with each baby step, the love for my husband will come back. But I know there's going to be arguments to send me back, but at this point I want to feel a glimpse of it again, that will give me strength. <P>Sometimes, I pray for a sign from God, anything to tell me I'm doing the right thing. <P>FHL: Everytime I get a "good" feeling about my husband, I'm trying to write it down, and whatever he did that made me feel that way. Also, I've been trying to be more intimate with him, even when I don't want to, to make him happy. Just late night, I was so tired from work and I came home late from counseling, we were in bed and we hadn't been together in over a week, he said to me "I guess we're just going to sleep right?" which I knew what he wanted and really didn't want to all but we did and it was really nice and he was so happy this morning, I felt good inside, even though I still don't feel that connection with him.<P>Sorry for this long message guys and thanks again for thinking of me .<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 20, 1999).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>No other woman is you, I love you, the<BR> whole package, you know I'm not good with words, but that's the only way I describe<BR> it, it's just everything about you that is special to me"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And this is Mr. Inarticulate, eh?<P>Hum, I'd KILL for my H to say something like that to me.<P>Think about it.

Yeah I'd kill, or at least seriously wound, to hear something like that, too.<P>Problem is I wouldn't remember it because of the head injury I would sustain from falling over if he did say it!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Maybe it's me, but I wanted to hear more detail, what is it about me exactly. It wasn't what I wanted to hear. <P>I even said to him, "you don't care if we don't have any activities together, you think our time together is boring", he said "no I don't care, I still think we have things in common, like desires, and I don't think the time with you is boring I just said that cause I was mad".<P>Is it me guys?<BR>

Hummingbird,<BR>Based on the choice you made for your H, your romantic expectations are probibly too high. Add the two years of emotionally abandoning your own marriage and the residual feelings you have for OM, I'm not sure there is anything your H could do that would be enought right now. I'm imagining him giving you the moon and you saying...but I wanted the stars, too.<P>Not that you should not have your needs met and your questions answered. I just don't think your perspective is 100% right now.<P>I've asked my H why he loves me he says.."Because you are nice." What do you mean by nice? "I mean you are nice to everyone all the time....and you are sweet."<BR>Is there anything else you like about me? "Well you are a wonderful mother and you are really good at doing the taxes."<P>How is that for romance?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

FHL, I feel like laughing and crying.<P>Your right, it's me. The OM could hand me a wilted flower and I'd find that so romantic at this point. A man that hurt me, lied to me, and broke every promise he ever made to.<P>What is wrong with me. <BR>

Nothing that can't be fixed.<P>Actually NOTHING is wrong with YOU. You made some bad choices, took some unfortunate actions and are dwelling on some inappropriate thoughts.<P>Work towards different thoughts and actions and you'll be at least on the right road.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I think my marriage was a mistake at times.

Hummingbird,<BR>Maybe it was not the best choice you could have made at that time.<P>However, that does not necessarily mean that your marriage now is a mistake.<P>Additionally you have no way of knowing about what would have happened if you made a different choice. <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hum,<P>Even some (dare I say many?) people who have not had affairs think that sometimes...<P>You are like me in one BIG way... we need to quit being so hard on ourselves, and quit thinking about this stuff so much...<P>Take care <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Hummingbird, <BR>Let me say this another way. You regret marrying your H, right?<P>Maybe you can reframe things. You realize that you married your H at the wrong time and possibly for the wrong reasons. Maybe you even married the wrong person.<P>That is seperate from your current situation. Marrying young, partially out of rebellion to a somewhat immature and angry man is something to grieve. Grieve you lost youth or maybe missed educational opportunities...whatever you think you missed. Grieve that in many ways your marriage did not meet your expectations. Then commit to letting that go. It is something you can not change.<P>Your decision to stay in the marriage should not be based on whether or not you should have origionally married. You did and you have a big chunck of life than is now entwined. I'm not trying to make your decision for you, but "holding it against" your H that you even married in the first place is unfair. It is a past event that can not be changed.<P>Evaluate your relationship for what it is and for what it could be given the energy it needs. Make allowance for your current feelings and then give H for staying the past two years when you were emotionally unavailable.<P>This may take some time to sort out.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

NB, I wish I had a shut-off switch. I drive myself crazy. I see so many people on this forum in so much pain, I really hurt for everyone. I read the posts here and think of my life as well and I just feel like running away. Some people here (especially the betrayed) I feel so sad for. I think to myself "God, I have no right being here", look at what their enduring, what if you were on their end". I think if my husband ever had an affair I would definitely be gone, there's no way I'd ever stay. I know, how dare I, right. I have alot of nerve thinking this way. <P>My OM was an escape from my problems and I think at times if he hadn't come into my life two years ago, I would of had to of faced these problems then and maybe I'd be single today.<P>I know I'm a dreamer and fantasyland with the OM was just that fantasy, but sometimes I feel/need to just have alittle of that again in my life. It felt so good to escape and I just don't want to deal with everything. <P>FHL, I have a big part of my life (hopefully) ahead of me too, and the counselor asked me "you have to decide if this relationship is something you want to work on, it's going to take alot of work, do you want to save it?" FHL: I don't know. Somedays yes, others no. How can I rebuild feeling this way? I have feelings of regret, their hard to let go. Even without the OM, I think of other men out there. I find myself looking at other men more as <BR>well. I would never have another affair. <P>I want to feel normal again. I'm so tired of feeling screwed up.<P>