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You need another example don't you. Not really. OK. When you are watching TV with your husband what are you thinking about? And what are you doing? I can tell you what men are thinking of......Nothing.
Women are up doing 10 different things at once. Unless your husband is different then any man I know (including myself). He will be more then happy to let you work during commercials while he sits. Does he jump up and help you until you stop working? I doubt it. When I'm sitting watching TV with my H, I'm enjoying the show and his company. If I get up during a commercial to do something, I don't expect him to get up just because I do. During commercials H might be reading work emails.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Esox, I agree with everything you posted. 
Last edited by black_raven; 04/22/09 10:26 AM. Reason: change word
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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It was ridiculous. It is ridiculous. Affirmative action always is. Nobody is fooled. Still, it spread like peanut butter on a hot day. For those women who didn't like men anyway, it was sweet revenge. Except -- it wasn't quite. The men knew, and the women knew they knew. On the other hand, the checks cashed.  Oh my God, I love the whole thing!! Someone else who didn't drink the feminazi KOOL-AID! I AM NOT ALONE IN THE WORLD! 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This is your interpretation of what ouch was trying to say. 100% correct ! I try to make certain my interpretation of what a poster is saying is accurate (by checking with him/her) before I argue with or against their point. Good job!
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This is your interpretation of what ouch was trying to say.
I do not believe that societies view of men is that they must understand women at all. I believe it is quite the opposite, that men are still the "better" gender in the world. SC, don't you think that some women believe that MEN are the "better gender" since they so bitterly compare and compete with men? I think that some women are crippled with envy of men because THEY believe they are inferior. I think this is behind much of the bitterness you see from these harpies in combat boots. They are emotional cripples without a cause. Healthy, well balanced women are happy with who they are, they do not solicit their WORTH via irrelevant comparisons to men.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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B/R: You wanted me to get back to you, but I'm on my way to play golf. But your post: All right. You want proof. Go and measure the indent in the cushions of the couch in front of the television and see who's a$$ fits it. Huh? I know my H's butt prints are indented in the couch more than mine but I don't think he's lazy. He works hard during the week and wants to relax in his free time. I want the same too.  I don't know how we ended up here.   That's my point. Go back and read Pep's original entire thread. And it didn't devolve into butt indentations, or voting rights, or whatever..... IT stayed on discussion point. FM and Bob even seemed to have had tremendous insight into thier own sitchs from that. More later. LG Read it and posted. I'll wait for more because I'm still not sure what I'm missing that you think I'm missing. 
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Esox,
Interesting article. It said many things I was going to say but better. I am enjoying Pep's and Ouch's conversation. I would guess this all comes down to the fact that society today wants to pretend that men and women are just the same and should act and react the same.
Bad idea as the article you posted says: Men make poor women and women make poor men.
Sadly, our schools (yes S_C most schools are like this) don't want boys to be boys.
I'll stop with a few comments. All of my children were active in sports. I was heavily involved in fund raising for the schools and for the sports programs. I cannot tell you how many Mother's chewed on the coaches because they did not treat little Johnny or Jane...FAIRLY. In fact, I actually had more than a few mothers come up to me and say "winning" is not important, and I would point to the score board and say apparently everyone seems to think it is.
My point, even in school sports (yes High School as well) you see women actively trying to "socialize" the sports so that it is "fair" to everyone. But, if you truly want to see the difference you all should coach a women's team and then a guy's team. It is truly amazing.
The biggest challenge in coaching the girls is to get them "socialized" so that they will in fact play with girls that are not their "friends" read not part of their group. Many girls would rather lose a game than pass the ball to a girl they don't like.
Boys on the other hand may hate each other, and happily beat each other up behind the gym, but when the whistle blows they will play to win.
It is truly remarkable to see the differences. But, what I have seen is that society and schools are trying to socialize men to be more "sensitive", less focused on winning, and less agressive in their outlook on life.
I don't like it one bit and I think the data shows boys are being harmed by it, which will naturally lead to big issues within marriage. The data is clear that by any measure boys are being left behind, both in schooling and in society. That does NOT bode well for women in the long wrong and it surely does not bode well for marriages.
Just thoughts.
JL
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But, if you truly want to see the difference you all should coach a women's team and then a guy's team. It is truly amazing. Interesting thoughts JL. I did just that thing the past 2-years at the high school level.
Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It aint just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
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But, if you truly want to see the difference you all should coach a women's team and then a guy's team. It is truly amazing. Interesting thoughts JL. I did just that thing the past 2-years at the high school level. All the team's I ever played on, the girls would rip their opponents head off to win. ETA: And wouldn't have a problem ripping the head off their teammate either.
Last edited by black_raven; 04/22/09 11:06 AM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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But, if you truly want to see the difference you all should coach a women's team and then a guy's team. It is truly amazing. Interesting thoughts JL. I did just that thing the past 2-years at the high school level. All the team's I ever played on, the girls would rip their opponents head off to win. Unfortunately, often their "opponent" is their own TEAMMATE.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Unfortunately, often their "opponent" is their own TEAMMATE. Very true.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Believe me we have a 2 family income for needs not for wants, we do without a lot just for needs. I am not being snarky here, but I am going to tell you some of the ways we are able to stay a one-income family in a "two-income world": ~I cook just about everything we eat from scratch. ~We RARELY do take-out or take the whole family out to dinner. ~I use coupons and have devised a list of our staple grocery items so that I know WHERE and WHEN I can get each item at it's absolute lowest price. I buy things even if I don't need it RIGHT NOW if it is at it's lowest documented price. This took months to do and is ever-changing, especially now that the economy is going down the tank. ~I shop garage sales for much of our children's clothes as well as many other items. ~I "stockpile" their clothes as well as food items so that I am never caught "off-guard" and HAVE TO go out and pay retail for an item. ~We ALL wear wear hand-me-downs, garage sale items, or clothes from discount-type stores and the best part is that NO ONE EVER KNOWS because you CANNOT TELL!!! I am very picky about the garage sale clothes we wear and our kids are now to the age where it MATTERS what they wear. Still I manage to do this. Now, this being said, I do not work and my H makes decent money but not in the triple digits or anything...and we own two homes and the REASON we do is BECAUSE I am extraordinarily careful about stretching our dollars, as you can see. And this is only a partial list of how I am able to get our "needs" met and STILL have money to buy a second home. People are shocked when I tell them this is what I do with my "free time". But that's ok, it's worth it for me to stay home with my children but THIS is why it irritates me when people say you "have to" have two-incomes these days. You DON'T if you go to extreme measures. The problem is that we have been taught to want INSTANT GRATIFICATION and it's too hard for most people to NOT have instant gratification. We do a lot of waiting for things around here but that is ok...our family life is worth it. I do exactly the same things, i clip coupons every week and save in the vicinity of $50.00 each time i go to the grocery store, i use gas perks for fuel, i do not have a cell phone although my H does have one but it is paid for by his company, i buy all of our clothes at second hand shops or the clearance racks where i can ususally find things even cheaper than yard sale or second hand store prices, we do have basic cable and dial up internet which are not necessities but we at least go the cheapest way, none of our children got their driver's license until they turned 18 (my son is still waiting) because we could not afford driver's ed. These are just some of the ways we make it on 2 incomes and neither of us have a 401K or anything else that we contribute into. PS i do not have year round yard sale weather so i can only go when they are happening so i was wrong when i said better than yard sale prices, but definitely better than a lot of the second hand places i frequent.
Last edited by Still_Crazy; 04/22/09 11:22 AM. Reason: added the PS
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But, if you truly want to see the difference you all should coach a women's team and then a guy's team. It is truly amazing. Interesting thoughts JL. I did just that thing the past 2-years at the high school level. All the team's I ever played on, the girls would rip their opponents head off to win. ETA: And wouldn't have a problem ripping the head off their teammate either. I agree, they scare me LOL 
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These are just some of the ways we make it on 2 incomes Well I am so glad to hear that I am not the only one!!! And where in the WORLD do you find clothes at second-hand stores or clearance racks that are LESS than the $.25-.50/item at most yard sales?!?!? THAT is impressive!
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. 
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I know this all too well and usually nothing can penetrate that focus either which to me is not a “talent” it is detrimental in our M IMHO as I feel like I never truly have my H’s “undivided attention” because he is really focusing on something else and not really listening to what I am asking or saying to him. And it comes pretty natural to him; he seems to be this way most of the time. Ok, here is where I get exercised. YOUR attitude is exactly why schools are a hostile environment for boys. You don't view what we do as "talent", so you are going to change it. Young boys seem to come in two activity states: running around and deeply focused. Neither of those states are appreciated, nor effectively used in the educational system. Instead they are expected to sit "quietly" in their seats, respond appropriately to all stimulus around them, and shift topics constantly. Young children don't have a lot of focus but what they have should be nutured. Oh! and curiosity???? Forget it. JL This is as far from the truth about who I really am. I fought with my son’s teachers who wanted to label him as ADD and put him on medicine. And I played Power Rangers with all of my children (I always had to be one of the boy rangers because the girls both wanted to be the two girl rangers) and we made up silly songs and words that we still sing and laugh about to this day and we played the ABC game in the car when we were riding anywhere. I will leave this thread with this last comment as to not keep upsetting Pep. To me, this just proves more my thought that the majority of men are not feminized at all, they still believe they are the “better” gender and they think that if a woman speaks her mind at all she is trying to undermine his manhood somehow.
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These are just some of the ways we make it on 2 incomes Well I am so glad to hear that I am not the only one!!! And where in the WORLD do you find clothes at second-hand stores or clearance racks that are LESS than the $.25-.50/item at most yard sales?!?!? THAT is impressive! Ya know this is going to require a whole other thread. LOL
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Unfortunately, often their "opponent" is their own TEAMMATE. lol, I think Texas must hold the record on the number of kids (and parents!) who attack other teammates (or opponents) in order to win.
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I will leave this thread with this last comment as to not keep upsetting Pep. YOU silly !
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To me, this just proves more my thought that the majority of men are not feminized at all, they still believe they are the “better” gender and they think that if a woman speaks her mind at all she is trying to undermine his manhood somehow. Before you leave ... Do you feel that you cannot speak your mind to a man without undermining his manhood? Or is it just certain topics?
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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To me, this just proves more my thought that the majority of men are not feminized at all, they still believe they are the “better” gender and they think that if a woman speaks her mind at all she is trying to undermine his manhood somehow. <Where's the rolly-eyes smilie when you need it???> Sure, there are pig-headed men out there who feel and act this way but to say the MAJORITY is just as haughty. IMO that is a strong generalization and very disrespectful to the male gender. I wonder how your H feels about your thoughts... [P.S. And what about all the WOMEN out there who think and act like THEY are the better gender??? There are at least as many and probably more. We can thank the "women's lib" movement for that.]
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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