Believe me this isn't a "bash GL" thread. I just wanted to say something as an FWW.

You often tell people that if they "make themselves happy" their spouse will follow along.

As an FWW I have to say that it was my H fighting for me and making me very aware of how much I and our marriage meant to him that turned me around. If he'd just "acted happy and got on with his life" it just wouldn't have worked.

My H stood up as a man and claimed me. He did a Plan A on me without even knowing what a Plan A was.

We had a 28 year old marriage to fight for. It was worth it. We now have a nearly 35 year old marriage.

To add from the above...

I know for a fact, that if I had not put up one heck of a fight (carrot and stick of Plan A) for my M, I'd be divorced right now.

There was no discussing the future, my hopes, his hopes .... WH was wayward in his thinking. The A would have most definitely continued on.

Dealing with infidelity doesn't come close to dealing with any other issue in M. It has a very specific plan of it's own.

Vittoria, that is all SO true. MB is counter intuitive, which is why people look askance at it, but from the moment I read all the articles on the site I knew we were on to a winner.

As an FWW I found the articles and the letters that Dr Harley answered SO helpful. I still have my bound copy (yes really lol) of all the articles I printed off.

If it wasn't for MB and the people here who supported me and 2x4d me and the wonderful plans we would be divorced.

GL, I know you say every situation is different and one size doesn't fit all but, you know, when you're dealing with infidelity it's the same old story told over and over and over again and there really aren't any "unique" situations. That's what Dr Harley knows and that's why this programme works.

You know what? That's not even the point. The point is: Lacey has spoken to Dr. Harley personally and he has told her that ALL opinions are welcome on HIS forum. I read the emails.

He doesn't want people chased away from here by anyone. And that is what is happening. I am trying to hang on 3 more weeks until my divorce is granted so I can post one last time but I don't know if I am going to make it.

Go ahead, delete this post, too.

Charlotte

DM, do you really think that I, as an FWW, who has been called a drunken whore on this board would want anyone chased away.

I just had to say something. I think GL is a lovely person. I think she has a great heart. I'm an FWW, and I know that MB worked for me and my H, that's all I wanted to say.

I have NOT been disrespectful to GL in any way whatsoever.

It's not you, Kiwi. But there IS a campaign going on to get her banned. I GAR-OAN-TEE it.

Charlotte

There may be. That would be sad. LOL, can't you knock some sense into that son of yours. He's got a lovely girl there and he needs to recognise it.

Yes. It would be very sad. Ha ha! Well, I couldn't knock any sense into his father! Currently I'm waiting for Shiny to do that...or more accurately...knock something OUT of him, LOL! And he'd better hope it's not his teeth!

Well, Gray's XW and ODS's siblings are now informed and there for support as well. Gray? HAIL no! He's too busy wallowing in his own crap to care about anyone else, even his kids.

Okay, back to homework for me.

Take care,

Charlotte

DM, the chances of an A surviving are next to nil.

My point is, that this is a forum open to opinions, none of us have degrees, except for the Harleys. And everything that I have posted I have done so in an effort to help, even if you don't agree with my tactics. I understand you all have worked with Dr. Harley's methods and they have worked very well for you and I am very happy for you. I also know that all of my posts are not completely against Dr. Harley's ways, yes some of them are, but not all of them.

I have emailed Dr. Harley because I was unsure about the rules of the board. He told me that all opinions are welcome even if they disagree with his. If the Welcome Message that keeps getting used against people like me that are willing to think outside of the Harley box were really read by those that use it negatively they would see that everything that posted is personal opinion, unless its quoted from someone else. And it is ridiculous when a person can't even express that opinion with out it being shut down for no GOOD reason.

I just think that we are all adults here, and we should treat each other with respect. I have always had the best of intentions with each and every single post. I understand that some of you don't like my methods and that you feel I am stepping on toes, but that is not my intention.

Very true...we are a community....not a dictatorship. There is not one ring to rule them all if you go by the lord of the rings saga.
I know I own my opinion as you all own yours...NO ONE rules over mine or forces me to say what I do not have faith in.

I know right from wrong...it's a fundamental we are all given starting at early ages. Yes I have been here a while and Know the "rules". But I do agree not all scenerio's are the same. Thats why people were given problem solving skills to adapt to a different scenerio than they are used to.

This is also why the founding fathers of the united states gave us freedom of speech...they knew not all people were alike and they knew not all people would agree....opinions would vary from person to person. But they did not want to be ruled again by fear. So they gave people a chance to be open.

I'm open to a healthy debate...it's all in good faith and learning. How about you all?

GL, I understand all of that, believe me I do. But, and here comes the but, you are here on MB. We work to the plans. That's why we're here and not on any of the other boards, and there are lots of them, which cover infidelity.

I KNOW your intentions are good, that's why I like you. But, and here comes another "but" lol, desperate times call for desperate measures. It's just not that simple when you're dealing with infidelity.

I've read your posts. They are based in a "reality" that just doesn't work with infidelity. You have a great deal of common sense and a very big heart but it's the counter intuitiveness of MB that works so well.

Of course everyone's opinions matter but, as I've said before, you're here on MB and MB is unique in its Plans and we know they work and that's why we urge people to use them.

People are here because they want to save their marriages. They know very well that divorce is an option but they come here because they want to recover. Not everyone does but a lot do. That's reason enough for me to continue posting on MB.

GL,

Do you know what I respect about this board?

If I mess up with a piece of advice, someone corrects me, and thank goodness for that.

I have to be open to critical thinking, it allows me to learn.

A-hem

>I know for a fact, that if I had not put up one heck of a fight (carrot and stick of Plan A) for my M, I'd be divorced right now.


ME too.

(and I loves me some KiwiJennay!)

These two post themselves are contradicting, you say your husband did a plan A even though he did not know what Plan A was and then you say MB is counter intuitive.

I disagree with that. I believe most of the MB philosophy goes right along with the Golden Rule (do unto others). I did Plan A and Plan B and I had not even went to ANY websites much less MB.

If anyone posts ADVICE to people asking for advice - it is generally done with the best intentions. Otherwise, why do it?

If anyone's ADVICE on MB is questioned, it is usally under question because the ADVICE lacks something. Lacks WISDOM? Lacks LOGIC? Lacks EXPERIENCE?

The PERSON who posts ADVICE that goes against Harley's standards is indeed FREE TO DO SO.

That does not mean their ADVICE will go unquestioned and unchallenged.

The questioning and challenging of each other's ADVICE is a good thing.

Having our ideas and thoughts challenged is GOOD FOR US !

It makes us DEFEND our LOGIC, our WISDOM and our EXPERIENCE. And that process deepens our understanding of ourselves and why we think the way we think.

It is a GOOD thing when people challenge and question each other here. It's a growing experience if you let it be.

Get used to it.

And if you take it personally - there is a lesson there too !

This is not a defense of logic or wisdom or experience ~~~> "It's my opinion and I have a right to express my opinion."

Taking that position is not a growing experience.

me too

A-hem

Yes, all opinions are welcome. Even those that oppose you.

No one is entitled to not be challenged, though. Not even Dr Harley claims that entitlement on his own board. If you want to challenge others, don't complain when you are challenged in kind.

Let's get back to Marriage Building. Thank you!