ugh! I don't blame you, what a turn off! I liked him until you told me that.

Well, I still like him. I don't know how much he actually thought about doing it whenever he and Slag had these discussions because I just kinda changed the subject when he brought it up, LOL! It might have been a fleeting thing.

But...not taking any chances and I think he might want to ask me out when everything is done. I would go if it was clear that we are just pals going, no romance. Otherwise...sorry, washing my hair!!



Charlotte

DM, thank you for your kind wishes. You knew that when I said I was going to bed I'd have to have one last peek here, didn't you? Well I'm going right now, but first I have to say about this:

GL, you're going to feel that you're getting unfairly bashed again, because people here leap on whatever you say. However, I have to leap on this.

What a bizarre way to look at these marriages!

Having sexual relations with another person while married is not "intimacy". Involvement with another person destroys intimacy with one's spouse. Regardless of the outward affection you see displayed, and of the tender words you hear spoken about the spouse, what you are seeing is not intimacy. There can be no intimacy in a marriage in which other partners exist. The extra-marital activity might make the spouses grateful to each other for allowing it, and might make each spouse more tolerant of the other's faults. Swinging might be the reason why they are able to stay in the problematic marriages, but such is not intimacy.

It beats me that you can be envious of couples who have sex with other people in order to make their marriages tolerable. I think that focusing on each other and the problems in the marriage, and trying to make the marriage a wonderful place to be, is the way to happiness. Dr Harley's programme teaches how this can be done, and when both spouses use MB, the outcome is success. When both couples swing, there is a 95% chance of failure, for the reasons Mel (and Dr Harley) cite.

The idea that having barnyard sex with other animals will create "intimacy" in a marriage is a ludicrous. GEtting one's needs met outside of marriage does not create "intimacy;" it ERODES it and is the "perfect recipe for divorce" with a 98% divorce rate.

You're welcome! And of course I knew! Hee hee!!

I think what Lacey means is that she is jealous of their intimacy, not their lifestyle! That was my take on it, anyway. Maybe she can clarify.

Charlotte

Okay, nevermind that....it's too gross. And most of those folks are dead now.



Charlotte

This one goes with the too gross thing so it's a goner, too.

shut yore mouth!!

I did! I went back and edited!



Now people will wonder, though, LOL!

Charlotte

That's ok, I don't feel bashed about this, because its not my marriage or idealisms that we are talking about. But I can tell you that you don't know these people, you don't know what they think or how they feel. I can also say that I don't know how they think or even how they really feel. All I know is what they tell me. I am not condoning what they do, but if it makes them happy I am not condemning it either. I do know is that I see that they are very happy together, in and out of their sex lives. It is not the lifestyle that makes them happy, its the intensity that they feel for each other. One of them was a very good friend of mine, and sometimes she gave me more details than I wanted because I always saw her like a mom and even called her Mom. But she described it to me like this....

There are times when you need to open your mind as well as your body. I love my H and I love having sex with my H, but I also enjoy watching him have sex with another woman as well as he enjoys seeing me with another man. It makes us feel even closer and it makes us want eacht other even more. Its like having your cake and eating it too. It is so much more fun than just regular sex, and we have plenty of that, but after a while, you gotta spice it up, and since we've done pretty much everything together there is only enjoying sex with others left. Not to mention it drives him crazy when he sees me with another woman, he can hardly hold on and wait to join.

I am only paraphrasing, because it has been a while since she said this to me. But I see how much they love each other and they have been together for at least 20 years. They have a beautiful relationship. You may not think so, and that is fine. But I think so and I hope they always keep that spark that they have, it is really cute to see them together, some times to the point of it getting gross. lol. It just depends on who you are and what you are willing to do. Like I said I would not do this, but I am not them. And it is very possible that the two couples that I am speaking of are in that 2% that can make it work.

Well, that's fine for them. I can understand it.

But not for me! No way, no how!

But then, I don't even know what sex IS anymore, so that's okay.

It's safer that way.



Charlotte

It's also possible they will get a divorce.

Perhaps these people can survive such a marriage, but what kind of intimacy is it when a man needs to see his wife acting like a pig in a deviant sex act with another woman to get aroused? What does that say for the state of their marriage when they have to GO OUTSIDE of their marriage to get sexually fulfilled? That denotes a great LACKING, not a strength. If one can't get their needs met in a marriage, that is a problem, not an asset.

I think that getting one's jollies through deviant styles of adultery [and that is all this is, condoned adultery and sexual deviance] misses the whole point of making love. It is not making love, it is getting off. Like barnyard animals. It relegates what is supposed to be an act of love to nothing more significant than 2 pigs rutting in the pig pen. It is sick and putrid to those who can appreciate that sex is the result of LOVE, much more than 2 jackrabbits getting it on.

The failure rate of swinging marriages is 98%. I betcha the failure rate of Russian Roulette is even lower than that. But I think common sense dictates that RR is not a smart strategy if you value your life. Nor is swinging a smart strategy if you value your marriage.

Its also possible that anyone and everyone that gets married will get a divorce. Unless you can predict the future. I didn't say that they wouldn't, I just said that that its working for them. If that changes, then too bad for them, but I'm not trying to predict the future, just saying that I know two couples that are swingers and they love the lifestyle and they love their partners.

Which is greater: 98% or 50%? If you were a betting woman, which would you bet on, the marriage that had a 98% failure rate or the one that had a 50% failure rate?

Which one do you think would most likely fail? The one with the 98% failure rate or the one with the 50% failure rate? Tough question, I know....

We're done here folks - this is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site.