James,

Nuttin wrong with bassface. It makes each musician unique!

Quick update to today. Drac has been a 'bit' friendly in email the last few days,,,so I have been suspicious. Wed nights are his usual nights with Ladybug. He was out of town today for work and unsure about his return time, so he'd asked that I get her from latchkey & he'd pick her up when he got back.

No big deal.

Then, mid afternoon, I get a text message that he was just leaving to head home. Then another later saying he was about an hour away. Then another that says, "5 minutes out. Need 2 talk 2 u".


Now I am TOTALLY suspicious!! I figured what with the latest ho spending the night & her car being there Sunday when I dropped DSS off, and his continued activity on match.com, I was still persona non grata.

I had to reply and tell him we were at McD's. He came there. It's the first I've seen him or that we have verbally spoken since the incident a couple of months ago with DSS. I will admit to being disappointed in myself that I wasn't in my true "Goddess" form,,, of course this is the first day in a long, long time I wasn't dressed to the 9's! Figures!

Anyway, turns out he wanted to talk about things going on at work??!!! About how he 'had' to go out of town when it wasn't necessary. The 'training' was a waste of time. How a position I have talked about being interested in for years was 'handed over' to someone without being posted. yada yada yada.

Mostly I just looked at him, nodded, or responded with a raised eyebrow. No more moral support from me to him. Not my job any more. Nor did I ask many questions, other than "Really?" or "And?"

I can't gauge his reaction to my non-reaction, because I don't really care.

I suspect he was trying to get me to talk about what my new position is. I haven't told him anything about it,,,,,,,,,and I don't intend to tell him anything. It has nothing to do with him and is none of his business.

Other than that, I totally don't understand WHY he 'had to talk to me'. I don't get it???

We had to walk to the car and get DD's book bag. He asked if I'd heard about a teacher at DSS's school getting let go because of inappropriate activity with her male students (and her husband's football players). I said no. He told me what he'd heard on the news and that he had called "Janet, whose daughter is DSS's age" (my assumption is that this is one of his 'date' friends). I just listened. Obviously, this would be something I'll hear about when I have time to listen to the news!! Don't know why he felt compelled to talk to me about it, as we BOTH have no worries about DSS having been involved in anything to do with it.

I walked away feeling strange. Why? Not because I had a churning stomach like in the past,,,,but rather for the very fact that this was one of the few times I HAVEN'T felt that way! Kinda nice. Kinda weird.

Translation: My needs aren't being met by the ho's.. I need someone to commiserate with me about work and the kids, and only you will do. I'll just use you to alleviate that burden and be on my way.


Feh..

Your reaction was perfect.

Drac= MAROON

It's crazy how he thinks he still has the right to reach for you after all he's done.

As we knew, Bugs, you are irreplaceable.


Well, you're looking good from this side of the screen!

I stretched my comfort zone quite a bit yesterday and voiced a concern - it's a long story but essentially the situation driving this made me feel like a 5 year old that was having privileges taken away.

Fox------>






We talked - he was very concerned that I was mad. I was more hurt than anything - and tried to tell him what I felt like when he made comments like the one he made. He was surprised that I took it the way I did because that isn't how he meant it.

I know I'm sometimes overly sensitive and take things personally. I'm so critical of myself that I think others are doing the same thing. However, I can't brush everything under the rug and write it off to being too sensitive. I have a right to feel what I feel - I just now also see the necessity of bringing into the open. Only so much can fit under the rug - eventually it starts peeking out the sides. KWIM?

I think we ended the conversation okay.

Hmmmm----be right back - my wireless keyboard signal is low?

Okay....batteries replaced. (Leave it alone, BC)


Absolutely. You'll never have a chance to address it if you are never aware of it. It's a stepping stone.....


YIPES!

HRG and I say alot of things that MEAN ILY but never actually have said it. I think he knows it would send me running for the hills. Not because I don't want to hear it...... but I don't know.

It takes it to a different level, from a just right now kinda thing to a commitment, obligation, and responsibility to do no harm. KWIM? ILY gives the other person the knowledge that they CAN hurt you and the power to do so.

I'm sure I've "overthunk" again.


You are my hero.

I hope you are writing a "How to for dummies".


Excellent outcome.

I learn so much from you on this subject, Bugsy. Thank you.

Fox

James,

I suspect perhaps you are right on the 'needs' thing, but I still am shaking my head. For goodness sake, the current ho works at the same place, why isn't he talking to HER about this?

As Foxxy said, how is it possible that he thinks he has the right to come to me after everything that has happened? Well, let's be honest, I have been responsive in meeting this 'need' in the past. This was TRULY the FIRST time that I didn't meet it in any way other than to sit there and listen. So, I guess the answer is that he thinks it's ok because I've made it ok in the past.

No more.

I am also shaking my head because he then sent me a text that night asking about a photo order form for Ladybugs. It wasn't a necessary question at all.

Then, yesterday morning he sent me a web link about the teacher at DSS's school.

WEIRD.

I am a bit suspicious. I just get the feeling he is being nicer because he's building up to something or wanting something. Almost every time in the past when he's been 'nicer' or when he has initiated better communication it is usually followed up with him being up to or wanting something. Although a friend of mine pointed out that every time in the past, he hit pretty quick with what he wanted. He's been being nice for almost a week now without a word about what he wants,,,,,,,,,,,

Whatever.

I'd rather talk about you, Miss Fox. You are doing better than I suspect you think you are doing. I'm SO glad to hear that you let HRG know about your concern!



And then you find out that he had NO idea that you might think/feel the way you did about it.

Stop and think about that. I think that you are likely doing negative self talk about 'why DID I think or feel that way'. Don't go too far down that road.

What's more important is that you TALKED about it, not about how you felt was 'right' or 'wrong'. You felt the way you felt and he needed to know.

You were able to talk about it. He learned about you. You learned about him. THAT is positive progess in a R,,,,and if I'm not mistaken, it is the way a healthy relationship is supposed to work!




I TOTALLY get what you are saying about that! When R said it, I felt knocked off my feet! I was awash in so many emotions.

I was thrilled, excited, overwhelmed, amazed, scared, and nervous. Then, it was the sick to the stomach feeling,,,,,,asking myself, "Do I say it back?" My response was "Really?".

He expected me to say it back. When I didn't, he asked for it, and I did say it. So then it was "OUT THERE". After a couple of weeks, when it was always him saying it first, it became an 'issue' which we had to talk about.

Unfortunately, he chose to start the conversation via email, which made me a bit angry at first. We had been together for the weekend, and then he sent an email right after he left.

Rather than detail it all, it came down to just being open and honest with each other. I explained how I felt and asked for his understanding. Does he completely understand? Probably not. But I was able to rectify some incorrect assumptions he had (he thought I am still in love with Drac). I was able to explain more about the damage and my perceptions of how I want my future relationship to be. And, if he's on board with it, that relationship will be with him.



I agree with and understand what you are saying here. It's a BIG step. I said as much to R. It's something I take EXTREMELY seriously.

We'd talked about him meeting the kids. He couldn't understand why I'd want him to meet the kids BEFORE I was at the ILY stage. I explained that part of the ILY stage involves the kids. I have no doubt he's going to be absolutely wonderful with the kids. But there's no guarantees in life & if things AREN'T great between them all, the ILY isn't going to be applicable. I can not and will not move forward in a relationship without the situation/invovlement with the kids being positive.

If it's not good between them, it's not good between US.

Does that make sense?




I appreciate the compliment,,,, but there's no way I'm writing anything 'for dummies' when I still totally feel like I am one of them!

I've been working on this post off & on over my 2 hour conference call, which just ended. I intend to get some final work done and am headed outside. It's beautiful out there and I have yard work to complete before the rain moves in tonight!

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Um, because you let him? Granted, you didn't know ahead of time that his 'need 2 talk' wasn't about anything of importance to you, but now you know for the future that just because he thinks it's important to talk to you doesn't mean it actually is.

It's still meeting his need, actually.

Good job

Dang Bugs! It's so good to hear how well things are going for you. So good to hear that Drac can no longer hurt you.

Drac. What a loser. One of these days he'll get tired of the Ho of the Week game that he plays. Hopefully though, he'll have a steady supply of them to keep him out of your hair. Gee, what a great BF he must make. Kind of makes you feel sorry for the next Ho.

Bugsy:

I can't speak much about your R with R. Cuz, I'm sorta bad at that....

But I just have on hint from now on:

When you get the "I need to talk to you" from Drac? Set your Cell phone allarm to go off in 6-7 minutes after you arrive. Youcan "answer the phone" and step away. And then, you can GO.

Poor pitiful Drac. He has no one to talk to.

And its killing him that the doesn't know what you are doing.

If it's not Ladybugs or DSS's discussion, then it doesn't matter.

7 minutes, TOPS!

LG

Thanks, Bugsy. It's certainly something I'm working on still.


I probably made it sound better than it was. We did talk about it, but I still wasn't as open as I should have been. There's still alot of self protection going on there.

This one, I think I can let go of because we DID discuss it, even not everything got out of me that should have.

There is still a comment riding on my mind from fairly early on with HRG. Part of me says that he was only trying to give me options and find varying solutions.

I was talking about my plans to move, what I thought I might be able to do, etc - I did not say anything about financing concerns. He made a comment suggesting I look into low income housing.

I can't tell you what that did to me.

Immediately I thought, "he thinks I'm incompetant and unable to provide for myself and DDs. That's all the faith and belief he has in me and my capabilities."

I literally felt the steel wall come from the bottom of my toes and SLAM! into place at the top of my head. I don't even remember responding to him. The conversation just stopped.

The rest of the day I was withdrawn. I remember EXACTLY where we were and what we were doing at that moment in the conversation - and the absolute shut down that occured.

It used to drive WxH nuts that I could remember all the minute details - usually down to what we were WEARING. That's how important some of these issues are to me - or just how badly they hurt. WxH could only remember that he was mad - not the reason, just the fact that he was mad.

Anyhoo, that simple statement by HRG still hangs on in my mind - and is then brought back again when something new happens.

It seems stupid to bring up at this point, it was quite a while ago - and I really do know that he didn't mean to put me down with it. I just dont' know how to let it go.




That's too cute!



Yipes! That sounds a little awkward.


It's great that you can talk about it. Awkward or not.

I find it just waiting on the tip of my tongue sometimes..... and I cannot let it escape.

I have a fear of him saying because as soon as he does, I'm going to think - "Well, you don't know me very well then. As soon as you do, that will change."


He may have felt more comfortable and less confrontational by sending an email about it. I do this - I think I "speak" better in writing than I do by talking, and I can keep the emotion out of it and be able to say all of what I need to say to get it all out of my brain. (hard to build intimacy that way, though)


Good job!

There is so much I need to find the courage to talk about with HRG. Your posts encourage me - and show me it might just be safe enough to do so.


Absolutely, it makes sense.

But be careful, too. DD14 DOES NOT approve of HRG AT ALL. I don't think it is him personally, I think it will be ANYONE who is not her dad. HRG is very good to DD14, the few times they are together anymore. I generally don't see much of HRG when DD14 is with me because she is borderline rude to him.

I know you know this, but don't let the kids be the sole deciding factor. I'd be alone for the rest of my days if I did that.

You have an extra twist with DSS. It might be pretty tough on him. What does R think of that situation - you still being so close to DSS and having time with him?

Hope you had a FANTASTIC weekend! Thanks for all the insight!

Fox

Hi everyone!

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I see that just sitting and listening does 'meet his need' in some form. I'd like to think, though, that by not actively participating in the conversation as I have in the past, that Drac walked away still "wanting".

Even if he didn't, I am better this time around than ever before. I was able to control my sometimes 'uncontrollable giver'. You know, that polite/nice little girl my momma raised to have good manners, even if the person you are around doesn't have good manners?! I managed to keep her underwraps this time around!

Chai, I wish I could honestly say 100% that Drac can no longer hurt me. That would be a lie. The difference with this conversation was that I was able to control that 'nice girl' and give him my minimum. There was/is a small part of me inside that WANTED to participate in that conversation. A part that misses talking to him and sharing ideas/thoughts.

By controlling myself better, I know that I lessened his ability to hurt me. He can really only hurt me now if I allow it. If I open myself up one tiny little bit to the want/need of the past. I don't want to do that. And this time, I didn't. Of that, I am proud.

Well, well, Miss Cowgirl! What a thorough post you have here!

Let's see if I can do such a good job in my reply.



Yep! Know what ya mean here for sure! And for now, that's ok. The good thing is that you are aware of what you are doing, and you are actively thinking about it, with the intent to change (eventually). Right?

Ok, now to the that old comment that keeps poking at you.



Are you perhaps punishing him for someone else's sins here?

Are you reverting back a bit to the less confident Foxx?

Probably a bit of both.

You need to figure out what drove you to have that immediate response. I don't think that really is the person you are today, is it? We all fall back a bit from time to time with old thoughts and habits. Just don't let it continue.

That being said, I'd also point out that his comment was very much a "guy" answer. You were talking about your thoughts, your ideas, your plans. You weren't ASKING for him to fix it or to tell you what to do.

If you are like me, (which you very often are), I get quite prickly when a man always tried to FIX things that I didn't ask for him to FIX. In conversations that are just me talking about my 'stuff', I most often don't want/need anything more than someone to listen.

As a general rule of thumb, the natural reaction of a man is to FIX whatever it is and move on.

So, whatever his reason for saying it and whatever your reason for still feeling hurt about it - - - you DO need to tell him.

For what it's worth, here's what "I'd" do. VERY soon, in conversation where you are face to face, just simply tell him about it. It doesn't have to be a big huge, "I need to talk to you" sort of thing.

Simply say, "HRG, there's something I have had on my mind and I just have to get it off my mind. Some time ago, we were having a conversation about my plans to move and you said something that really hurt me. You suggested that I look into low income housing. I don't think you meant it in a bad way, but it really did hurt my feelings.

It made me feel like you think I'm incompetant and unable to provide for myself and DDs. That's all the faith and belief you have in me and my capabilities.

Now, I realize that my immediate reation was off base, but it's been nagging at me ever since you said it. I just needed to tell you that it hurt."

And leave it there for him to respond. If you are not angry or weepy about it, chances are it will be a very simple conversation. His likely response will be, "Foxx, I am sorry that hurt you, because I most certainly did not mean it that way at all!"

You can then, if you choose, to elaborate about why you think you reacted with that feeling and go from there. Perhaps down a road of a little less 'self protection'?




Ah ha! Good old fashion betrayed spouse insecurity rearing it's ugly head here!

It's very similar to my reaction when I first found out that R was interested in me at all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and again after he said ILY.

I wasn't quite so honest with myself. I kept it at the "How can you possibly say that when you really don't even know me?"

But your same quote was the extention of that thought inside my head.

Fight it. You are WAY past going down that road my friend. Don't make me break out the Stewart Smalley utube video link to remind you that you are Good Enough, Smart Enough, and Gosh Darn it, People Like you!!

I was just thinking this morning in the shower about the 'damage path' Drac created in me. I've done a HUGE amount of clearing up of debris and reconstruction, I also can still see the area of destruction underneath all of the new/exciting/wonderful repairs and changes. The wounds are still healing.

It's more noticable when hitting different developmental areas in a new relationship. I feel it's natural to stop and look, realizing I've been here before. Having been here before, I know that in the end, I was hurt.

I then have a choice. I can allow that previous hurt/damage to keep me from traveling down this path again OR I can acknowledge that it's not the SAME as before. It's rebuilt. Like the 6 Million Dollar Man - better, stronger, faster!

By not allowing Drac's damage path to prevent me from taking ANY path I choose in life, I further recover from his destruction.

It's ok to pause. Just don't stop the journey. Unless or until you decide that HRG isn't the one with which to take that journey.

Hi Bugs,

I have this EXACT feeling. I find myself in a different place today. Somewhat giving up and just having him be my friend.

I MISS my best friend. The only part that holds me sane on this is WHO would I be talking to. Not MY H because he is the wayward and therefore the conversation wouldn't be the same because who he has become is selfish and his answers and reactions wouldn't come from the same place.

Bugs, your growth, strength and ability to understand yourself is awesome to watch unfold.

Oh, heck yeah, I know her. It's quite the struggle to stuff her sometimes - she is sure strong for bein' so darn polite!


Boy, do I know this feeling, too. Having an "issue" with this particular subject today - I'll post on my thread.


Is wordy the same as thorough?


You did wonderful, my darling.


Thanks for bringing me back around to this..... you are absolutely right.


I think you are right on both counts.

Punishing him for someone else's sins.......probably yes, but not just WxH's sins - it goes deeper and further back than that.

Losing confidence......hmmmm, you are right here, too, I think. The question is why. Possibly, because I've made myself somewhat vulnerable, I am looking for an excuse to close that back up.


No, it's not really the person I am trying to be. That little voice is still back there, though, whispering, "Pssst! Fox! You're STILL not good enough. "



I fight it off with "good enough for what? Good enough for who? I just need to be happy with myself."

It's ongoing....... as you can tell.


You are right on with this one, too. The OTHER side of my brain says this - it's just the little niggling thoughts that keep whispering at me.


I think that little voice is just an excuse not to build further intimacy. It says "see, see what he thinks of you. You better back off before he can hurt you more."

The other side says - tell him, talk about it, that little voice will be quieted once it is proven wrong. And if it is proven right? What have I really lost? There will be loss, there will be some hurt - but I've survived WxH.......


That's perfect, Bugs. Just perfect.

One of my concerns with bringing this up, is that I'm afraid that it will scare him into not saying anything at all. Then when I AM looking for suggestions and help, he won't say anything because he is afraid I'll be offended.

KWIM?


I can just about guarantee you that this is what he will say. So why always that little voice causing problems?


I think you are spot on here, too. Somehow, someway, I have to force my way through that little voice - and take the risk. Why do we think it is so unbelievable for someone to love us quickly?

R has known you for quite some time - not romantically but still you. He can probably make a pretty good decision after he has had time with you romantically now, too.

I've known HRG for awhile - also not romantically until after the D. But he knew me through WxH's A and the D. A time when I was at my absolute worst. If he is still around after all that....... he's probably got a good idea of who I am and can make a decent decision on whether he can love me or not.

Well, damn, I think I just hit on something there. Thanks for "talking" it out.....


I so remember that!


Ah, the shower. It's amazing the amount of thinking gets done in the shower!

All excellent points. You are so right. Thank you for bringing back around to where I should be. Self-doubt does no good.



Truly, Bugs, thank you. Such wise words from such a wise woman.

Fox

ITA!!!

Ya know, it's a good thing this forum doesn't have a timeout feature for how long it takes to get a post in - I am WAY too wordy!

Fox

No Way!! I never noticed that!

:twobyfour:



How's that?

I'm trying to behave

You're killin me, you're FRIKIN killin me!!

I said THINKING, BC, not _____king.

Oh, nevermind!!



Fox

Ahhh, BC! You KNOW that we have to intentionally throw out some bait every now and then just to get you to stop by!

I almost deleted the detail of 'where' I was 'thinking', but figured it might be a way to be sure you are still lurking around!

I thought maybe you were too busy with all of the available women out there, with no time for the Amigos!

Foxx, you are doing just fine my dear! Relax.

Enjoy the warm weather and prepare for the what will hopefully be your last snow!

Hi Bugs,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights about how to approach life with 'healthier' coping mechanisms. Very much appreciated.

Hey Luna! It's been a while. How are you? Hope all is well.

Well, I'm still working on the 'using healthier coping mechanisms.' Definately a work in progress!

I had a nice surprise when R called Thursday night and told me he'd decided to drive in that night instead of waiting to fly in late Fri night! It was 7 hours and he didn't get here until 2:30 a.m!

I did have to work part of the day Friday, but it's nice to have the option to work from home. He mowed my grass for me! We picked up Ladybug from latchkey and headed over to get DSS. I missed a call from DSS at 5:09, but by the time I saw it, we were almost there to get him. I figured he was just wanting to know when I'd get there,,,,,,,but I'm pretty sure it was because Drac wanted to know.

We pulled up and Drac was in the garage w/the door open,,,,,,,working on his motorcycle with a couple that are friends of his. (supposedly were OUR friends as one time, but they helped him pull off the A with the HO and turned their backs on me). This is the motorcycle he HID during the divorce and then told everyone he sold last year. UGH! I hate that motorcycle, I guess because for me, it's a symbol of all that he was hiding during that time.

I'll be honest with you all. It felt pretty good to pull up with R driving. It didn't hurt that he drives a beautiful Cadillac DTS, either.

I know, , , that's pretty shallow of me, isn't it? Well, I know it is, but that is how I felt.

We went out to eat and R was great with both of the kids. We had a really nice time. Saturday morning when we all got up, the first thing R did was get on the computer to look something up to help DSS with a school project he'd told us about on Friday night. I hadn't said a word, he just did it. I must say, I was quite impressed by that move.

The weather was beautiful and the kids went out to play most of the day. We went to the store & bought a bar-b-que grill. Came home & put it together. It's a thing of beauty! I started to sweep up and clean my screened in porch. R decided we needed to do it 'right', so a trip to Lowes was in order.

He helped me clean the entire porch, all of the furniture, and he installed a new light for me. It looks great. He then grilled out for dinner. He had planned to take us all to the movies 'because Ladybugs wants to see x movie,,,,we should go'. Totally his idea & again, it impressed me. We ended up not going because the kids were having lots of fun and weren't in the mood to get cleaned up to go, which was fine.

This morning, since he was driving home, he got ready to go early in the morning. My mom was coming over to go to church with us,,,,,and he 'tried' to sneak out before meeting her. He KNEW I wanted him to stay to meet her, so he didn't put up a fight. ha! Short version - - Mom approves.

I asked the kids and they both really like him. I'm not surprised, but will say I'm a bit relieved to have the initial meeting over & that it all went so well.

Honestly, it was one of the best weekends I've had in a long time. Even though we didn't do anything 'special', it was wonderful. It was great to have someone here with me, just doing 'normal' stuff. I love that we work well together. Putting together the grill,,,putting in the light,,,,it just seemed so very natural and easy. It was very enjoyable.

And, I'm thinking more & more about the 'L' word.

Took DSS home a bit ago. Drac & the Latest Ho were there, but thankfully not outside! Ladybugs mentioned something about his bike on the way home & I mentioned that he'd said he'd sold it. She replied something about how he lies & how she hates it when he lies to her. So sad! I just changed the subject.

So, am relaxing for the rest of the weekend. Wish it was time for a vacation! That's coming in July & I can't wait.