***edit***

Please stop disrupting this thread.

Thank you.

Maverick

Please do not edit this:

Derosa, if you are willing, get that counseling, even if he isn't willing to go, at least you can get help. In the mean time try some relaxation techniques; screaming in a pillow, going for a run, blasting music that makes you feel better. Working out is also a good way to release stress.

DeRosa if you are still around I really think that you can get help here. I understand that your relationship is very important to you, I lived with my husband for 5 years before we got married so I understand a little of how you feel. And for your anger issues, you need to find a way to release, do you have a gym you can join or a place where you can work out? Something that can take your mind off of what is going on.

As far as feeling stupid and wishing you basically knew better, well some of us are designed to help others where we fail in our own lives. But don't give up on yourself! I am sure that if you took a step back and tried to look at things from a different angle you might get a better view of things. If you both want it to work, then you both have to work for it. you are both going to have to come up with a way to work on building your trust.

With triggers, what all has happened? What is it that you do when these memories come at you? What do you do when you get a flashback? If you can think about the answers to these questions with a level head it should shine some light.

He was emotionally abusive and ended up cheating on me. I was numb for years before the effects of the cheating really hit me.

I am trying to find a good psychologist but the first appointment I was offered is in late August! He will be joining me for some sessions. So for now I can get support from people online and that's it.

I guess my self esteem is a bigger problem these days than my anger. God, it hurts.

I guess feeling stupid has a lot to do with having that naive or innocent trust broken. I don't know what that kind of trust will be replaced by?

I don't really have triggers other than I imagine him sitting at his computer and making the profile. That's it. Otherwise I just feel so scared of loosing him. And when I feel scared I cause us to have conflicts. I become somewhat aggressive when I get to that fearful place.

GoddessLacey - thank you so much for your support.

Because we both want to remain unmarried. Maybe it's different in my country. A lot of couples don't marry in Europe. I know many couples who have lived together for 25 years without being married.

Why would that be exactly?

That is good that he is willing to join you DeRosa even if for a few sessions. That shows progress. I can imagine how your self esteem has been demolished by this. You are going to to have to take that one step at a time. Start doing things that make you happy. And get yourself a manicure or a pedicure. Do something super special for you that will put a smile on your face that will last all day. Put make up on every time you leave the house, dress up every now and then.

OT where in Europe do you live? Sounds interesting, but then again I've never been there, some day though. lol. I understand the whole not getting married thing, my H used to say that he felt that we were already married while we were dating. He still said nothing changed for him when we got married, because he already felt we were married. But I'm glad you came back.

There is a world of difference of living together HALF of the time and being MARRIED .

Apples....Oranges...

committed

GL, just so you understand, this is exactly what Dr Harley says too. He says that rarely does the month to month renter mentality change when a couple marries after living together. And that is the problem. A person can't possibly know what it feels like to be married unless they are married. In these situations, they simply legalize the month to month agreement, which states that they are just THERE as long as the other partner passes the month to month TEST. They don't HAVE a married [buyer] mentality.

It is like the difference between renting a house and buying a house. One is committed to doing what it takes to keep the house in good repair FOR LIFE, the other is just there until something better comes along as long as the place pleases them that month. Hence the 85% DIVORCE RATE among couples who live together before marriage.

Someone who says they "feel" married has no idea what he talking about and I suspect your H does feel the SAME given your current problems in your marriage. If he feels the same as did when he was living together, then he just brought those same feelings into the marriage, just as Dr Harley says they do.

I can understand you advocating living together if you had a good marriage, but you don't. It certainly has not helped your marriage so I am puzzled why you would recommmend something for others that has not worked FOR YOU?

Not to be a downer, derosa, but marriages that occur AFTER living together have an 85% divorce rate. And it is for the very reasons I gave. GL will tell you herself that her marriage is in trouble. At least one partner is never willing to do much more than what comes naturally to maintain the relationship - nothing more. It is like a month to month rental agreement until something better comes along.

Now, can this be changed? YES it can. But it is not likely to be changed by your average "marriage counselor" who knows nothing about the dynamics of marriage in the first place. And much less likely to be effected by a MC who doesn't even understand how living together harms relationships. Marriage counselors have an 84% FAILURE rate so just going to "counseling" is rarely a solution, rather it adds to the problem.

If I were you, I would check out marriage COACHING with Steve Harley over the phone. He does know how to save marriages and he will assess your situation and give you a PLAN. But he does not counsel couples together, most good MC's will not do that because it causes more problems than it solves. IMO, Steve can do in 2-3 sessions what most MC can never do because they are largely ineffective.

Good luck, DeRosa.

It's not different here. Couples don't HAVE to get married but if that is the sort of relationship anyone wants then he shouldn't expect the same commitment as he would if he was married. One can FEEL it's the same but it's not. As the saying goes...no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig...it's still a pig. Wanting to call it some thing else doesn't change that fact.

Mel: this perspective is one I've seen you posting a lot lately and I LOVE it. Seriously, it's only recently, in seeing your posts on the subject, that I've seen it detailed in this way "renters VS buyers" and it makes so much sense!! I swear, IF and when I ever date again, you guys will be my #1 source for sure. SO VERY interesting, true, and helpful!!

Sorry for T/J

You asked:


You don't process emotions. You experience them.
If you are asking what ACTIONS you might take as a response to your emotions my response is:

ANGER - Work it out by doing physical activity.
SADNESS - cry - journal - pray - whatever has helped in the past.



It's a choice. You choose. Of course you "can", but will you? It depends on your personal criteria for forgiveness.



I don't think I'd want to live with my husband if he never forgave me for something I had done in the past, something I did not repeat. If you find you cannot forgive him, in fairness, you need to break this relationship off.

You made contradictory comments:



You cannot "know" he won't do it again because he's already shown he is capable of doing something that "shocked" you both. Therefore, saying "I do know it won't happen again" is wishful thinking. Therefore, your most valuable question to ask yourself is not whether or not you can "forgive him". The really valuable question to ask yourself is this:

Will you make the choice to remain in a relationship where you KNOWINGLY accept there is a risk that your trust could be wrongly placed in him again?

That is the dilemma you face.

It is risk management.

Lots of people live together and never marry in my country (Canada) as well. It was brought up in the other thread- I personally think people just don't put value in marriage any more. The divorce rate is so high, there's obviously nothing in society holding marriages together. Common-law partners have the exact same benefits as legally married spouses with one exception. Upon death if there is no will children automatically inherit anything rather than a common law spouse whereas in a legal marriage, the spouse would automatically get it. From this perspective, it may actually be better to live together if you have children from a previous marriage as well as an accumulation of assets (inheritance) which they would lose if you remarried.

Now, all that said there is a monumentally HUGE difference between living together and marriage. I've done both. In addition to the meaning of the vows (which was important to me but obviously not as important to others), there is the whole joining of families which has a profound effect on your life. As common law, his parents are his parents. As a married couple, they are your mother and father in law. Much more personal and also part of your identity. When you break up with your common law partner, you lose each other. When your marriage fails, you lose mother-in-law, father-in-law, brothers and sisters in law, nieces and nephews the same age as your children, nieces and nephews that haven't been born yet, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc., etc., etc. One day they are your family, the next they are not. The scope of that loss is not knowable if you've not been married.

We live together half of the time because I have decided that it's best for my son to do it gradually. He has just started school, had a baby brother (my ex-h and his girlfriend) and his dad moved. I wanted to give my son one year of relative peace around his school start before we move in full time. We are moving in 6 months. It doesn't mean that we are not as committed as if we already lived together.

Well then... there is a world of difference of living together ALL of the time and being MARRIED .

Apples....Oranges... :crosseyedcrazy:

So what will you tell your son? Mom's decided to move in with BF and we're going to be a family. Legally, you won't but I guess it'll be okay to teach your son otherwise. When he gets old enough, maybe he'll treat his girlfriends the same way. Hey, I love ya, but not enough to marry you.

I live in Denmark. I think you are right about doing something to boost my self confidence. I bought an amazing dress, my mom gave me money for it, and the shop owner said she thought I looked very beautiful. That almost made me cry!

I had a great conversation with my SO today about how my self esteem has been affected. I felt like we got closer.

I still can't find a psychologist who has an opening anytime soon. I don't know what to do about that. I really need help sooner than August!

GL - thank you once more for being there for me without any judgements.

Pepperband - thank you for the advice. You have lots of valid points and helped me reflect on these issues in a more explicit way.

Princessmeggy - do you have kids?