Yes I thought I was over the childhood triggers to my self esteem. I guess they are not all gone. Maybe I used coping devices before to make it easier, like drinking at parties so I could relax around people, etc.

This is why I need to force myself to get out there more. Because the more I am around different people, the more at ease I am with them. I think right now I am going thru a period of low self esteem. Luckily i am not like this all the time. Maybe I need to explore this while it is open to me.

Now I see another reason why your posts have always resonated for me. I feel the same way. Sorry to read that you are also a member of this club.

How do we get out of this club?????? I want to join the club where we make friends with healthy people!!!!!

The best thing I've done so far is reading the Healing the Shame book. Was that you who recommended it, ears? It fits me to a T. Everything I do is based on that toxic shame. It helps so much to recognize that.

ears, I don't think I have bad friends, I just don't have friends period. I had 2 friends in high school who I contact every once in a while. I have one friend from NASA I still see but only because she teaches piano to D18. I have 2 friends from my last job I have met for lunch once (in 3 years). And I have one work friend here I go to eat Mexican food with at lunch every once in awhile.

Aside from that, we used to have a New Years party and invite our street, but fewer and fewer people come each year, so I won't do that any more. We had some block parties, but people stopped going to those, too. So we have maybe 4 families on our street we actually talk to more than once a year. And D18's former best friend, we have hung out with them from time to time, had each over for dinner.

That's about it. Those are the only people I know outside of work and organizations.

But it's a good idea to talk to H about improving that.

Hold, have you ever read the book Healing the Shame That Binds You?

It is VERY eye-opening about people like you and me.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I bought that once. Will have to go down to the basement and see if I can find it in my "library".

Maybe I will have to get that book also!

It is funny, I can toss around real estate deals, handle tax issues, everything in the business world with ease. But there are moments when I have trouble with close personal friendship type relationships.

1. Some of my friends are really TOO dysfunctional to have as friends, these friends were starting to affect me in bad ways.
( a girlfriend who has a string of boyfriends and spouses who use her, cheat on her, take her money, and beat her and then she complains to me about it and I can do nothing, she keeps repeating the behaviors)

2. Some dysfunctional friends were too irritating to be around ( a husband and wife who fought and she verbally abuses him)

3. Normal friends who live too far away.

4. New friends who want me for "business" nothing else. Realtors and such...

5. Online friends Facebook, who I know as aquaintences....

6. People who work for me (bad idea having these as friends)

7. My tenants (bad idea being friends with these)

8. People in the church I have started going to. (these people are in clics and dont need me. They have families too and I do not. )

9. My walking group (I go on walks with them once every week or two but that is where it stops)

I think if I had a consuming hobby that others share, I could meet friends that way. Or even a casual hobby like the walking group, something done regularly.

I lost a bunch of friends in the divorce. I'm fairly gregarious and outgoing, and not in any way shy around people. I had always heard friends tend to choose sides, and since a lot of my friends were her friends before the split, I assumed they remained in her camp. I have since come to find out from the kids that the XW doesn't really keep in touch with them either.

I have a theory... Friends (especially married couples) who witness a divorce, shy away from both sides. It's almost like dissolution is contagious or something. Or maybe they, smartly, just want to avoid the drama and dysfunction.

I have three really good male friends - two of whom I've known for almost 20 years. All three of them suffer from varying degrees of flakiness, and as a result I don't see them as much. I can't stand being around the constant volatility between one of them and his "wife" (common-law ). The other is a perpetually single "ladies man" who goes through women like Kleenex. He drifts in and out of my life like Batman. The other is one foot out of his second marriage. He likes them pretty, skinny, blonde and in their 20s. Unfortunately their IQs usually match their bust sizes.

Ironically, I've been accepted pretty firmly by Jill's cadre. They're a fairly eclectic group of people who've been together for over 10 years. There are two males in the group that she describes as "like brothers". Yes, yes... I know. I watch that like a hawk, believe me.

The subdivisions I have lived in have started up clubs, like a wine tasting club, bunko, tennis, eating out, neighborhood watch...stuff like that. That's going to be my first stop. What about you?

And you too, hold!

As I sit here doing my second job (and this, of course), I find myself feeling not quite so bad about our finances. Why? Because I discovered this show on Style called Maxed Out. We may have outrageous debt, but at least we don't have that same debt at half or a third of our income, like the two couples I've seen so far! One couple spent $800 a month on wine!

Holy cow! $800/month on *wine*? We don't spend that much on food!

Glad you are able to see things in that light. And I think you;re making progress toward getting your finances under better control, right?

Yeah, things are looking up. H came in while that show was on, so I told him a little about it. Later, I'm going to bring up the 'no more than one or two credit cards' rule they had on the show. See if he will cut up at least 2 of his cards. So, at least I'm talking about it now. And my contractor work is helping out some. And I'm really pushing H to get on the ball with some of those other business ideas of his. I got a coworker to create a logo for the company he wants to start, and I set up a blog site for him that might lead to some income. I gave him an assignment, to come up with 20 questions on electronics, so viewers can take a test to see how electronics-literate they are, and hopefully stick around to get some questions answered.

This week has been really good. H has helped out with dinner some, since I'm working at home, has picked up a little, and he helped get the garage sale together (big fiasco - under $100 sold!). But the important thing is, he didn't balk at selling one of the entertainment centers, and even moved it downstairs (but then he didn't take it out, said he wanted me to sell it on eBay). But he helped move out all the other stuff, sat outside the whole time, was really nice to the people, even the Hispanics he presumably hates. He started up once about them and I got mad and said 'Stop it! I don't want to hear you talk like that. If you can't stop, please go inside and leave me alone!' And he stopped! And he got it all started in the morning cos D18 wanted me to take her to her THEA test that started at 8; and he never griped at that.

And later, when D18 was supposed to go across town to go out with our friends' son for his Prom, H wanted all 3 of us to go, and to spend the night. And I very calmly said 'I would rather that you take D18, and I stay here, because I have to get those two chapters edited (my side job).' So he just said ok! They didn't get home til about 10 this morning, so I had some nice time alone.

All in all, things are progressing.

Cat, that was an inspiring update! How's the week going?

Thanks for asking. Things are going very well, better than I would have expected. Now that I'm approaching everything differently, looking for things to change, it's falling into place. He wants me to love him, I know that. The more I change, the more he changes. Since I've started this after hours editing job, he has been calling and offering to pick up pizza (!), coming home and making dinner (!), he even put away his pants when I brought them in from laundry and asked him to hang them up!

The best thing, is I keep finding all the little things I was doing to sabotage our marriage. That I never saw before. Maybe that's why I pushed SW so hard. I KNOW those little things are there - I'm seeing them in myself. But I'm rid of the resentment now, so I can work on being a better person without saying 'what about me?'

That's so cool, cat, thanks for sharing! I hear you about when you shift behaviors how you notice little things that you didn't notice before. I noticed that my friends call in the evening quite a bit, and that it was an AH to H, so I started calling them, earlier in the day, so we're caught up when I get home.

Exactly! It's all in the mind frame.

I equate it to weeding. When your bed is full of weeds, you attack the biggest, most aggressive ones first. You feel good. Once you're done, though, you see that there are a lot of little stragglers you never noticed, because the biggest offenders caught your eye. So you take out the stragglers. Then, when you're ready to mulch, you see all the little babies, 1/4 inch tall, that are sprouting, that you can see when you get calm and still and really look closely.

You never would have seen those when you started. But once you get the big job over with, you've got all the little things to tackle that make the garden look like Mr Miyagi's.

Glad to hear things are going well for you Cat.

Thank you!

CAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm getting goosebumps!!! This is awesome!

You ARE truly the posterchild for the MB-Work-On-Yourself-The-Rest-Will-Follow philosophy.

Cat! Great! Will you go and put this on HOLD"S thread? I have told him this for years....

Thanks for sharing it made my day!