I don't expect that I will ever understand the hows and whys of it all. You are trying to apply rational logical thought to actions that were anything but. It's just that simple. I don't expect that I will ever be OK with what happened either. Your best course of action is just to assume you won't ever understand it and leave it at that. Seriously, if anyone was going to find the answer, I would have in the 5 billion times I mulled it over in my head. OCD is a wonderful thing!

I gotta ask why in the world are you digging up them bones? I understand the need to verify, but I think you were setting yourself up for a massive trigger by choosing to go look this info up. If you need to snoop, keep it with events that are transpiring today and not stuff that happened in the past. I know for me, I can pretty much ensure I'll have a lousy week by listening to the sexually suggestive music I associate with the A, so I avoid it like the plague. You can't avoid all triggers, but you can at least try to be pro active about it.

It's a double edged sword isn't? I hear you on the character flaws too. Again though, you and I are applying rational thought to circumstances where there was none present. For whatever reasons, our FWW's didn't see through those flaws as dumb founding as it may be.

I would suggest not letting it boil over for so long. If I'm struggling with an issue and can't resolve it on my own, I approach LaLa for support. Anger and resentment have a tendency to feed one another so it's best not to give it a chance to snowball on you.

For some it's easy, others struggle with this part for a long time. The emptiness/loss feeling can be a horrible trigger. You wind up just not feeling like yourself.

I'm by no means an expert as a few of my MB friends can attest too. I still have very big issues. Mostly concerning collateral damage to our life as a whole. I knew going into this when I chose recovery, it was going to be a difficult process. What happened to our M goes against everything I believe in. If asked what brought me the greatest feelings of love in my M the answer would have been "trust, loyalty, commitment." Since the A, I've had to redefine that a little. To be honest, in my entire life I have never forgiven anyone that has violated my trust. It's just that important to me. So I have approached recovery from the very beginning that I was going to have to rewire my brain in order to make it work. Something I knew wasn't going to happen over night.

One of the best posts I've ever read here was JL's post to you and FF using an analogy comparing recovery to leveling poles. I think it is a work in progress. When you hit a bad spot you work as a team to fix the problem until both spouses are happy with the results.

Some of the things I have used to cope with the negative feelings and anger...

I created a word document of all the wonderful things LaLa has said owning her choices and showing appreciation for me. Whenever things start to get me down I go back and reread some of it.

I've saved all the cards and letters LaLa has given me since we started R. I go back and reread these too when I'm feeling overwhelmed.

I have a couple of offline MB friends that listen to me vent(you can email me at the address in my sig). Partly because I try my best to keep the really gnarly feelings I have regarding our situation off MB because LaLa still reads here. Also, because I don't fully trust my instincts yet.

I spend time with our boys just having fun. Sometimes this helps, other times it can have the exact opposite affect.

If the stuff above isn't working and it's been more than a couple of days, I take the issue to LaLa. I think the last thing you want to do is hold things back until you work yourself into a full rage. The further down the hole you follow that rabbit the harder it becomes to crawl back out.

That's all for now. I hope some of this helps!

Want2Stay

It's good that you were able to talk with FF about the issue you were having. Just remember if you're having a problem that you need help overcoming, these conversations by nature are a LB. You need to be very careful to keep them focused on the problem using "I" statements and formulate a plan together to deal with it. In this instance, I do believe you went looking for trouble, although I understand the need. I don't think I could have dealt with not knowing what the OM looked like either.


So here is how things look from my perspective. The issues you are facing now aren't really about marital recovery but more your own personal recovery. It's the place where BSs end up when they are lucky enough to have a FWS that has taken full responsibility for their actions and the consequences that go along with it. If you take away the A would you be happy with the M you have today? I would venture a guess from the paragraph above the answer would be "yes."

Some other things I thought of that you can use to overcome your problems with anger. The A in your situation was completely out of character. You believe that was the case as I do in mine. Plus you have some added factors that also played a large roll like ALCOHOL, the setting, and the possibility of this being an early MLC of sorts. I know it's not the best consolation in the world and certainly not an excuse but use this knowledge to your advantage. Also, look for a second how things played out in your sitch. You and FF are empty nesters. FF is very successful financially. There aren't many other ties that bind in your situation. If she wanted to, she could have chose not to work on the M. She didn't do that though. She made the choice to face the mistakes she made and busted her butt to pay just compensation to save your M. In essence, she did all that for no other reason than she wants to be with YOU!!! That in itself should be a powerful weapon you use against the down times.

I think we are kind of at the same place in our recoveries. I've come up with an analogy for where we are. It's like going skydiving. You're at 10,000 feet standing at the door of the airplane holding on for dear life. All your rational thoughts tell you that the ride to the airport was more dangerous than jumping out of the plane. That you will be fine and you can TRUST that the parachute will open. Yet you are frozen in the spot you stand trying to convince yourself to let go. Much like where you are today in recovery. You stand right at the edge of completing your recovery. The thing is though, it's not about convincing yourself. It will happen all on it's own when you are ready for it. Probably when you least expect it. You can't force it to happen. I have little doubt that you will take that leap of faith and jump MyRev.

Hope some of this helps...

Want2Stay

W2S,

Thanks for responding. We're actually travelling right now ... and I'm using a "business station" at our hotel so I don't have much time to respond.

I just wanted to let you know that I read your responses to me, and you hit on a lot of very good points. I'd like to consider them in more depth and reply in full when we return home on Thursday or Friday.

Thanks again for taking the time to address these issues and give me some food for thought from the perspective of a kindred spirit ... I promise I'll pick this thread back up upon my return.

W2S,

OK, we're back home and I've got some time to delve into your observations, which were basically "spot on" ... well done and THANKS. I'll try to quote and reply to the parts that I think I need to address, but make no mistake ... your entire post(s) were very insightful and show an empathy that can only come from someone who has worn and walked in my shoes.


This was the last bit of information that I was looking for. I didn't know OM at all, and only talked to him in one very heated conversation for maybe 15 minutes.

I have to admit, I had gotten somewhat jealous of FogFree's descriptions of OM that she shared in her (snooped and discovered) emails with toxic BF during the EA portion of her A. So now I know what he looks like and no longer have any feelings of jealousy ... just confusion. I know FF's tastes, and this one was just so far outside of those parameters ... I wonder if it was just the excitement that skewed her vision? ... or, if she was just trying to "brag" to her toxic BF? ... or, if she was actually drugged (as MC theorized) and then felt a need to justify her spending the night with OM by starting an EA (the Good Girl complex as MC put it)? ... or, if she was just "ripe" to receive attention from someone else and OM was in the right place at the right time?

As time passes, I tend to believe the date rape drug theory ... but, I'm also smart enough to realize that is the easiest explanation for me to swallow, so I may be following the "path of least resistance".

Anyway, I've now seen his photos ... have dealt with the residual anger ... and feel better having this knowledge. You refer to it as "digging up bones", but from D-Day, I have always insisted on knowing EVERY bit of information as I simply refused to share FF with anyone ... I would not accept the two of them having any shared memories that I didn't know about. I am now at peace with this knowledge, and have no more need to be snooping in the past.



Duly Noted ... granted, I let this knowledge fester a few days too long. In retrospect, I should have taken a day or so to process the information and then lay out my issues to FF ... instead, I let my anger stew for almost a week before we cleared the air. It's a mistake I will learn from and not repeat.




I don't really have much to add to this, just my acknowledgment of how "spot on" we BOTH view this issue, and the difficulties it presents in overcoming how this "violated my trust".



Sound advice ... as FF reads here daily herself.

I want to emphasize that this last issue was mine alone. FF has been GREAT in doing most of the heavy lifting during R and has even reached out to me with some SIGNIFICANT "Just Compensation" that truly shows where her priorities are ... it is not something that I wish to share with the whole forum, but I may be in contact offline to share or vent as the need arises in the future.

Thanks for the invitation.



That was me, also. I touched on this earlier, but this is something I needed to do for MYSELF and FF couldn't help me ... she never had any photos of OM, and admittedly only had about a 12 hour time frame to form her memories of OM, which may have partially explained how she could "romantize" those memories to be better than the REALITY.



Again ... very insightful ... and describes our situation perfectly. This was about MY personal recovery, and ONLY affected FF because I let this knowledge fester for too long. The issues were MINE and did not reflect the quality of our R to this point.

So to answer your question ... HELL YES!!!



I must say that I'm impressed that you've taken the time to keep up with this level of detail about our situation. FF makes me FEEL everyday that she is exactly where she wants to be, and continues to have deep remorse for her actions. She just may be the model prototype for what FWW's should strive to achieve in their R'd M's.

Again, W2S ... I'm sorry for t/jing your Karma thread ... it just spoke to me that day and provided the outlet to lay out my frustrations. I'm sorry if I gave anyone the opinion that I was somehow upset with FF because of this discovery of MINE ... that was definately NOT my intent. I was just working through the residual anger from actually putting an image to the thoughts I had been carrying around. I am now at peace with that knowledge and don't feel any need for more "digging up bones".

Thank You ... my friend.

MyRev,

I just wanted to jump in for a moment and say how happy I am that you are coming to some resolutions with yours and FF's situation. I really want to see you two not only make it but thrive at a level that makes both of you very happy.

I have always thought that you two were "good folks".

God Bless,

JL

MyRev,

Glad I was able to help! Sometimes the best thing you can get during recovery is an objective opinion. Mostly because it's hard to see the forest throught the trees when you dealing with such difficult emotions. My approach has been to take things one day at a time. Focusing on the fact that the bottom line is that I CHOSE recovery because that is what I want regardless of how counter intuitive it may feel at times.


It's really no big deal. I've highlighted my personality traits on MB quite a bit. I'm one of those lucky individuals that is blessed/cursed with a memory like an elephant. I remember every detail of LaLa's A and what led us to MB as if it happened yesterday. Coupled with my OCD tendencies and our circumstances, it has made recovery VERY challenging. All it takes is a few small triggers to send me on a complete tailspin. I've gotten much better at controlling it, but it has been harder than I could have ever imagined when we began recovery.


No need to apologize MrRev. That's why we are all here isn't it? It's nice to have a place to come where people can empathize with our situations. There's just no comparison unless you've been through this disaster. Glad to see you were finally able to put the final nails in that coffin. Let them bones stay buried and focus on the M you have today. That is the greatest tool you can use to find the happiness you and FF deserve.

Want2Stay

Thanks, JL. You have been INSTRUMENTAL in helping us with our R. YOU ROCK!!!