I keep reading all these and am more confused than ever. I have familiarized myself with the MB site and it makes sense to me and I wish to employ the methods I've learned. I really need kept in check though, so please guide me as much as possible. I'll try and recap everything...here goes.

D-Day exposing WH mid Mar. of this yr. No denial, cried and talked with ea. other, felt like we both woke up. I immediately had this realization that I had done my part to "set up" the atmosphere needed for EA $ PA, of many yrs. (He still owns adultery decision) Our M was of roomate status, LB's, everyone of them, all the time. We're both strong headed and remained in a tug of war with the games we played. I, even before finding this site, immediately started changing my actions toward him, claims he stopped,though I'm not stupid he's invested more there than here. First few wks felt hopeful, we were getting along, enjoying time together, touching but no sex. I want to talk, he's not wanting to, gives typical resposes during conversation. I have a hard time waiting for him to show effort in restoring our relationship and realize he's either a.in withdrawal or more likely b.still talking with OMW. So, can I not talk about any of our or their relationship AT All, how do I just act like nothing? How far do I go in being the best I can be? Make advances or wait for his and respond nicely? He refused counseling, can I make that request at this point or drop it for a while. Also, won't expose who she is, I want to know, he's protecting her IMO, sign it's not over. Also, while I've changed my actions, I still am sad, and he sees it,...fake being happy??? I have a hard time not feeling like I'm just giving him permission to continue, I am in a way. Should I tell him what I need from him, what I'm looking for? I feel we may be too far gone, but am hopeful that if I can work on me, he'll follow suit. He hasn't sincerely apologized yet, with empathy. Does anyone reccomend writing to him, telling him how I feel, or what I expect from him? Someone help me sort this out please...past crying daily, but still constantly thinking about it. Have set a Dr.'s appt. for anti-depressants, never thought I'd go there in all my life, I guess none of us thought we'd be here.

I am so sorry that you are going through this. First, it sounds like the affair is not over. He is still protecting her so you must do some snooping. You can find out who she is. It requires a lot of digging. What do you know about the affair and the OW?

You can also read the threads on Just Found Out: For Newly Betrayed Spouses and WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses. These have detailed plans to follow that are very helpful.

All I know is the phone # of her cell/landline if she didn't change it by now,she's married and he claims he rarely saw her, and I tend to believe that since I can account for his whereabouts 99% of the time. Discovered texts back and forth, hers more committed/emotional, anything is tough to swallow. Don't feel like paying to look up #, heard they're wrong a lot anyway. Feel like calmly discussing why he won't disclose, but this goes against reccomendations of not discussing relationship or affair...eating me up though. Says he's relieved that I know. Read the suggested threads, just get confused, seems like he'd read my actions as forgiveness, permission to continue, "look, she's ok, I can keep it up, she'll forgive me again...and she's much better to live with now" is what I think he's thinking.

As long has he refuses to let you know who it is, the A is basically continuing: the OW is occupying a larger portion of his heart than you are.

If he can't bring himself to tell you, then you need to find out on your own. And then let the OWH know.

That is all I had at first too. You have to keep digging. Look for emails, receipts, anything that might give you her identity. Keep a journal and make notes everyday. Put times he calls, comes home, where you eat and go with him and look for anything that doesn't fit. Also keep a list of all the calls that he makes and the times every day. You will get a break but you must really snoop. Don't tell him anything about this. The cell phone information only costs about $5. It is not always wrong. I found OW on a business card in my husbands rolodex at work. He lied about it of course but I kept the card and continued digging until I got everything that I needed. Dig, dig, dig!

Think of him like your 12 year old son who you catch stealing. If you sit down and talk calmly, he agrees that he's learned his lesson, never again, let's just forget this ever happened, ok?

Do you believe he will never steal again? (I hope not!) Or do you think you need to set some VERY strong groundrules to PROVE to you that he isn't stealing?

Plus, if you DON'T give him consequences for the stealing, just say 'I'm disappointed in you,' what do you think will happen the next time he's in the store and doesn't have the money for that new CD he wants?

Well, all she did to me was sit down and talk to me. What a joke! I can handle those sit-downs as often as I have to. There's no reason NOT to steal!

Do you see the similarity?

You have to be MAD! You have to make him scared that you just may not be able to tolerate keeping him around, if he doesn't fess up and hand over all his passwords AND the woman's name so you can tell her husband.

If you don't do this simple thing, you are just asking him to do it again - or just keep doing this one.

Alot of times, you can just enter a land-line number in Google and it will come up with the address. There'll be a link with a MAP and a satellite view of the street/house. 411.com also has a reverse lookup directory that you can enter a landline number into if it's not unlisted.

When he refuses, and he will, turning it around like I'm a snoop, then what, out with him? I have confirmed yesterday that it is in fact continuing. No remorse, no effort, ignores my efforts, ...out with him? I'm looking up a lawyer when I'm done with this post. I know he's in a fog, but, it will just keep on with me the butt of the joke between them. Is this expected and how do you not take it personally, it is personal. He isn't open to seeing me differently. Keep trudging along like it's not happening (plan A) how the heck do you smile when you know? How do you give love and affection when you know. I feel he's made his choice.

Look. I've been around a couple years almost. I've seen a definite pattern. Those betrayed spouses who get MAD! and INDIGNANT! and say HOW DARE YOU AND WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE! are the only spouses who ever get the wayward back.

Why?

Because WSs think that they can keep their life AND carry on the affair. It has to be YOU who disabuses him of this notion.

Get MAD! Pack his bags and have them sitting on the driveway when he gets home. When he sees how serious you are, you will have that ONE opportunity to say "Here are my demands. Either you follow them and choose me, or you choose life without me."

If you do any less than that, you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of cheating, becuase he knows you're too weak to do anything about it.

I just read on another thread of a man who had 13 affairs! After the last one, some 20 years later, his wife FINALLY divorced him. Think what their lives would have been like if she would have stood up to him the first time.

Read the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A.

Plan A does not mean you are a doormat.

There are two sides to it. One side is to work on yourself and make improvements in order to draw him back to you. The other side is to make sure that the consequences of his affair hit him square in the face.

He must have both sides of the Plan - the carrot and the stick - or this does not work. It is tough love, but love is the biggest part. He needs to see you as loving him, but allowing him to fail on his own. What he owns is the affair, and you LET HIM OWN IT and the consequences it brings.

EXPOSE THE AFFAIR to everyone. If you think that you can keep this a secret to protect him, or to protect yourself from being shamed, you are wrong.

Exposure brings his behavior and the affair into the light of day - and affairs don't like that. The OW will also be easier to spot if you do this - she will be the person who shuns him or suddenly falls off the radar. The person who USED to be hanging around at work, or hanging around for lunch as a "friend", but suddenly no more! There's the OW for you. Expose to your family, his family, and tell them that he is having an affair but you do not know the name of the OW - that he is protecting her over you - and that you want to save your marriage. Tell them that you need their help and support for your marriage, that you love him, and want to work on the marriage, but his as long as another woman is present in the marriage, the marriage cannot be worked on.


Ask for their help in finding her, so that her husband can also know, so he has a chance to save THEIR marriage too - there may be children....


And everyone deserves to know the TRUTH of their own lives. You deserve that.

Expose. Plan A. And do NOT for one minute think that you are to blame for the affair - HE IS. This is not about you, but about his selfishness.

SB

Oh, and multiple d-days are not unusual.

Follow the plans. Stick to them. And focus on the thing you can control - YOU.

So, I will expose that I know he's not stayed away, pack his s**t, and lay the law down. I wasn't sure about exposing ea. time, I'd thought I'd read to keep track, and give it time to die out, so I was confused. However I did say one chance and that's it, so I have to stick to my word, so pi**ed! Also, any advice on telling child (teen)who will ultimately know as I pack it up?

That's the easy part. You tell your teen:

Dad is choosing to sleep with another woman while he is married to me. So I am choosing to move him out. It is immoral to sleep with someone else when you're married. Therefore, I can't be married to him any more, unless he makes extraordinary measures to make up for what he has done to me.

Just wanted to remind you, to give you strength:
If he dares to try to blame this on you!, you calmly say "Did I cheat?" Nothing more. Just keep repeating that. He will know he has no leg to stand on. Do NOT get dragged into some struggle for 'who's more to blame' - you are NOT to blame for his choices.

You need to stay MAD!

Thank you for your support! I need to stay mad, I do have a calm letter prepared basically stating how I'm hurt, aware it's still happening, I am done and that it's a shame what he's chosen and that I would've worked on it, had he, and he's out! Suggest giving it to him?? My emotions tend to take over when talking, so I thought that would be best to give him after I tell him I know and he's gone. Can't belive he'd do this to his kids and me, sick. This is big, so to be clear...you don't suggest plan A further? I'll note that I was doing it wrong, lots of depressing actions throwing him back to her I'm sure, with some subtle gestures, a few verbal conflicts and just beginning to show him the "lighthouse." Does the knowledge of its continuance put me at plan b automatically when I wasn't doing A right? If I do A right and watch for it to diminish, keep at A?? Just state to him that it's not acceptable on any terms (not revealing I know it is on again?), that I want all access and if he responds then continue A, or if he refuses then right to B? Sorry to be so confused I want to do the best thing to give us a chance, during A, expose knowledge of ea. encounter? that's where I'm confused. Also if B is imposed, no contact whatsoever?? How would he see the children without seeing me? I'm really not an airhead, it's just that my thoughts are jumbled.

How about peeling it back to what you ultimately want?

If you want to stay married to him, you have a better chance if he stays in the house, IMO, but only IF he stops all contact. He has to be willing to draft a No Contact letter that YOU approve and send to OW.

If you truly can't live with him, and many betrayed spouses can't, then it's your right to kick him out.

What do you want?

I want to stay together, for this to work. I love him still and will work my a** off to meet his needs, follow poja, avoid LB's etc. So I guess my plan is to lay it out, what I need for him to stay, complete honesty and access, NC verified, and commitment to rebuilding. No deal, then no stay! How much time do I give for response, 1 day, immediately, 2hrs? Should I do A correctly for a few wks to increase his chance of compliance with needs? Or is plan A futile if A still on? I thought I read it wasn't???

You might want to ask the mods to move your thread to the General Questions II section; they get a lot more people reading that, and you'll get more help.

How do I do that?

Just click on one of the mods' names below (Revera, etc.) and email them.