I'm just plain ole tired. It's so freakin' difficult to hang on day after day without wanting to blow my brains out.<P>I went & talked to a priest yesterday about an annulment. While waiting for him, I just started to cry. First time in about a week. Went into the chapel & prayed for a bit.<P>She has called about 10 times in the last three weeks. Last time she talked to me or the kids was 3 weeks ago. We haven't been home to get the call so she leaves messages. I think she is getting a bit pissed off & will blame me. I'm not gonna sit around & wait for her to call back. The kids haven't expressed an interest to call her either.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

chris,<BR>i started divorce proceedings...he's been involved with her for a little over a year.<BR>he is still 'struggling' although he is supposedly trying to break it off now. i don't think he'll be able to. she won't let him. i keep going with the divorce thing. start thinking about other things you can do without her. it does suck.<P>------------------<BR>Kellie<BR>Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough<P>

Hi Chris -<P>I'm tired too!!!!<P>What did the priest say about annulment - I'd be very interested in hearing....<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I'm not gonna sit around & wait for her to call back. The kids haven't expressed an interest to call her either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>...and you shouldn’t wait around. If you’re there, fine. I think it’s very telling that the kids don’t have any interest in calling her back. Even if she <B>does</B> come back, she’s already destroyed her relationship with her daughters. <P>You’re an awesome father, Chris. I know you what the chance to prove yourself an awesome husband too, and you will someday. With Donna or without. Concentrate on those girls, and continue to be everything you have been to them. <P>Thoughts and well wishes go out to you every day...<BR>

Chris, you have shown such patience and loyalty. Of course you're tired. You've had all the responsibilities on top of emotional turmoil. Your wife is such a fool.

Kellie, I'm doing fine living without her & getting on with it. It's just the hurt that she bolted.<P>Sheba, It's pretty straight forward. Once a divorce is complete, you apply for an annulment. The annulment is the religous dissolution of the marriage. Need to write about the marriage. Get some witnesses to answer some questions as to what shape the relationship is/was in. The more info, the better. Then it goes to a tribunal. Three people review it. Some high up priests & such. It's just like a trial. Then if it is approved, it has to go for a review by another panel. As I see it, no one Iwe know could actually say we had ANY problems in the relationship.<P>I'm not actually catholic but I was baptised catholic, so an annulment wouldn't actually do much for me unless I wanted to get married in the catholic church again. But I would have the satisfaction of knowing the church agreed with me about how the relationship ended.<P>It's best to get on it as soon as the divorce is final. The priest told me many people come up and ask for an annulment because they want to get married in a few months and they have been divorced for 10 years. It takes about a year for it to go through. And if it is not granted and you have to resubmit it, then it will take even longer. They tell you to not even set a date until it comes back.<P>whodat, She has told the kids repeatedly they can call and write letters if they want. They show no interest in doing either. She even sent them both phone cards. I don't particularly want them to call her because it is his cell phone. I don't want them to even hear his voice & I don't want to either. Me & the kids don't know him or have ever met him. I did hear his voice on the answering service before she left while I was "investigating" the affair and she said it was over (yeah, right).<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

Chris:<P>Boy do I know how you feel. It has been going on a long time.<P>I think what you're doing is completely correct. You shouldn't enable her by making the kids call or write. The situation is her fault, even if she does blame you.<P>She must be doing alot of denial/blocking to be able to do this to the kids for this long. The only explanation I can think of is the affair must be so consuming that her brain can't really think about anything else. I still can't see how that could last, but I wouldn't have thought she could go this long either.<P>I know it's small consolation, but with her behaving this way, you know it's not about you at all. She's just so absorbed in herself. I still believe at some point, who can say when, she's going to crash very, very hard. She may not have anyone to turn to then, after the destruction she's made to all her personal relationships.<P>I know you're sad, but you're also quite strong. You can take great pride in what you have accomplished for your daughters. You're a good man.

Thanks for the information, Chris!!<P>He didn't happen to touch upon cost, did he? I have heard that it can cost anywhere from $200. to $800. .......<P>Did he say where you get the paperwork?<BR>At the church or the Diocese or ?<P>I'd ask my priest, but he's in Brazil - he grew up with my Dad and was his best friend.....married me and H!!!!<P>My Mom's writing and telling him about me and H.....this is going to be so upsetting!!!! UGH!!!<P>Anyhoo - if you know.....let me know OK?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Hi Chris,<P>My wife got an annulment from her first husband (a drunk... drug addicted... porn thristy guy). Based on those "conditions" it really wasn't that hard to get one. I spent literally 4-5 months helping her with it too! She knew that it was what I wanted before I married her... and I thought that's what she wanted for herself too.<P>Now..<BR>I know I can't get an annulment myself. My wife said to me many times (even after discovery... days after "Easter Sunday" when she told me she wanted a separation!) that...<BR>our marriage is a "sacramental marriage!"<P>I imagine she is right because I married her "in sickness and in health"... what she is doing now is such a very bad "sickness."<P>I thought she married me "in sickness and in health" too... the only complaint on he divorce filing was that... I didn't take care of my adult diabetes (found out about diabetes 3 years ago!)<P>If you want more information on the annulment process let me know... I know of a good (although) a little dated book on the topic. Without knowing the details of your lives (that includes very importantly times <B>before</B> you were married) I don't know how much success you may have.<P>I'll pray for you though.<P>Jim<P>---------<BR>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...

They ask for $450 which is half the actual cost. But they will NEVER deny you because of cost.<P>Start with your priest. You could go to the church and get it from there if the priest is not around. Also, you can't do much except get your ducks lined up until a divorce is final.

NSR,<P>Why can't you get an annulment? The other party doesn't have to agree to it.

Chris - you have the strength of Sampson to put up with what you have for the past 8(?) months. You and I are in very similar situations - W left us/living with OM/fantasy still very much alive and kicking. However, my W filed for divorce at end of August...about 2 months into the affair. I was devastated (again) by this action because I was prepared to do what you have been doing - eating sh1t for months on end.<P>I prayed for strenght from God to get me through this. Finally, about a month or so ago, I received strength. One day (or so it seemed) I woke up and the pain was dramatically less than it was before. That's when I knew I was going to be OK. In fact, now I WANT the divorce. (That's why I haven't been posting here on the marriage BUILDERS site - where is the marriage ENDERS site?)<P>Chris - there really does come a time when you must call it quits. I figure I did all I could to salvage the marriage - I waited in SHEER AGONY for over four months while W was going to Europe with rich OM. I finally said enough is enough. I'm ready to move on with my life. You have waited at least twice as long as I - how you did it is beyond me.<P>I know that I will live out my days with a clear conscious regarding my marriage and divorce. I will hold my head high and be able to explain to any woman who I may date what happened. I will be telling the truth when I say that I loved her with all my heart, I was willing to walk through fire for her and had endured the most unimaginable pain there is. I know that someday some woman will be proud to be with me.<P>I will continue to pray for my W's soul for I know that she knows not shat she is doing.<P>Chris - there is no shame in wanting to get on with your life. Most of the women on this forum (and in the general population for that matter)would be proud to have such a loving, devoted and good man as you for their very own.<P>God bless you Chris.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

(((hugs))) for you and the girls.

Chris:<P>Too bad the kids can’t send back the phone cards with a “we have no urge to call you; I suppose we’ll just talk to you whenever you call... if we’re home, or not too busy.” I cannot believe sometime what she is doing. Make <B>sure</B> she knows this is your <B>daughter’s</B> choice, and that you are in no way preventing them from talking to her... that they simply don’t want to.<P>I agree with Distressed... when she crashes, it’s gonna be harder than ANYONE can believe... especially if there’s no one there to pick up the pieces. Why on earth would anyone <B>want</B> to have anything to do with her after all this? I know... because you still love her... You’re a good man.<P>Shattered:<P>Even if things end for you and your W, don’t forget to keep us updated on your progress through life every once in a while. And most importantly... although it is <B>incredibly</B> premature, use what you have learned on this site to make your future relationships(even if by some miracle it is with your W) all it possibly can be.<P>On a personal note... I’d like to thank you for turning Minnesota from “the place where my OW lives” to “the place where my thoughts go to Shattered1.” When I think of that place(or see the weather, or any of my other former OW triggers), I now wonder how YOU are doing. Thanks for that. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited October 20, 1999).]

whodat,<BR>Funny you should mention remembering because of the weather. The last few days I have been thinking about it. It was snowy & cold last Christmas (d-day) here & it is now. Also, I just heard the song "Torn" by Natalie Imbruglia <A HREF="http://www.groovin.org/Olga/main/i/imbruglia_natalie/torn.crd" TARGET=_blank>http://www.groovin.org/Olga/main/i/imbruglia_natalie/torn.crd</A> . My Wife got that CD for Christmas from her girlfriend who used to hang out with "them". She told me that song is how exactly she felt about us. Just heard it on the radio. Now I have that feeling again. Sorta like when you have turkey & remember the times when you were a kid at Grandma's for Thanksgiving.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

Chris:<P>Yeah, it’s amazing all the triggers we have. I realize I’m on the <B>complete</B> other end of the spectrum from this than you are, but I still had them. Many of the triggers were allayed as the withdrawal faded, because as it did, other (far better) memories replaced those I associated with her due to the songs/food/cars/ the moon etc. But the one thing I could never get over was the weather in Minnesota. I mean, on the National weather on CNN, Minnesota is just <B>right there</B> in the middle, and I’m... not. Even though I was down to maybe 1 in 30 times seeing the weather map and thinking about her instead of nothing, it still hadn’t been replaced by something else, like with every other trigger. At least until last night, when I wondered what Shattered was up to. <P>Also, the weather in Minnesota is like on a different freaking planet. It’s gonna be near 100 here today. I’m just glad I never went there, and to tell the truth (yeah TnT... I know you’re there too ), I never want to, either. (nothing personal, Shattered. )<P><BR>------------------<BR>No marriage was ever healed by the judicious application of hatred.<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited October 20, 1999).]

Chris:<P>I don't know how you've held on as long as you have.<P>No one can say you didn't try.<P>Please stick around...you are the "Plan B" poster boy (a dubious distinction, I know).<P>You know...there are an awful lot of divorces going on among boardies here. Think any of them will ever get together?

WhoDat - Well Minnesota's weather is only for those tough enough to take it!! Actually, I used to bit*h a lot about the weather here. Lately, I've actually gotten used to it. Today, for example, it made it up to 40 degrees! There are two seasons here - winter and bad sledding.<P>I lurk here quite a bit actually...I need to keep up with you guys! I'll keep you posted with any significant news.<P>I have learned an incredible amount about myself...my next relationship will be very different.<P>I'm glad you think of MN as the place where you think of me instead of your OW.<P>Take care.

Chris<BR>You and I have so many similar one-year memories. They stink no matter where you are. This has got to be sooooo hard for you.<BR>Now I'm putting on my mother hat... When was the last time you did something for YOU? When was the last time you bought something for YOU? <BR>I hate shopping but since Xmas I have gone out and bought more for me than I did in 19 years total. Still not much but it's part of finding yourself. <BR>You are a great guy. Do something good for yourself OK? <BR>I'll bet your girls would love to spoil you if you let them know you needed it. It would make them feel like they are doing something. They probably just need to be asked. If you are too strong it's not easy for them to take care of you. Girls like to do that you know.<BR>I know I just have boys but..... I was a girl once you know

Chris,<P>For me to get an annulment is very, very difficult. The annulment process is basically one that looks for faults in the establishment of the relationship, prior to marriage itself.<P>Clearly my state of mind was quite good. I was sensible, very faithful to my Catholic heritage, followed all the teachings of the church...belonged to the Noly Name Society, Nocturnal Adoration Society... hey... my wife (about 5 years ago) even got me to teach CCD at our parish. I'm now doing 8th grade confirmation class!<P>My wife's state of mind might be called into question (since the previous marriage annulment was completed about 4 months before our marriage). But... since we married... to <B>everyone</B>, we were the ideal Catholic couple. To me... we were the ideal Catholic couple. (one kink... we went to "marriage encounter weekend"... she gave up on the "dialoging" after only 2 months!)<P>While the annulment is not just for me... or my spouse... it is more a statement of the validity of the marriage, immediatedly before and up to consumation. It is not about how good/bad I am now, or how good/bad my wife is now... or anything about <B>now</B>.<P>The only thing that "<B>now</B>" has in terms of relevance to an annulment... is to show that there was an underlying "fault" at the time of the marriage (or just before) that was a seed to whatever is happening now!<P>You just can't say... "oh yes... that seed was obviously there because of what is there <B>now</B>." You've got to articulate it and get witnesses.<P>While, for anyone, to get an annulment doesn't require the consent of the spouse... if I don't get that consent... it becomes much harder. And since my wife was so involved in church activities... school activities, any and all of her (and my witnesses) will not be able to say that they saw any faults! This is equally true of our relationship (and the witnesses) of(and just before) the time of our marriage!<P>Plus... she's already said that our marriage is fully "sacramental" (no faults)... since she knows the annulment process so well...<BR>to hurt me she will inform the tribunal of this...<P>Sooooooo... I won't be able to get an annulment. <P>I always thought that one day I might become a Catholic deacon... that too is now shot! <P>When I go home today I will get the title of the book I have on the annulment process...<BR>I also have a little pamphlet on "adultery/remarriage/annulments" from a Catholic prospective. If you want I can photocopy (yes this is a sin) the booklet and send it to you if you like. I don't think it has an ISBN number.<P>Jim<P>-----------------<P>I can dare myself... I'll put a pebble in my shoe...<BR>I can walk... I can walk! I shall call the pebble Dare...<BR>Dare shall be carried... And when we both have had enough<BR>I will take him from my shoe, singing... "Meet your new road!"...<BR>Finally glad... Finally glad... That you are here... By my side...<P><p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited October 20, 1999).]