|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,128
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,128 |
Pio is fine. Nope, that's not the very worst thing. It's more likely going to be a just part of a list of very bad things that can happen if my life takes that turn. You're right. You could eat Raccoon feces and go blind. Health department spokeswoman Sally Slavinski says parents should supervise children to keep them from eating raccoon feces. Droppings should be picked up using gloves and disposable bags and put in the trash. Thank God for Sally's quick advice. I have always let my kids just go ahead and eat it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
Nope, that's not the very worst thing. It's more likely going to be a just part of a list of very bad things that can happen if my life takes that turn. You're right. You could eat Raccoon feces and go blind. LOL - I was thinking of being forced to have to go live with my parents because I couldn't afford a separate home after the D .
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,931
Member
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,931 |
So are you thinking that she will commit adultery again? I think if the right opportunity came along, it may happen again. She tells me know that knows how to "protect her boundaries" and avoid those types of situations that could lead to As, but I think I'm looking for a bit more than that to really trust what she's saying. It's pretty hard to fall in love when this is gnawing at your heels. MiM, I only really know of you from following the 'JFO' forum. Reading your post I could feel how sad and lonely you are. I'm sorry for that. I agree with the MB online program, as Mrs. W suggested. It puts the whole plan into much more perspective. It made my H and I more enthused about the principles and the fact that a great M can unfold even after adultery. It sounds too that your W needs more EP's to make you feel safe.
M'd 22 years BW-me D-Day 08/08 LTA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 439
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 439 |
I think if the right opportunity came along, it may happen again. She tells me know that knows how to "protect her boundaries" and avoid those types of situations that could lead to As, but I think I'm looking for a bit more than that to really trust what she's saying. Do you know what is the bit more you are looking for ? What is preventing you from demanding it ? What is preventing her from giving it ?
FBW(me)- 45 FWH- 53 D-day 4/29/08 Moving forward pursuing happiness & a loving Marriage with DH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,249
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,249 |
The more difficult ones . Seriously, there are a few bad habits that sometimes show up every now and then, but I think I've managed to get rid of most of them. I tend to feel at times though that she's raising the bar on me, while the bar for the OM was lowered considerably. Maybe that is a good sign. Raising the bar could indicate that she wants a better marriage and is no longer interested in settling as she did when she was with OM. I think that it is better to raise the bar and ask for what you want than to go elsewhere to get your needs met. I don't usually feel as bad as I did when I made that post, and I certainly don't feel bad as I did on DD. I think I might just be having difficulty with the "acceptance" part of forgiveness, and these types of anniversaries just tend to aggravate the situation. I usually feel the best on Sundays after we have spent the weekend together. Are you doing better today?
Over it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,249
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,249 |
I think if the right wrong opportunity came along, it may happen again. She tells me know that knows how to "protect her boundaries" and avoid those types of situations that could lead to As, but I think I'm looking for a bit more than that to really trust what she's saying. What would it take to feel safe again? Are you looking for a way out of the marriage? Sometimes, yes, when I'm feeling really low. Generally, no. It seems that once I'm away from her, and I start thinking about what I've been through, it seems the only solution is to walk away. But, as soon as I return home, and I'm in her company, those feelings tend to dissipate. For those of us that have our spouses home trying to recover the marriage, don't we all feel like that? Did anyone here ever think that they would stay after an affair? I know that I didn't. We had always told each other that if either of us ever cheated, just go ahead and leave because the marriage would be over. Our minds know that adultery is the ultimate betrayal. It is hard to imagine being able to get over it. Some do. Some don't. I am still in love with my husband. I think you are in love with your wife. I want to be one of the ones that gets over it. I also want to make sure this never happens again. Who wouldn't be scared after experiencing this kind of pain? If you had been brutally attacked walking down a dark alley, would it be unreasonable that you would be apprehensive walking down dark alleys in the future? Wouldn't you feel better with some extra protection? Would you even walk the dark alley without protection ever again? Why is this different?
Last edited by stillstanding2; 05/04/09 09:25 AM.
Over it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964 |
MiM,
What is telling about your posts is that you have about 10 times as many as your wife, I'm not sure what the ratio means.
You also wrote. she says she only had sex with OM1 twice, even though she previously told me on that very first DD that it was more than five times. Of course, when she then told me the last time we
Could have been three times the first meeting and two time the second time. As her memory fades it is only the larger details she remembers. Some of the more painful thing my wife did to me she has no recollection of at all.
NJ
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 498
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 498 |
Did you guys do the Marital Recovery Agreement in the back of SAA? Maybe you could revisit it...
Me: 32 BS DDay: 9/14/08 Slowly coming to the realization that I am one of those who can't get past it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
Do you know what is the bit more you are looking for ? Some sign from her that our history is NOT going to be adamantly rewritten again to "excuse" her choice to have an A. I don't want to be faced with another "Twilight Zone" episode years down the road of recovery, where she adamantly denies that certain things didn't happen (which did) and vigorously states that certain things did happen (which didn't). She's already started doing that, by negating what I write in my journal as being my perception only, and not necessarily what's actually happening now. Yeah, like her telling me that they boinked in our bedroom for the first time can be construed as "my perception only". I need something, anything that shows that she is more concerned about restoring our M than she is about the details of the A being made public - because that's exactly what is preventing her from actively seeking the professional help that I think she needs to find out why she made those horrible choices with apparently very little guilt involved, and how she can protect me from making those choices again. What is preventing you from demanding it ? If I have to actually demand that my FWW do these things, four years after DD, then to me that's a good sign that perhaps our M was not meant to be. What is preventing her from giving it? I would say Privacy and Pride would be the biggest contributing factors.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
Raising the bar could indicate that she wants a better marriage and is no longer interested in settling as she did when she was with OM. Could be. Or it could be that she simply wants more. I think that it is better to raise the bar and ask for what you want than to go elsewhere to get your needs met. Well, she was "raising the bar" on me while involved with the OM as well. I usually feel the best on Sundays after we have spent the weekend together. Are you doing better today? Interestingly enough, this Sunday was one of our better Sundays. Usually she feels worse about me on Sundays, typically because she feels I'm not contributing enough around the home.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
What would it take to feel safe again? A big red RESET button . Seriously, I'm not sure at this point. I do know that if I see a definite willingness on her part to do whatever it takes to recover our M, then that might work. However, I'm not seeing that. I do get quite a bit of lip-service at times, particularly when I make suggestions, but no follow through. I no longer make suggestions. Are you looking for a way out of the marriage? At times, I have examined my options, yes. I'm not driven to D though. What I have now is better then D.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
MiM,
What is telling about your posts is that you have about 10 times as many as your wife, I'm not sure what the ratio means. Trying to reason with my FWW "Tangled" is sometimes a bit like trying to dance with a bramble-bush, with about as successful an outcome as expected in that circumstance. She says one thing and means something else, and her answers can come across as evasive many times. Some of the regulars started asking some more difficult questions, and a few started to get on her case. So she gathered up her marbles and left. She now frowns upon me spending time here in her own way (e.g. if she sees me on, she'll remind me of something she asked me to do, but I haven't done yet - but I'll receive no such reminders from her if I'm doing something else on the computer).
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
Did you guys do the Marital Recovery Agreement in the back of SAA? Maybe you could revisit it... I think we did it (was some time ago and my memory's failing me), but I'll revisit.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 439
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 439 |
I need something, anything that shows that she is more concerned about restoring our M than she is about the details of the A being made public - because that's exactly what is preventing her from actively seeking the professional help that I think she needs to find out why she made those horrible choices with apparently very little guilt involved, and how she can protect me from making those choices again. It seems to me that 4 years ie time alone cannot fix problems and help you reach a R. Time perhaps minimises the intensity of the initial pain but there does nothing to help the M. All the MB steps need to be done and no matter how far you are out from D day. If exposure is whats needed in order to get the ball moving then IMHO you are hindering your own progress by enabling her to continue to ignore the traits and behaviour and not seek any help in changing them. If I have to actually demand that my FWW do these things, four years after DD, then to me that's a good sign that perhaps our M was not meant to be. IMHO its sign that your FWW is perhaps not clear on how big a roadblock this is to your recovery and may be is under the impression that things are going better than they are. I would say Privacy and Pride would be the biggest contributing factors. Sorry if I sound harsh but those are her issues and not yours. Its pretty clear from your posts that inspite of the good that you have acheived in this R there is some basic fundamental healing still remaining. From a female perspectie I see you playing the male role of trying to "HELP FIX and DEFEND" the one you love which is admirable and yet it comes at the cost of fixing your R. One of the things that I take away from my own stich is its better to speak up about what hurts and let my H know so then he has the option of doing something about it. And from personal experince I can tell you that so many times he is not even aware of how a big that issue has been to me and was not even on his radar. Of course it helps even more that he is willing to respond and work out and acceptable solution If in your mind been there, done that and nothing is forthcoming then I am sorry you find yorself at this point and I feel your pain.
FBW(me)- 45 FWH- 53 D-day 4/29/08 Moving forward pursuing happiness & a loving Marriage with DH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,965
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,965 |
If I have to actually demand that my FWW do these things, four years after DD, then to me that's a good sign that perhaps our M was not meant to be. Well, first of all, you'd be making a request, not a demand. Demands are LBs Secondly, it is your responsibility to spell out exactly what you need. It's unfair to expect your wife to read your mind or pick up on hints or patterns in tea leaves. If you've told her before, tell her again. The thing is, if you're as unhappy as you seem, then chances are very high she's unhappy as well. Why waste more years of your life in an unhappy marriage? You both can do better. Someone has to start the ball rolling and it may as well be you. You're afraid of her being in another affair. I think you're BOTH at risk, allowing things to totter along in the current state. I think I read that you're staying with her until the kids graduate. What are you teaching them about what is acceptable in a marriage? Do you think you're really sparing them any grief by waiting? I had a girlfriend whose parents D'd her freshman year at college. She was a total wreck. She was coping with college, and being away from home, and on her own... and her parents splitting up. Lots of folks stay together "until the kids are grown" but having seen her go through that I think honesty during the high school years might have been better.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,249
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,249 |
Could be. Or it could be that she simply wants more. Okay, if she wants more, what does she want? Can you give it to her if meeting that need will help her fall back in love with you? Well, she was "raising the bar" on me while involved with the OM as well. Well that just sucks! Interestingly enough, this Sunday was one of our better Sundays. Usually she feels worse about me on Sundays, typically because she feels I'm not contributing enough around the home. Glad you had a good day. Sounds like you know what she needs around the house.
Over it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,235
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,235 |
It sounds like your wife is troubled and the problems are not just her affair.
She seems unstable She seems manipulative She seems closed emotionally She seems untrustworthy in words and actions She seems controlling She seems cold She seems, frankly, scary She seems to have a cold hard personality She seems irrational at times She seems to dislike you She seems quite selfish She seems almost abusive in ways.
I would divorce her for these reasons. You are right in thinking you cannot trust this selfish and cold woman. Look at her character and actions and words. Would you tell your son to ever marry a woman like her? I doubt it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
Well, first of all, you'd be making a request, not a demand. Demands are LBs Well, selfish ones are In any case, I generally try to stay away from making demands, lest they be interpeted as selfish demands. And when I do make demands, it's usually to do with a personal boundary of mine. Secondly, it is your responsibility to spell out exactly what you need. It's unfair to expect your wife to read your mind or pick up on hints or patterns in tea leaves. If you've told her before, tell her again. Oh, I agree. It's just that sometimes I'm not *exactly* sure of what I need to see. If I'm to put a finger on it, I think what I'm looking for is initiative on her part, something that definitively demonstrates her interest in holding on to our M with both hands and doing whatever's necessary to make it work. The thing is, if you're as unhappy as you seem, then chances are very high she's unhappy as well. Why waste more years of your life in an unhappy marriage? You both can do better. Someone has to start the ball rolling and it may as well be you. LOL, Turtlehead, I've been rolling this ball for the past four years . Really, I'm not UNHAPPY. We've good days as well as bad days. It's just that when I've got some time to reflect on what's happened and what's happening, it all seems a bit overwhelming. You're afraid of her being in another affair. I think you're BOTH at risk, allowing things to totter along in the current state. I'm not afraid. I know exactly what to do if I ever discover another A. Immediate nuclear exposure and filing for D on the basis of adultery, and basically going for everything I can get. Yes, we can still do that here. I think I read that you're staying with her until the kids graduate. That's not quite true. The kids graduating is sort of a milestone, at which time I intend to seriously reflect on our M and decide whether or not its worthwhile continuing. At the moment, apart from the children, we don't seem to have that much in common, so if we're not that happy while the children are around, we're probably going to be even less so when they're gone. In the interim however, I'm not going to stop trying to make things better between us.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
Only when she loses her temper. Otherwise she's the picture of practicality. She might be, but certainly not on the scale of some of the WWs that have passed through or been mentioned here. She seems closed emotionally Closed to me, yes. She seems untrustworthy in words and actions This is one I've got trouble with. She only slipped up once, ONCE, during her 2-year long A, otherwise she comes across as very dependable and trustworthy... until you delve a bit deeper and find out the reasons behind some of her actions. When I think that she managed to invite the OM up for sex only a few days after we did that ring ceremony, then act as if nothing had happened when I returned home a few hours later, I realise that I'm dealing with someone who can easily hide the truth from me if she really wanted to, and I can't help but feel very concerned about that. A bit . She seems cold She seems, frankly, scary She seems to have a cold hard personality She seems irrational at times None of those really describe my FWW. Well, except for the irrational part. But doesn't that describe most women? (GD&R!) She seems to dislike you She seems quite selfish She seems almost abusive in ways. It does seem like she dislikes me at times. At this point in our recovery, I wouldn't describe her as selfish. Just a bit more self-centered than she used to be prior to the A. But she still finds time for the kids (mostly) and me.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 945
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 945 |
MiM, Reading your thread I do you feel your WW is manipulative (and has been all along). I agree with PIO about the fear thing. One thing I committed to as the BS was not to hold back - to put my all into the M and R. If you are in a state of fear of the future based on the past then you are really not in the present. Should your WW do something stupid again, how do you want to walk away? Do you want to walk away knowing that you held back in the M and R?
GG
GG
D-Day #1 Aug/2007. D-Day #2 1/27/12 Legally Separated
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
0 members (),
432
guests, and
66
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|