Does anyone else have this as an EN?

It took me a while to figure out that showing Loyalty is my #1 EN.

Steve Harley told me that "loyalty" is a combination of meeting ENs and avoiding LBers. Makes sense...I guess.

The trouble is, after the decimation of an A, how does a FWS go about showing "loyalty"?

Because to me, it's sort of like your virginity...once it's gone, it's gone...there is no "getting it back". Sure, you can vow to be a "born-again virgin" but we all know that is far from the real thing.

Just wondering if there is anyone else out there who has this as an EN. I've never heard this talked about before and wonder if I am the only freak out here.

Yes, i came to this realization as well. Except i was thinking Fidelity. Sort of like attractiveness can be a need...Loyalty/fidelity i think is also one.

it could also be committment

Yes to all the above!!!!

If you are a freak...I'm one too.

I'd say that loyalty is my #1 EN as well. All the other ENs stem from it if you really think about it.

Another Thread

This is along the same lines...but it started out as a "tainted marriage". Aphelion starts it, Krazy seconds it.

Nah....you're not alone. I define it as trust, loyalty and commitment. I struggled to complete the EN questionnaire because these things ranked higher for me than any of the other ENs. You're right though in that where do you go when your #1 EN is lost to some degree? I have tried to make it a present tense thing in that LaLa is being trustworthy today. It's still not the same as the trust, loyalty and commitment that I perceived over the 10 years before the A. I believe as time passes, this will fade along with the other feelings of being betrayed. Just another unintended consequence.

Want2Stay

By being O&H and taking their spouse into consideration. Because the spouse was once wayward, I think the FWS needs to exhibit extraordinary care for the BS. A FWS can't go back but going forward can show loyalty by doing whatever is humanly possible to make their spouse feel safe and doing right by them even if that means the FWS has to suffer consequences (i.e. embarrassment, loss of friends/income). If H ever displays unloyal behavior to me in a BIG way (doesn't have to be cheating), I'd be divorced.

Well, the thing for me is this...my FWH is showing incredibly loyalty NOW. I just don't trust that it will STAY that way, his track record isn't so good.

We've been in recovery for 2 years now, and just 5 months ago I found that, once again, he was exhibiting VERY weak boundaries and being anything BUT loyal to me.

My withdrawal from him seems to have kicked him back into high gear...well, that's all great and dandy NOW, but when the dust settles and I am able to start meeting his ENs again, will the entitlement and less-than-loyalness come back?

His 100% undying loyalty to me is what drew me to him in the first place...he would have gotten the moon for me if I had asked and I always KNEW beyond the shadow of a doubt that he was completely loyal to ME. I was THAT important to him; he told me often and showed me with his actions.

We are doing phone counseling with Kathleen from MB. Actually, FWH was counseling with her for quite a while before I started.

She has told me a few times that from talking to FWH it is "completely obvious that he ADORES you!". And he does seem to be doing a good job of showing that.

So why am I still withdrawn? How does one go about SHOWING loyalty???

MF i so agree with you.

I thought that my H would ALWAYS be loyal to me and when the chips were down he turned to someone else.

And like you said even though he is being loyal right at this moment who knows if that loyalty will remain or if he will turn to someone else again.

I think once they do it once it may be easier a second time. I could be wrong since i am not a WS but it seems that way.

And also like you said how can you show loyalty obviously their past actions did not show it at all.

I am afraid that because of it i can just never really get over my H's A.

I understand MF. NOW the FWS spouse is being "good" but what about a year from now or 5 yrs from now? We all have a tendency to relax our boundaries when things are going relatively well so it is up to us to kick ourselves in the butt along with our spouses when we start getting lazy.

You being withdrawn is probably just a low in the rollercoaster and your mind still trying to believe the unbelievable. It sucks because the person you expected the most loyalty from is the one who let you down. Disappointment would be an understatement.

Yeah, and I told Kathleen yesterday what worries me is that ALL it takes is some desperate, trampy woman to pretend to have the same interests as he does and WHAM...all loyalty to me is out the window.

So what is he doing differently to restore this loyalty and restore "Romantic Love"??

What's different this time??

Well that's the thing, tst...he is doing a lot of things to show that he loves and cares about me...he is transparent, he calls, emails and texts me all day long...he tells me he loves me and we do a lot of RC together.

We just bought a new house and are excited about fixing it up together and making it "ours". He is VERY affectionate, he compliments me all the time.

But none of this shows "loyalty" to me...it shows that he is very attracted to me and that he loves doing things with me.

How does a FWS show their BS that they are 100% LOYAL to them and will be, forever and ever??? The things I listed above that he is doing do not necessarily tell me he is, once again, going to remain loyal to me.

MF,

I agree. Once the loyalty is lost it can't come back. I also felt my FWH was loyal to ME and me alone. I trusted all my personal history with him and felt comfortable doing it. He was the ONLY ONE I shared this stuff with. But guess what? He told OW about some of this stuff. UUUGGGH!! No matter how sorry he is or how hard he works on this M, she will always know.

Can't get it back. And if I think about THAT too long, anger will rear its ugly head. So...nuf said. Loyalty was huge for me. Didn't trust alot of people. Now...well...it's tougher.

I think that loyalty can also fall under the term extraordinary care and protection. It is the combination of trying to meet the needs of the spouse without being the cause of pain. Betraying trust through dishonesty, independent behaviors (adultery), poor friendships (OW/OM) are all lovebusters.

You know what Michele? One of my greatest regrets from the affair is what you just described...Things that I told that sounded bad about Mr. W, that really were NOT bad between the two of us...Only sounded that way through the dirty, lying, exaggerating lips of an active adulterer (me...ugh)...I'd give the world to take that stuff back...to set the record straight...It really digs at me and kills me that I did that...I bet your husband feels that way as well...Yours too, MF...I know it doesn't make up for it or change it, but perhaps just knowing that they HATE that they did that might help soothe some of the sting...dunno...

Also, I gotta tell you guys that it just perplexes the crap outta me that I had an affair in the first place...I can't begin to describe to you how fiercely loyal that I had always been...that I am now...Say and do what you will about me, and I can take that, but about Mr. W or our dd or my mom or my friends and that really sets me afire...totally my achilles heel...

Mrs. W

Loyalty is very important to me too, MF. For example, my H told someone sleazebo on the internet years ago that he wasn't "head over heels in love, can't live without you" about me. He told some internet chick this ABOUT ME. ABOUT ME.

I still get infuriated when I think about it. I explained to him that wasn't going to work for me and I wasn't going to settle for those crumbs. Nor should he waste his time with someone he felt that way about. I don't know which made me madder, the fact he lied to me about his feelings or that he told some skank on the internet something like that about me.

Needless to say, the bar was raised significantly after that when he realized that was not going to keep me in a marriage. He had to work a hell of alot harder after that.

It just amazes me that my marriage was once so bad and how far it has come. The mistake of the century somehow did an 180 with the help of God, I suppose.

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That's probably a common fear which hopefully lessens the more time that passes and if your FWS exhibits consistent behavior. I pray that I don't have the same worries and fears years from now that I have today. I don't plan on being H's mother or his keeper for life. For me, I needed to see immense changes in H to try R.