Speaking of black and white I have a question that has been bothering me for the last couple of days.

If I recall correctly, under similar marital circumstances (waiting for D process to complete with no expectation of reconciliation), SMB did a lot more than have coffee with someone. Yet it seems to me that while ZW is catching flak for going on a few dates, SMB largely got a pass from the boards.

I'm not Vladie and I don't have an axe to grind. I'm just wondering at what I see as different treatment.

BB, believe me, she did not get a pass. She still has my Texas boot print in her hind end. And if I had known Zen did that, I would have given HIM the same treatment.

Hi Zen,

Just catching up on you today. Hope today was better than yeaterday. I really liked MyRev's recollection of JL's post to you.

None of us, no not one, is perfect. You sought advice for some new questions re:dating and you were given the best advice people could give you and the consensus seems to be you shouldn't for awhile and I agree with that.

I don't see that it does any good though when someone says they made a mistake, owns up to it, admits it was wrong and then gets a bunch of, "see i told you so's, you should've seen it coming, you are just as bad as..."

Now, onwards.

I hope this gives you a little hope because as I told you early on I was married to your east coast version.

I thought about posting a new thread on saturday to give some hope to BS's out there and maybe I still will.

I am happier now than I have been in such a long time and it has come from letting my WW go, in my mind and heart. I reached a point thru time where I simply don't care anymore. I see my self-worth, have self-respect, and no longer blame or question myself.

There were a lot of things that had to happen, steps, stages, but my point is it will happen for you. A great guy named AB3 (for abandoned with 3 kids) used to post to me telling me to give it time and to be strong and this would happen. He was so right!

I no longer worry about my WW, her whereabouts, who she is sleeping with if anyone, what she does, her intentions for her life, anything. I am making provisions for my kids and me and that is it.

It is sad to see her spiral into depair, depression and loneliness and to see the consequences of her actions and how they have caught up to her, she is stunned at my strength and my ability not to be dragged into a fight or engage with her on any matter but the kids, and is flattened by her inability to manipulate me. She is now pulling out all the stops thru family friends etc. to pull me back in. Not gonna happen.

I realized for real finally that I can't control her. I can't rescue her. I can't make her do one thing vs. another. I am free and have been released.

I really hope you get there in a shorter time than it took me, but I am confident it will come.

SWW

I know this is stupid. We've been in an email war spanning two days now. Here's my final note before I go on official ignore.

You treated me worse than my stepfather ever did on his worst days. How is that putting your kids first? To so callously hurt their father and then leave him at home to take care of them?

I don't trust your judgment on OM. You had an affair with him. He is garbage to me. This is how the world works. You'd be the EXACT same way in my shoes, except a thousand times more venomous. Can you imagine if I was forking some random woman I met at a show 4 years ago and I wanted to bring her into Daughter's life? Imagine if OM was forking some random woman he met at a bar. I'm sure he'd just lie about it and you'd believe him. Just like I believed you.

Whenever you think I'm being unreasonable, just do this exercise:

Pretend you were deeply committed and in love with somebody. Maybe how you felt after our wedding if you haven't rationalized all that away. A couple months later I tell you our marriage is over. Then someone else tells you I've been forking another woman for the last two months. I met her at Bar. You realize your love means too much to give up so you tell me you'll forgive me if I come back. And I do. But then I bounce back and forth weekly. Then you are so horribly beat up by this, you give up. You have no other choice. When you tell me that, I beg you to take me back. Then it happens again. And again. And again for 3 months. Then you find out that I've never stopped forking her, I was planning to marry her. During this time you are distraught. Barely able to function, but you're the parent who has to keep it together, even when you know at this very moment, I'm forking another woman after telling you I was at a business function. To make matters worse, when you are crying in front of me, and upset, I hit you, or yell at you or tell you I hate you, then storm out to be with her again. Finally you come to realize that all your effort was for nothing, other than to help you gain the strength to ask me to leave.

After a month, I ask you to be friends and tell you that your tormented emotions are just you being dramatic and 'reveling in your sore tooth' and you're being silly. I ask you to trust me to make good decisions.

Go through that exercise before any more correspondence with me, or when you find yourself questioning my actions. There's your answer.

Zen, I understand your frustration with Coho. But trying to have the last word, no matter how much sense it makes, will make no difference. She is broken, you can't fix her. Save yourself the gray hairs and the stomach acid. Focus on your kids and your family and friends. Tell Coho that ALL correspondence must go through your attorney. Better yet, have the attorney tell her in writing. And if she attempts to break that rule, tell your attorney. He (or she?) will put a stop to it. It might cost you a few more dollars but it will give you peace of mind.

Zen, I think the best "last word" you could put in would be to ignore her nonsense altogether.

Nothing drives a drama queen madder than that.

I know!!! I'm a glutton for punishment. She is officially on ignore.

SWW, your comments really ring a bell now that I am out of the mystical cloud of hope.

I already sleep better than I have through this entire episode. That started the moment I decided to divorce. The churning anxiety is pretty much gone. It returns when I see her or have communication with her, but it grows less and less.

Truly, I don't have the horrible anxiety over knowing she's with the OM. She's living there ('staying' she says - see the distinction? Social graces must be maintained). And it doesn't affect me as it did a month ago. I'm lonely, but keeping busy socially and with the kiddos. I certainy have more love and support from family and friends than I could ever have hoped for, and that helps.

Time is the key I guess. Did you do any therapy SWW?

Amen. But do it for you, not to drive her mad.

You have a distinction to use too, Zen. She's not cheating on you anymore because you are divorcing her! So she can "stay" with OM all she wants. It's nothing to you anymore.

In fact, soon he'll not even be OM anymore. He will just be M. And soon after that, there will be another OM.

My advice -- Go as long as you can without corresponding with Coho. Make it a game if you have to to see how many hours, days, whatever, you can go without talking with her.

In other words -- ignore her.

And when you feel like venting -- do. But not to Coho. Find a friend who will listen 24/7. Or try this -- compose lenghty text messages or emails and when you've said all you wanted to say, press "delete" instead of "send."

Today -- twice in fact -- I even vented out loud in the car. I let WH have it but good. I scream and yelled like he was right there in the passenger seat. Sometimes I visualize us in court and the attorney ramming it home with question after question. (I pretend I'm the attorney.)

So, Zen, try to not talk to Coho. But talk ABOUT her if you have to to get it all out.

It does get easier with time. And I agree with what someone else said -- Coho is broken and you can't fix her. And no amount of arguing is going to get through to her.

Yeah, but i found it prolonged the agony.

Remember that every email you send will end up in her attorney's hands. I would refrain from insulting her or saying anything that could be twisted against you in court.

But that doesn't mean i dont think you should do it, therapy i mean. I needed it. just another step...it just wasn't the answer, for me at least. I needed to find it on my own.

"I realized for real finally that I can't control her. I can't rescue her. I can't make her do one thing vs. another."

This is THE thing I need to get through my head right now. It should be glaringly obvious that I can't turn her around with logic and pleas and begging. And yet I keep trying to do it. Believe me, I have no intention of ever trying to fix our relationship, but I would very much like to see her fix herself for her children and herself. Her assertion that she's fixing herself while with the OM is utterly laughable and disgusting. To see her going headlong into this is like watching a kamakaze who has convinced himself he's an airline pilot.

Lots of people have drug addicts in their family. They just (hopefully) shrug and move on and live 'real' lives without that person. Write him off as a lost cause. Your children will do better if you do this.

Don't feel bad about it, you trying to convince her of stuff. You intellectually understand that you can't do it, you just aren't at the point where you are gonna stop trying. That's alright...for awhile. Then, you've GOT to let her go. Let her destroy her life.

Let her.

You are safe with the kids and the truth will always be with you. By that i don't mean you bash Coho, but they do and will understand.

The kindest thing you can do for Coho, for yourself, and most importantly your kids, is to stop worrying about her and let her self-destruct.

She doesn't want your "help" now anyway.

She will in the future most likely, but who knows if she'll ever have the strength to admit it.

Let it go....

SWW

Yes, my sister is a recovering heroine addict. After she used me over and over for years, I did finally write her off to a degree. I just made her aware that I loved her and would be there for her when she made better choices, but I couldn't be part of her world anymore. It took me years to get to this point. In my family, I'm the one who always kept it together, made the right choices, remained responsible even when it was hard. I even had this role with my mother at times. The 'saving' complex runs deep in my veins.

My sister has been clean for about 5 years now, and living on the right side of the law with a good husband and beautiful daughter. In the end, it was her that did the hard work. It's wonderful to have my sister back.

SWW, those are wise words, thank you. In the last month I have felt my best when I have no communication with her. I need to return to that state.

I need to keep the balling rolling as fast as I can on the divorce. That will bring a lot of peace I think.

I know this is a sentiment that many go through here, but when I argue with her, it is very unnerving. I mean I know I'm right, all I have to do is check any human alive outside our situation to ask, "Is it normal for my wife to cheat on me twice, for months with my full knowledge, then move in with the guy and expect to take her children there and for us to become friends?" Most of the people I talk to are just amazed that she's already moved in. It's extraordinary to them. For me, once you've been in Affairland for awhile, nothing is shocking anymore. Still, talking to her literally makes me question my sanity, and I have never had to do that in my life. So yes, best to not communicate at all because it's maddening. Again, all I have to do is ask family or friends, and they say it succinctly: "She's insane."

Zen: Don't know if you heard...but DDay#3 for me yesterday

Me and you rowing in the same boat once again...

I understand your want to help her. I feel the same way. I have so deep of feelings for her that i WANT her to heal. BUt it's just going to have to happen without me. She needs to feel the pain of her actions...needs to feel reprecussions for her infedelity, strike that, infedeliTIES.

Hang in there brother. I will do the same.

OH NO!!!! DNU1. I'm crying for you my brother. I'm so so sorry. I'll catch up with you.