FWH and I have only been to one session of counseling since the A. Even that one session seemed pointless because we had already talked about all the the things the counselor had for us to work through that same morning before we arrived. We are able to calmly talk through our problems most of the time and I honestly think we are doing really well. My mother who knows about the A keeps bringing up the need for us to go to counseling. Not only can we not afford it, we also don't see it as a need. It has been like ten months since NC now and I think we are doing better than ever. I'm guessing that Mom is still not trusting my H and thinks that counseling will straighten him out. He has given me no reason since the A to not be trusted so what I need to know is, are we missing something vital and important by not seeing a therapist or a counselor? I thought the point of counseling was to help us talk and understand each other in a healthy way, if we can do that without help is it really necessary?

I saw a statistic yesterday...

the professions with the highest percentage of divorce were/are:

drum roll...

pyschiatrists and marriage counselors



Mrs. W and I didn't use a counselor...however, we DID use this website extensively. I think it's OK to go it alone as long as you don't sweep it under the rug. What is essential that you work on is a PLAN to affair-proof your marriage. Rehashing the past is not nearly as important as having an IMPLEMENTED and well-crafted PLAN for the future.

Is your husband aware that statistically, the Betrayed Spouse is the more likely one to cheat next???? Maybe that will help motivate him to work jointly on such plan.

Mr. Wondering

Marriage counselors aren't that reliable. However, personal counselors (ICs), who help you with your own demons unrelated to your marriage that may have contributed to your marriage's problems, can be a great help. Remember, we marry our parents and we reenact their marriage - unless we learn and take steps to not do that (if it was a bad example).

That said, if you have marriage issues, the best money you can spend is to either do a phone session(s) with the Harleys or to go to one of the MB weekends.

Did you do the LB and EN questionnaires?

I would say it IS OK NOT to. Why? Well, let's see... I just FIRED ours LOL.

A good counselor is worth their weight in platinum, and a bad one is a as destructive as an F5 tornado.

Someone will surely come along to tell you about sliding scale counseling centers, and I will tell you that sometimes you get what you pay for. Psychologists are less and less available and Masters level are more and more prevalent, and YMMV, but I have now found that I don't think I'd EVER recommend Masters level counseling unless that specific counselor comes hugely recommended. Why? Well our MC was through a sliding scale place and turned out to be more harm than good, AND H's IC was through the same agency, and proved completely useless. We do have IC coverage, so we got H in with a Psychologist in private practice with great recommendations and I still have my IC through our insurance as well, and when we are ready to move back into MC, my IC has put us in with a Psychologist whom she knows and respects and whose MC credits are good, and then it will be billed under me for IC but bringing H in because I have a problem that is "relationship based." You might inquire about that kind of thing if you have IC MH coverage.

I *do* think a counselor is a good thing, if they are a good counselor. I love my IC. She rocks.

Recommendation:

My wife and I got the MB book "His Needs/Her Needs" off this website. We purchased the audio/CD version and took a road trip without our daugther to listen to it together. We could hardly get through 15 minutes at a time before one of us pause the cd to discuss things. It was early in our recovery and was one of the first big breakthroughs for us.

A car is the idle place to listen to it together. Without distractions, direct eye contact and non-verbal cues it is much easier to be open about this stuff. I find "former" wayward husbands, in particular, sometimes get hung up on talking about their waywardness. They just want to move on. I think some of this is a guys tendency to now want to speak about their failures. For instance, exactly how many times do you hear a guy talk about their high school sports failures or the year they road the bench. Get a guy into a car with something to do (DRIVE) and he'll actually FOCUS and listen to CD and discuss in the non-hostile/non-confrontational environment.

Good luck

Mr. Wondering

I learn something every day.
Thanks Mr W

Torn
You've actually begun the steps Harley discusses in his concepts. There has been NC with WH and OW. That's a great start. Your WH has made his first payment toward just compensation. Now you want to finish the steps that teach you both how to protect and nurture your M. To many couples fail to go beyond where you are and many end up back here with problems in the M. Do you both know your emotional needs? Do you know what your love busters are? If you are unable to answer these questions, you M is bound to have repeating problems. I would think it's worth the effort to read the concepts here, try them out (I like the CD/Car idea) - you have nothing to lose but if you don't take steps to protect and nurture your M you have a lot more to lose.

My FWH and I went to MC and were fortunate she was good. We found this site later and my FWH liked it better.

GG

I prefer a good pedicure myself.

This is the ONLY place I ever get anything accomplished with my H. You and your H are not looking at each other eye to eye - therefore it is not a confrontation, so he doesn't feel like he has to 'win.' Amazing how well it works. More of that psychobabble that people have so much trouble with around here.

Torn,

I must weigh in on this from personal experience:

Are you SURE that WH's affair is indeed OVER???? I.e. absolute and perpetual no-contact?

The reason why this is so important is that you can't "work on" or "rebuild" a marriage and deal with its issues WHILE an affair is still underway. The WS simply is not there with same motivations and level of commitment needed for any headway to be made. If the A is indeed over and done with & your fWH has RE-COMMITTED to you and the marriage, then counseling is of benefit, assuming you have a good, pro-marriage counselor.

If the A is still (secretly) ongoing, do NOT go to counseling with a WS because:

--They won't participate in a sincere fashion
--It becomes a cake-eating enabler for them
--It's a waste of time and money under the circumstances
--A WS will use the "failure" of counseling as an excuse and rationalization mechanism to justify running to their OP and saying to themselves (and others) "See? I tried C and it didn't work! My M is over and I need to be with OP"

My 2 cents...BTDT

Hi All, I haven't posted here in a long time. I thought it might be best to update by adding to one of my old threads. First of all, it's been almost two years since NC, still no counseling for us lol, and we are doing ok. I'm positive that the A is over, there has been NC since Dday, I did my share of checking to make sure of that and I have occasionally checked more recently too but not with the same level of obsession that I did earlier on.

My only issue right now is that I am feeling kind of distant from my DH and am not really sure what to do about it. I guess it could be just a normal marriage issue, all couples experience some distance at times... but I really don't think that's what it is. I think it's something more like bitterness for the A that is keeping me distant which is rather surprising because I thought that I had dealt with forgiving him before now. Some part of me is still very much in love with him while another wants to punch him. I'm not a violent person, and would never hit him, it's very strange to me to feel angry like this. Should I even tell DH that I'm feeling this way or just wait for it to pass?

Hiya - glad you're doing better =-)

Are you and DH spending at least 15 hours of UA time together. It's easy to start letting that slip and I've noticed once it does it's a hop, skip and a jump away from feeling distant and resentful.

How well have you implemented the other MB principles: POJA, EN/LBs, PORH, etc.?

ETA: Does he have his EPs in place - are you comfortable with them?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with all those abbreviations lol. From what I have read of the MB we seem to be doing mostly all the right things. Nothing sticks out in my mind as being as it shouldn't...except, that he has been working long hours the past few weeks, I haven't seen as much of him as I would like and I think that's probably adding to the resentment.

No worries, let me translate.



I can guarantee you that the spending less time together will have a negative impact on your relationship. You MUST prioritize this time together, at least 15 hours every week or your distance and resentment will grow. Move heaven and earth to get it or it will get worse.

I honestly don't think we have 15 hours a week to spend together, I don't know if we ever have since we've been married. We have four kids ages 6,5,3, and 18 months who usually get up a 6 AM and the last one doesn't go to sleep until 8PM most evenings. Once the kids are finally asleep we both have homework (we are both full time students online) to finish or cleaning that has to get done. I have already tried putting off the cleaning until later but when the kids are up during the day they make even more mess, putting it off makes the problem of mess grow exponentially. We can't quit school, neither of us have a degree and are living off a rather low income, our grades have already suffered due to illness earlier this semester and I don't know if we can risk failure if we ever hope to get out of the trailer park. Of course I realize our marriage is more important than a clean house or a good grade but realistically we can only get like 5 hours a week of UA. I don't really understand how any couple can find more time than that....

They make the time because their marriage comes first.

If I'm not mistaken, DR. H will not even consider counselling a couple who won't commit to the 15 hours. You just CAN'T stay in love with someone you don't spend time with.

I know it's hard. DH is a full time student who works 20-30 hours a week and moonlights fixing computers. I work full time and am heavily involved with church as well as studying for my licensing exams. We have a 5 month daughter.

YOU HAVE to prioritize this or it won't work. Your children need you and your husband to have a happy marriage, for the sake of their own happiness.

If you allocate just 1 hour a day after the kids go to sleep, thats 7 hours. Wake up half an hour earlier and eat breakfast or shower together. That's 10 1/2 hours right there. Do housework together. Thats what DH and I have had to start doing. He washes, I dry. He sweeps, I dust. We put a movie on and fold laundry.

Look into Flylady - there's a thread in 101 for people doing it. I'm going to start, to try to organize my cleaning.

Find another couple you could team up with and trade off weeks watching the kids to have a date night.

There HAS to be a way you can find the time.

So income is more important than marriage?

Is there something wrong with my low-income friends?

Did you know that people with happier marriages tend to earn more:


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html#sec2

I have five. And Markos and I have managed to find 21 hours of UA time together this week.

You are making excuses.

Make your marriage your first priority, or you won't have a marriage left. What good is a clean house then? Or a degree?
Did you know people can live quite comfortably without a degree? My father never had one, and we were quite well fed and happy. Is your schooling more important than your marriage?

I think I'd rather live in a trailer park with someone I was in love with, than in a mansion alone.

Even if you don't give up school, you can still come up with the time. Your kids are in bed by 8:00, right? 8:00-10:00 7 days a week is 14 hours. Squeeze in another hour in there somewhere, and you got the time. Do your homework from 10:00-midnight. Six hours of sleep a night, while not ideal, can be done.

Point is, THINK RADICAL. I mean, really, if I can do it with 5 young kids, so can you.