Dear HopingHeart,
I want to share somethings with you that you will discover through your life, maybe when it is too late to change them, when you will regret many of them, and mourn many more.

You will do some things over which you will grieve immensely. You will hurt those in your life more than you ever thought possible, and every part of you will die inside, day after day, as you deal with the hurt and the pain you've caused. You will regret your horrible mistakes, but the people who matter won't believe you. You will ask for a second chance, and you will long for the days when the one you love could still hope in you, but they will be unable to give it. You will suffer trying to re-earn their love. You will struggle with serious depression. You will miss the man you married, even as you are still married to him. You will miss him, because he will no longer emotionally be there. You will have hurt him too much. A part of you will die with him. A dream will die with him. He will leave you, and a part of you will be permanently severed. You will walk around feeling like your arm was cut off. When you talk to him, on those few occasions, you will savor hearing his voice. You will save voice messages, even if he just tells you something as simple as," Yes, that so and so's car parked in the spot."

You will think back on your life together, and realize all the ways that you were not who you should have been to him. You will realize how much you let him down. You will wish you could rewind time and live it over, do it again, differently. You will also mourn that this is who you are... a person who has acted in these ways. You will wish that love could be a gift, unconditional. You will mourn that it is not. You will mourn that you were not.

None of your attempts will stop the divorce. He has made up his mind. And you will grieve.

You want sympathy?

No.

Sympathy is about recognizing that every one of us is human, and that every one of us makes mistakes. Please refrain from posting emotionally abusive comments on my thread.

HopingHeart,
Well you have it with me. My husband abused me in the worst way, emotionally, verbally, cheating on me, lying to me, standing me up week after week, month after month, taking me for over $50,000 so that I will lose my home, and finally, abandoning me without even having the decency to let me know. I divorced him as he really left me no option...and still he never came home, never attempted to save our marriage...all of this after I was a wonderful wife to him. I don't think I could have done anything differently except to have not married him in the first place. He broke my heart beyond what I ever would have imagined possible. I would have given anything had he shown the remorse you are.

When one sees their mistakes and regrets them, it gives that person a chance to change and grow. You have faced the flaws within yourself that preempt that change, and even though your husband may not give you another chance and you have consequences to bear, you can still use those lessons to go on and be a better person and live a good life from here forward. Use what you have gone through as a teaching lesson for yourself and others so that others can be spared.

The worst thing in the world is not our failures, the worst thing in the world is not learning from them. Ask God's forgiveness and direction, forgive yourself and move on.

Peace to you!

MB allows BSs and FBSs to process and work through their WS' and FWS's A, and part of how I see MB do that is by allowing that process to happen by permitting a certain amount of emotional and verbal abuse from BS's and FBS's in their comments and posts. There is a view that some emotional/verbal abuse is therapeutic for BSs.

But then...

But then, some BSs seek out FWS's posts, and they verbally and emotionally abuse them, ON THEIR OWN THREADS. That is not right. When I have experienced this, the moderators have often done nothing... It is in direct contradiction with Dr. Harley's book on LoveBusters...

I am a human being with feelings, and no matter my mistakes, I am worthwhile and matter. Evey human being should be treated with honor and integrity. In my own life, I have worked hard to regain my integrity. I don't have to prove that to any of you. And anyone wanting to throw tomatoes at me, I ask, what is going on inside of you that you want to do that? The hate, the bitterness? What is going on inside of you? Because at that point, it's not about me, my actions, but about you.... It's not about whether I'm a person of integrity, but about your anger, your hostility, your hardness of heart, your desire for revenge. I am not your punching bag. What's going on with you that you would attack an innocent person who has done nothing to you? That you would intentionally post knowingly hurtful comments? What's going on there?

Now kindly, take what is going on there, and POST YOUR OWN THREAD. Don't post your emotional processing and internal guck on my thread. Stop projecting on to me. I am not your BS or FBS. I am not your counselor and my role here is not to process your guk for you. I have come here for my own healing. Don't make my thread about YOU.

You changed your sig line BLAMING your XBH.

Did you not?

Hi Vows4Good!
I am so sorry to hear of how your H hurt you, cheated on you.... It must have been very, very hard to go through. I get so sad when I hear stories like yours. You didn't deserve that. You should have been loved and cherished. Validated and comforted. You deserved to hear from your H's own words that he failed you grieviously with his actions, his words, and behavior, and that you deserved so much more, and that he is so sorry. I am sorry that that never happened. =( That must be so hard.

I am truly sorry for all the stupid things I did. And they WERE STUPID. So stupid. Really, a form of sabotage, of ruining the beautiful, ruining the best and most worthwhile things... ruining trust, ruining the priceless gift of love that H had given me.

I have never gotten his heart back after that. =( It is amazing how your whole life can change because of something stupid you do.

It took me a LONG time to get my integrity back. With the A, I learned how to lie. I had never really lied before... but I became this duplicitous person... To become transparent again, to not "hide" things, anything, was so difficult. Going down the road of an A corrupts you. It's like digging out thorn bushes to clear the ground again.

I don't believe H ever believed that I could "clear the ground", become a person of integrity again. It is doable, but it is very costly. I have had to come to terms with what I have done. How I have hurt H. What I have taken from him. How I have damaged the M. I have had to accept the repurcussions, too. The distance in our M has been torture in and of itself. The loss of H as my companion. It became evident to me that I had been demoted... that's why I think the thing with his alcoholic parents happened, where he put them first over me... it killed me to experience it. I had put someone above him, and now he put someone above me in our marriage.

I know that God has forgiven me, even when I have been unable to forgive myself. I think that is the only way I made it through.

H keeps talking about divorce. Is it possible anything is left? We are separated, he left and moved to another state. I have kept hoping and praying... but finally... I am starting to prepare to move on. He has said he has made up his mind, he is divorcing me. He hasn't started the process, but that is because of current monetary constraints (splitting up our estate will be a task..)
I understand that he cannot forgive my mistakes. Or maybe he can forgive them, but not trust again. I am not good at recognizing when I should move on.

I know what I cannot do, though... I have felt like a dog, begging for scraps, begging for love and attention, begging to be noticed by H. The A and all my other mistakes were reasons he withheld from me. I cannot live like that any more. A life of deprivation... where my own husband is not excited to see me, where he doesn't come home after work, where he doesn't answer my calls... I cannot live in isolation like that any more in my marriage...

Pariah,
Explaining context is not casting blame. Seems you're doing some false dichotomizing...

Wikipedia False Dichotomy Wikipedia on false dichotomies

So are you going to get half?

If so he still loses and you still win and keep the trophy of your adultery.

Pariah, please leave me alone. I've already asked you kindly to not post degrading comments on my thread.

I think also you should explore passive aggressive disorder. The way you are acting with me is really concerning me and this type of behavior has damaging consequences to relationships when it comes out...

Btw, what you are doing is called "emotional abuse".

HH, Until Pariah's last post where he said you'd "keep the trophy of your adultery" he didn't say anything remotely emotionally abusive. And, the last phrase may have been insulting, but it wasn't abusive in my book. I beg you, please don't bandy the word "abuse" about. If you do, it will lose meaning. If anything can be abuse, nothing is abuse. Besides, you just insulted him right back. That's probably not going to help.

What did you hope to accomplish when you posted your letter to yourself? I'm nto sure what you want, but I will offer you a little insight. If you truly repent, accept God's forgivenss and start again. There will be people who won't be able to get past your infidelity, no matter how blamelessly you live the rest of your life. But that won't matter because they won't be part of your life, and the brief times they touch your life will serve as reminder.

I agree.

fwiw, I'd rather hear what you've learned, than what you're stuck with.

Hopingheart,
I'm not familiar with you story and I'm sorry for your pain. BS and WS - the ones interested in R - all wish we could go back and change things. But we can't. We can only control the now and our future.



Are you grieving the loss of the person you used to be and now regret the person you've become?

Quoting from:
Emotional Abuse definition link

Basic Needs in Relationships

If you have been involved in emotionally abusive relationships, you may not have a clear idea of what a healthy relationship is like. Evna (1992) suggests the following as basic needs in a relationship for you and your partner: (I have changed this from "rights" to "needs" and made other small changes- S.Hein)

* The need for good will from the others.
* The need for emotional support.
* The need to be heard by the other and to be responded to with respect and acceptance
* The need to have your own view, even if others have a different view.
* The need to have your feelings and experience acknowledged as real.
* The need to receive a sincere apology for any jokes or actions you find offensive.
* The need for clear, honest and informative answers to questions about what affects you.
* The need to for freedom from accusation, interrogation and blame.
* The need to live free from criticism and judgment.
* The need to have your work and your interests respected.
* The need for encouragement.
* The need for freedom from emotional and physical threat.
* The need for freedom from from angry outburst and rage.
* The need for freedom from labels which devalue you.
* The need to be respectfully asked rather than ordered.
* The need to have your final decisions accepted.
* The need for privacy at times.

-----
Pariah came out and for no reason, posted on my thread to tell me that he was not going to give me sympathy. That's fine, I don't mind, but the act of him posting it onto my thread, when obviously I am grieving and sympathy is what most need, as a human being, not an adulteress (which is what he marginalized me into), and he threw it in my face... both passive aggressive and emotionally abusive. I think Pariah knew what he was doing.. it was NOT accidental on his part.

Emotional abuse is REAL. Please don't tell me I don't know what emotional abuse is. I know what it is, experienced it intimately in my marriage from my H. I also did my own share of damage and hurt. It's NOT okay for Pariah to throw mud at me.

He seems angry. Fine. But what people DO with anger can be damaging. He did not post an say, "Reading your post makes me feel angry and makes me think about my exW's affair". No-- instead, he lashed out at me. And OUCH. It hurt. It was not called for and it was emotionally abusive. Pariah doesn't even know me, yet he is treating me with disrespect. It is not honoring another person, not showing them respect to tell someone point blank (in written words) that you are going to withhold sympathy. That's deliberately taunting someone.. and yes.. that is abusive.

Pariah, I am NOT your exW. You don't know anything about me. You don't know my heart or my character, and because I made a mistake in my past does not make you an authority on my character in any way. It is enough that I have expressed hurt to your comments and asked you to stop that you should KNOW that your comments are hurtful and abusive.

Hi gg6145,

I am not regretting who I've become. I like who I am now. I am a person of integrity, I live my life intentionally, with purpose and with meaning. I am grieving the loss of my marriage. I am grieving bad decisions on my part. I am grieving that my husband will not forgive me.

Sometimes it feels that people don't really through my threads.. not sure if you did or not. I talked about regaining integrity. I have regained integrity. That's not a facade, or a fake thing. It's bonafide and real. Integrity addresses trustworthiness, honor, being who you seem. Integrity is not the same thing as being legalistic, or not doing "wrong" things out of a legalistic orientation. Honor is about doing what is right because it is right, not because one feels obligated to, or because loss is experienced otherwise.

I like who I am. Who I am is not who I was four years ago in the A. People change. They change either intentionally, guiding and stewarding their own growth, or they change accidentally. But people change all the time.. Staying the same is an illusion. That's why intentionality matters.

Pariah has a bit of passive aggressive stuff going on. I'm not aiming to insult, I'm just observing. The under the cuff remarks are passive aggressiveness. And passive aggressiveness is a disorder. It's a personality disorder--- a pattern so a part of a person's personality that without intentional work aimed specifically at it it is unlikely to stop. His passive aggressiveness has been pretty consistent on MB postings... Anger is one thing. But there are healthy ways to express the anger, and passive aggressiveness is not one of them.

HH, withholding sympathy is NOT abusive. If Pariah had called you a slut, a tramp, or names, that would have been insulting, but I really don't think it reaches the level of beating you silly. By the nature of the venue, it's not pervasive.

The "needs" are what is needed for a healthy relationship. As far as I know, you aren't in a relationship with Pariah, so they don't apply. Also, the lack of having those needs met is not necessarily abuse. Sometimes, it may be abuse, but "emotional abuse" is a very vague, wobbly thing. Far too many people are quick to label their spouse's behavior or other's behavior as abusive, when in fact, it is simply obnoxious, selfish, manipulative or uncomfortable.

As for grieving, it's a long road that you have to walk alone. In my own experience, sympathy has not been productive. It is what it is. I have to accept it, adjust and move on. My experience in grieving may make me less "sympathetic" to your journey. Grief is a part of life, and we all need to accept it. All relationships come to an end at some point. Our job is to grow and adjust. If you are stuck, and can't get to the "accpetabce" phase of grief, maybe talking with someone would help. I know some grief groups will take anyone experiencing loss, but on other boards, I've heard widows complain about people who are grieving divorce, so I don't recommend that.

I'm not passive aggressive, I made my point loud and clear. I am usually full on clear about my feelings.

I don't believe you, no matter how much you have tried to convince yourself that everything is all fine now.

It's like the car that has been stolen, wrecked and brought to some third rate body shop and the owner told that it's better than it was before it was stolen when it is returned.

The paint don't match and you can see every glop of Bondo®.

If you have truly repented, gotten right with your god, then you will allow him his right as defined in the book to divorce you and live his life and be happy for him with his decision.

Hi Greengables,
I didn't say I was in a relationship with Pariah... the link was addressing things people need from interactions with others--- I merely pointed them out as it's easier to delineate "healthy" interactions than "unhealthy" ones.

I do not feel heard at all... I am not sure why.

Additionally, look at Pariah's comment above. Pariah doesn't know ANYTHING about me, yet he has directly invalidated the growth I had said I have done--- that is emotional abuse. And telling me he doesn't believe me---- so thus calling me a liar--- that is verbal abuse. Pariah obviously has a following-- otherwise I just can't make sense of why no one else is saying anything. Since I've studied abuse, I feel confident that my definition is not the issue. Additionally, regardless what it's called, his comments have evidently been hurtful, but he has not apologized for putting down a total stranger--- hurting a total stranger--- and even continues to do so in his post immediately preceding mine.

I also wonder if many people do not recognize emotional abuse because they participate in it--- because they emotionally abuse others, and rationalize to themselves why it's not abuse--- thus the rationalizations coming out on my thread!

You will be interested to know that in the past when I have addressed abusiveness on the part of MBers, that MY HUSBAND likewise expressed that YES the MBers were abusive---- so it makes me think that some believe that because I am a FWS that I "deserve" it.

I didn't realize that the MB forum was only for BSs. I thought it was for healing. I certainly didn't realize it was a place for condemnation.

Pariah, if you were a bit more familiar with Christianity, you'd also know that God can redeem people and change their hearts, and make them new... change can happen, change does happen..

I got a full double barreled dose of your version of Christianity.

Where the victim is blamed and the guilty is encouraged that it wasn't their fault.

Besides, repentance is for people who wish to receive salvation, not a get out of hell free card carte blanche to sin with no consequences.

You are suffering the consequences of your blatant sin in the face of God.

I know my sin, I accept it and the consequences even though I am forgiven, it doesn't mean I won't suffer the repercussions.

I can honestly say that I've felt the hand of God himself on my short visit to the other side and am no longer blinded by the selfish wants of putting him in a thimble to do my bidding like some sort of supernatural pez dispenser.

What you are going to have to do is come to accept that you and you alone destroyed your marriage, you need to settle HIS demands even if it means he takes everything so your acount is cleared in the debt to him in your sin. As when you KNOW better to commit adultery, you must settle your account with your accuser before it gets sent to the Judge himself as he can still hand you over to the jailer and off to the pit you go.