Okay, how do the rest of you handle this?

I am a Baptist, which is a pretty conservative church, and I've endured hearing sermons on how awful it is that even Christians are divorcing...
I have people make the comments, "so HOW many times have you been married???"

I was an excellent wife who was married to someone who cheated on me, I went on MB and read/learned/implemented all of the principles, yet even so, he did it again and is STILL with OW. He not only cheated on me, but conned me, stole from me, lied to me continually, and never once tried to save our marriage. He broke my heart and for this I am labeled divorced. How do we handle this? I feel like I'm being raped by him and again by society!

I also belong to a very conservative church. I worried for a long time that I would be shunned by my church and even my family if I left my husband. As a result, I covered for my husband's affair and alchoholism and put up with WAY too much for WAY too long.

When I finally quit covering for him (and enabling him) everyone found out about HIS problems. Because he's a public person, it was even on the news! I was embarassed at first, but I found incredible support and love from my family and my church family. I found out who my true friends were.

You need to remember the part where YOU were an EXCELLENT WIFE. You did not do anything wrong. HE broke his vows to you. You can hold your head high. Divorce IS awful... but that does not mean that you are awful or should feel bad about it. You did everything you could.

Hi. I don't belong to a very conservative church but I have heard sermons and gotten "the look" out in public when I say I'm divorced. I also notice married women sometimes don't want to befriend me -- do they think I'll steal their husbands? Or we don't have anything in common cuz I can't keep a man? I don't know...

I heard a dj talking today about how awful it is that women just go and think they can single-handedly raise their kids. That fatherless sons are a societal ill, etc, etc.

What do I do with this?

I figure that the people giving the sermons, looks, or opinions don't really KNOW ME or MY SITUATION or MY EX or MY KIDS, so what they tend to make is blanket statements and assumptions about divorce. The truth is that sometimes divorce is needed. Sometimes people cheat or abuse which is DEFINITELY grounds for divorce according to the bible.

To help myself, I also acknowledge that, in general, it is a great shame that so many families aren't remaining intact. And I acknowledge that in an ideal world, it would have been WONDERFUL if my ex would have given up drinking and stepped up to be a responsible man. We'd still be together. However, that being said, I acknowledge that the reality is we're divorced because of how things turned out in reality. And our relationship as ex's isn't even healthy! But anyhow, being divorced from him is better than being with him. I know I have an uphill battle in raising my kids with a very part-time dad in their lives...but we couldn't very well stay in such a dysfunctional home.

God knows.

And you might let your pastor know your feelings too.

Good luck.

I wish pastors and preachers would stop preaching on divorce being bad, and instead preach on the problems that lead to divorce: selfishness, people acting like princes and princesses and not caring about their families, affairs, attitudes of entitlemnet, bullying, abuse, alcoholism, laziness. Saying divorce is a sin is like saying a fever is the illness. Divorce is the result of someone committing a sin usually over and over again. As ThornedRose says, God hates the hard heart that leads to divorce, not divorce. Unfortunately, I think too many pastors have too limited experience in dealing with individuals and marriages. They don't get a chance to see all the ins and outs, and it's simply easier to preach on avoiding the result, rather than the cause.

FWIW, as a widow under the age of 70, I sometimes feel shunned as well. It's as if what happened to me is contagious. No one knows what to say. Divorced is normal compared to widowed in my age bracket. And doesn't that say a lot about our society? There are a lot of young widows and widowers out there. It's just that there are so many more people who are divorced.

Take whatever you ladies experience and multiply by 10 if you are a divorced man.

The church assumes you had the affair, or beat your wife, or was otherwise abusive, etc.

When you go to them for help when your wife is having an affair, they ask you what you did to cause her to have an affair.

Even before you divorce, the jobs you once had in the church disappear and yes, as you said, folks think divorce is contagious and if they are too close to you, they might catch it.

The church spent far more time fighting same-sex marriage than it did working to reach my former wife, entice her out of her affair and back into the church, etc, not to mention blaming me for her affair.

Years after the divorce was final, our couples Sunday School teacher wrote me a letter asking me why I hadn't been in the class, should they drop my name from the rolls, etc.

So I wrote him back, telling how I didn't see any support when my wife had her affair. I did see lots of blame, and that his letter was the first contact from a church that has on the marquee "Friendly First Baptist Church..."

I asked what evidence could he cite that they are really friendly when I'd not been contacted, the pastor blamed me for the affair, when I asked about volunteer positions no one answered, when I asked the pastor in charge of Sunday School for a class recommendation since a divorced man wasn't a good fit for a couples class, and got NO responses to any of those questions, what would he cite as evidence it was the Friendly First Baptist Church.

His answer wasn't sorry our church behaved that way, it was, "I'm sorry you feel that way."

No ownership at all of the churches failures. I owned mine and was crystal clear how I had failed, what help I needed, etc.

The body of Christ in that building did not step up and do their part. Instead, they were full of the spiritual gift of assumption, not to mention judgment.

Good riddance.

I got abandoned by my baptist chirch "family" also.


Christians cannibalize their wounded.

Wow! I am, would you know it, Baptist. I have spoken at length with my pastor, before obtaining the divorce. He said he couldn't tell me to get a divorce but I couldn't be faulted for it. My husband not only cheated on me, but lived with the other woman...the first time I forgave him, the second time I got a divorce. Cheating was only part of it, he lied, conned, manipulated, stole from me, abandoned me, and stood me up week after week, month after month. How anyone can be expected to stay in that, I'll never know. But then people ask me HOW many times have you been married anyway?! And this is the second such sermon I've endured on this...the first one I sat through in tears as I was going through the divorce and was pretty sensitive to such issues. I feel like people look at me like there's something wrong with me (as someone else said here, "can't keep a husband") when in fact, I was a better wife than almost anyone out there. I like how Greengables put it:

"I wish pastors and preachers would stop preaching on divorce being bad, and instead preach on the problems that lead to divorce: selfishness, people acting like princes and princesses and not caring about their families, affairs, attitudes of entitlement, bullying, abuse, alcoholism, laziness. Saying divorce is a sin is like saying a fever is the illness. Divorce is the result of someone committing a sin usually over and over again. As ThornedRose says, God hates the hard heart that leads to divorce, not divorce."

I notice in the Bible (OT) it says for the hardness of our hearts Moses gave a writing of divorce...it doesn't put down divorce itself, but if you examined it further it'd show it is what leads to divorce rather than the actual decree itself that God doesn't like. Did anyone ever stop to wonder why God hates it? For one, maybe because of all the pain WE have to go through! Hey, at least we have HIM for us!

And yes, I've been widowed too...and I also experience those who acted as if it was contagious. Go figure.

Actually, it was Jesus who said that Moses allows for divorce because of the hardness of our hearts.

The problem with most pastors trying to do marital counseling is that they are woefully under prepared for such things. A man might spend 6 years or more preparing to become an ordained minister but of that time seldom is more than 1 semester spent on anything that resembles counseling. In addition, even the term "pastor" which is described in Ephesians chapter 4 as one of Christ's gifts to the church for the equipping of the saints is often misapplied. The term "pastor" actually refers to what we might call a shepherd, that is, one who watches over the flock. While it is closely related to the term used in conjunction with it, that of "teacher" many are strong on the second while very weak on the first. And more importantly, even those who are clearly good at caring for the flock entrusted to them are seldom experts in infidelity or divorce unless they themselves have been through it and have recovered. I can tell you that even those who have read Dr Harley but have studied no farther than reading a few of his books will usually blame the man no matter who is really at fault. My own pastor who is a BIG Harley fan and pretty much referred me to MB began his explanation of my wife's affair "The problem is that your wife's Love Bank is empty..."

No, the PROBLEM was that she was having an affair!

Jesus allows for divorce in the case of adultery precisely because He knows that people are not always capable of forgiving the way He might even when confronted by true repentance.

Ironically, the only places in the Old Testament where divorce is expressly forbidden is in cases of rape or coercion and when a man falsely accuses his new bride of not being a virgin and it can be proven that she was until the wedding night. In those instances a man must remain married to the woman for the rest of his life and not divorce her for any reason. (see Deuteronomy 22)

God also refers to having issued a writ of divorce to Israel (the Northern Kingdom) in Jeremiah chapter 8 because {she) was unfaithful and then says even then her "sister" Judah showed no fear or remorse and did the same thing. It seems God's plan for Judah was Plan B rather than Plan D since Judah was led away into captivity rather than "divorced" and was allowed to return 70 years later.

Of all the laws of divorce that appear in Deuteronomy that might be most interesting is that once a man is divorced from his wife, if his wife remarries and is widowed or divorced again, he can never remarry her. The qualifier is that the original divorce took place because the man found something about his wife to be indecent. (Deuteronomy 24)

As for problems within the church (globally) or within the local church (congregation) as relates to dealing with divorce, adultery and other marital problems; I would suggest that in almost every case the attitude it that of the people within the church rather than the church itself. Since outside the church as well as within few understand the workings of adultery and even those who have experienced it are sometimes unable to relate it to anything but personal failure, either their own or their wayward spouse.

In Malachi 2 the oft quoted "I hate divorce" statement by God, the context is: Lo and behold the verse so often used to stop a man from divorcing his wife (or a wife her husband) is really a chastisement for those who would divorce in order to be with their affair partner.

According to Barna Research, the divorce rate in the church is exactly the same as within the population at large. The "infidelity" rate is actually a few points higher, thought by researchers to be due to real believers likely being more honest than others, those outside the church or the fact that many more Christians are accepting of a definition of infidelity more closely in line with Jesus definition who includes "looking in lust" upon another as the same as adultery. In other words, a Christian is more likely to accept an EA as being infidelity where the general population leans more toward the physical act of sexual intercourse only as the definition ("I did NOT have sex with that woman...")

OK. I'm done ranting now...

Mark

OK. I'm not done...

ETA: The Old Testament penalty for anyone, man or woman, caught in the act of adultery was death by stoning.(Leviticus 20:10) God even gives a test a man can give to his wife to see if she has been secretly unfaithful. (Numbers 5:14-31)

See also Proverbs 5 and 6 for warning against adultery.

I totally get pastor's not being able or good at MC, etc.

But I don't expect pastors to blame the betrayed when a spouse is cheating.

It's one thing to say (once the affair is over) that meeting EN's is what you need to do to avoid this circumstance in the future. It's quite another to say that your spouse is doing this because you didn't meet her needs.

But even with that, what of all the things a church CAN do. If the unfaithful spouse is a member, why isn't the church on their front door first perhaps one on one asking about why they are having the affair, and if not that, then why not a group of folks.

Why are not churches fighting to keep children from being primarily parented by waywards? Why are churches fighting harder to end same sex marriage than they are to do away with no fault divorce.

The list goes on and on.

There is the process in Matthew 18, that says how to confront sin in the membership. When is the last time you've heard of a church that has actually performed that process to try to either win a sinning member back into the fold, or if they won't end their sin, such as an affair, formally indicate they will not end it, so the betrayed spouse knows everything that could be done was done.

I.E. if the unfaithful spouse will not end the affair (or any sin, but in this case it's an affair) the church is to treat the unrepentant member as an unbeliever. Scripture says we are to let the unbeliever go if they no longer wish to be married to the believer. The believer is not to divorce the unbeliever, as long as the unbeliever wishes to stay married. But if they want to go, 1 Corinthians 7 says let them go.

God's plan B if you will. But churches are not even doing this. Even if they don't have MC skills, the pastor who has studied theology and the scriptures should be able to make this happen.

But I've yet to hear of anyone here who was able to get their church to engage in this manner.

But I know of churches that are doing the Matt 18 process.

I think the biggest reason that people in the church don't do the right things when an affair comes into their midst is that they have NO CLUE what to do. To a non-wayward the only way to even fathom having an affair is if your spouse did something horrendously horrible that made you do it. It is only a simple jump from that through (especially for men here) "If you were the spiritual leader you were meant to be" into "this must be your fault because your spouse wouldn't be having an affair if you did everything right."

Think about how many betrayed spouses come here believing that they caused the affair and even worse, that they are the reason it continues once confronted. This is the NORMAL condition of folks outside of MB and places like this. Couple this with the usual WS bovine excrement about "If you had...I wouldn't..." "I you hadn't...I would..." "I haven't been happy for ____ weeks/months/years (usually a sliding date)...

Add to that the Hollywood model; of what love is all about and how we fall in love without a decision on out part and it is a wonder anyone ever finds the truth about infidelity.
Those who have studied the subject generally have pretty clear views on the matter and understand what happens in an affair, but the average oblivious never-been-cheated-on person has no idea at all.

I would also say that many mainline churches have become so liberal in their theology that they no longer even have the ability to define what is orthodox historical Christianity. Pluralism, acceptance and dilution of the truth have become the norm in seminaries these days. These people are all about acceptance until something comes into view that doesn't match the social model they love so much, that of taking care of single moms, overturning the oppression of the poor and women in general etc...

At the other end are the angry extremists. To them the 11th Commandment is "Thou shalt not rock the boat." Anything that does not fit with their world view is immediately dismissed and wrong. These folks often converse in 1611 English...For these guys being a Christian is all about a bunch of "do" and "do nots" that have little to nothing to do with what Christ taught or what His followers believed in the first century. An affair upsets the balance and causes them to realize that people can't be perfect and for them that is all that is acceptable.

Then there are those that hang their hats on the faith of the believer having an effect on reality. If your life is not what they consider perfect it is due to negative confession or simple lack of believing, as they define it. To these people a spouse having an affair is caused by a failure of the betrayed to have the right depth of faith.

But none of these are failures of Christ, Christianity or "the Church." They are failings and short-comings of the people in the church.

Now here's a thought for anybody who is in a church where you think they should have a support structure for marriages in crisis due to infidelity or any other problem that might cause the marriage to fail...

START ONE.

Why aren't the churches doing better? The people in the churches don't know any better. So let's educate them.

A lot more is accomplished by answering the question "What can I do?" rather than the statement "Somebody should do something."

There are a handful of people here that already know more about dealing with adultery that an octogenarian theologian.

I'd also say that if a church doesn't do what is right, find another church.

Mark

Have you considered finding a new church home? I'll bet you there are churches in your area with a theological outlook that aligns with yours but with a culture that would not make you feel so out of place.

I am in a small rural community and already commute 100 miles/day to work, I'm unwilling to commute to a church too on the weekend, and there aren't many to choose from in my community. My church is compatible with my beliefs but it's just that the application is not always what it should be, same as any church or organization comprised of people. I just think that we need to be careful not to assume or judge one another when we see someone going through this type of situation. The blame should not lie in being divorced, the blame goes back to the person that is committing the sin. I was willing to meet my husband's emotional needs, but when you are married to a Narcissist Sociopath, it's not about meeting their needs so much as how much are you going to let them use you. They are not like other people. At any rate, we can't presume to know why others get divorced. A pastor has an obligation, if you ask me, to be supportive of one who has gone the extra mile and cannot continue in an intolerable situation. There should BE no additional stigma!

I think God hates divorce not because of the act itself, but of the tremendous damage it does to us, his loved ones.

As far as the church goes, I think it's a double edged sword. People have a hard time being ok with divorce because it feels like they are putting a lower value on marriage in the process. They don't want to encourage divorce if there is any chance otherwise. At the same point, they sometimes don't want to make someone miserable by pushing to try harder when divorce is the way to go. As well, the spouse who's listening is the one who's likely to get the advice that hurts the most it seems.

I participated in a DivorceCare class at my church, and there was always a tension between blaming the spouse that wasn't there, owning your own faults, relieveing guilt from divorce, and yet still promoting the sanctity of marriage. Many people seemed to deal with their guilt by throwing as much blame on thier spouse as possible, instead of dealing with their own guilt. Even the leaders of the class, who had had divorce, were very protective of keeping guilty away from themselves.

Somewhat related, but a good friend of my W recently told me that she thought my W would come around, come to her senses. That's the last thing I wanted to hear. I don't want to be relieved of my guilt. I don't want false hope, or to blame my spouse for what's happened. Judgement will get me no where.

As far as how to deal with it, there's a few things I think of:
- Many spouse treat their spouses much worse then I have, and yet are still married. I was just lucky to find a W who wouldn't put up with it. Those that judge are not better then me because they get to keep their title.

- In terms fo quantity of sin, the sin from one good man to one bad man is miniscual compared to perfection. God doesn't see me the way other men do.

- People don't understand, and people tend to belittle what they don't understand for thier own feeling of self-worth.

- There are a ton of divorce people out there, we are far from alone.

You know, if everyone of us as individuals, remembered and acted n the fact that we can't see inside another person's marriage (or divorce), we'd all be better off.

Also, I'm a little wary of "the church" because it's an organization, and I really am not a joiner. I like going to church, and I like people who go to my church. But, when it starts acting as a group, I have to wonder.

Find a church that understands the passionate love of Jesus, and lives grace, not judgment. You cannot change your church, and you cannot stay there if you are being treated like a leper. That is completely unlike Jesus and our Father. Go where you can find God's heart. There is no other answer. God has not left you and he does not condemn you...go where people who understand this are. Don't stay at a church that does not live grace. You might want to read this book that you can get on Amazon. It is out of print, but used copies are easy to come by:
"Remarriage and God's Renewing Grace" by Dwight H. Small.

I think I was one of the first people in years to stay at my church through my divorce. My wh left. I stayed there and was a bloody mess...let people see how devastated I was and let them witness the debacle it created in my life....and the healing that took place over a couple of years.

Since then, I have endured a number of traumas.

I've stayed there and talked about what is going on in my life.

Today, my church family has a greater understanding of what divorce is like for the survivors. A greater embrace for single parents.

I really felt led to stay there and suffer. I know that I was not fully understood at the time. Fortunately, there were some people who loved me through it. I was somewhat ostracized at points....but, today, I am considered an example of survival and strength.

I do not have my life totally together. I still have trials. I think I'm still somewhat angry. But, I'm there and they see me working, growing, surviving, and walking strong and proud. They see the way my children are growing.

Today, they love me and they understand more than they did 14 years ago when my life fell apart.

When

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Through

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Storm

Hold

Your

Head

Up

High

I was ashamed and embarrassed by my divorce. I felt weird taking my kids to church and Sunday school, knowing that we'd only be there every 1st, 3rd, and 5th Sunday of the month. I thought people would judge me and deem me inadequate for being unable to keep my wife.

I was wrong. That stigma was all in my head. At the worst, people were merely indifferent. That was okay because I knew that they had their own lives and issues. At their best, they were supportive and understanding.

It was the first time since I was a child that I felt vulnerable to the opinions of others. Now I look back on my worries and shake my head and chuckle at how insecure I was for about a year.

Seabird has a good point. Churches are composed of flawed people. Everyone there has some issues - even if they are in denial or even if they are hiding them. Most of them are probably too busy dealing with their own crises to actually be too distressed about your imperfections.

If you are active in the congregation and they get to know you, you will become melded into the group and important to them.

I think that, many times, we feel badly about ourselves and our failures so we FEEL like others are looking down on or ostracizing us.

However, if you attempt to fit in and to develop friendships and to serve and to find your niche and you don't see changes, then you may be in the wrong place. But, be sure that it is the wrong place and not your own 'heart condition' before you decide that these people look down on you.

I started this thread based on my experience...it is my experience and not yours, but many of you have had a similar experience. I have not experienced people looking down on me because of my heart condition. I do not feel important to my church, nor do I feel ostracized, but somewhere in between. I have had the remark made to me that I had a "choice" in the divorce...I think if you read my story you would see I didn't have a choice at all, and those making such remarks would have exhibited perhaps even less acceptance and forgiveness than I have my ex. I have tried to take the upper road in all of my dealings. I have learned and grown through all of this experience, as painful as it has been. The only "mistake" I feel I made was in marrying him to start with or perhaps not throwing in the towel even sooner...but I had wanted to make our marriage work and didn't want to give up on it without giving it every chance...that has cost me dearly.