The day after our last counseling session, I was scheduled for crown preparation, which might have included a root canal but (whew!) didn't. Yesterday, I had my permanent (gold) crown put and tonight W and I go toe-to-toe again in another session with the @sshole aka our counselor. Oh Boy. Give me root canal any day of the week.<P>Loved TNT's description of her 4-hour marathon session with H and counselor in her "I'm back" thread, as some of the things she described reminded me of W's and my sessions. Especially when the psychiatric labels like "paranoid" start flying. (Both of us caught this one last time.) I don't know. In a lot of ways I think these sessions may have done our marriage more harm than good.(We've been going about once every 3 weeks for the past year-and-a-half.) Not only does the @sshole side mostly with my W, but in her mind (I think) by doing this, he validates her (anti-me) viewpoint and just gives her permission and even encourages her to be MORE critical, sarcastic and withholding. And to continue to get away with her affair. I'm always depressed for about a week-and-a-half after one of these sessions, then it's time to start worrying about the next one. Our fighting has gotten less extreme and somewhat less frequent and W has become a bit (though not a whole lot) more tolerant of my foibles (which are numerous, I'll admit, mostly around me being something of an absent-minded slob who - now, thanks to this whole process - drinks on top of that). That's about it. No basic issues have been resolved, nothing has really been negotiated. Don't know why I keep going.<P>Anyway, we've talked a lot about the possibility of splitting since our last session and I think that will probably be the main topic tonight. I don't want to split and don't think W really does either though she always talks like it when we fight. Boy, am I looking forward to this. Can't wait till next month when I get to go back to the dentist! Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex

Hi, Wex: Boy, it seems like your emotions are going up and down like a yo-yo. Sorry to hear that you and the W are even discussing a separation, as it seemed like the two of you were doing much better.<P>Your counsellor sounds like a real dweeb. My H has no faith in the one we are going to, as when we have an argument, the first thing he tells me is that he is not going back to the quack. I must admit she has some real "off the wall" solutions. I kind of question her methods at times, but, we seem to be solving some of the issues, ie: trust, dishonesty, bad tempers, patience. Everything except the REAL issue, which is the infidelity.<P>She has told me when I am prepared to go "at it" with H, she will be there for us, but as of yet, I am not quite ready. Wex, I have let him know almost everything that I found, which he has lamely explained away, although even the counsellor called him up on the carpet for some of his answers, but he still refused to break.<P>I only have two cards left to play, but they are the most damaging, and I know if he doesn't admit to the affair then, I think our marriage will be over. I have to be sure when I confront him with these facts, that I am prepared for whatever happens.<P>On the surface, our marriage is better than it has been in a long time, and for whatever reason, I guess I thought that given time, I would "forget" what happened, but I still find myself dwelling/obsessing periodically on the affair. I know that if he admits it to me, it will set us back a year, but I am at the point that I can't heal much more, until I get the absolute truth, then start rebuilding from there.<P>As I said, our counsellor has some weird notions. She is into enneograms (sic?) and believes in positive/negative vibrations in the body. It never has bothered me, but, last week, my H had to go over to the window and do some "swaying" sessions. <P>I am cracking up as I write this to you. Here is this guy, who can't keep a beat if his life depended on it, trying to get a "swaying rhythm" going to get rid of all the "negative vibrations" from his body, and release them out the window! I looked at him last week (although it was hard to, without laughing out loud!) and the first thought that crossed my mind, was that he must REALLY love me, to make himself look so foolish, just to try to save our marriage. <P>Tomorrow I am on my own, as my H is hunting for the week. I'm not looking forward to it, as she always likes to delve into my childhood, and I detest going there! So, what I might suggest is, why not see if you can schedule the both of us for a root canal, and we can both play hookey from our sessions?<P>Good luck, and let us know what happened.<P>------------------<BR><BR>SUCCESS STORY<P>

hi wex, why are you continuing with the same ineffectual counselor? Earlier this yr I posted some of the weird things my counselor had said...and everytime I left there I felt like I had been beat up...and the marriage was moving toward closure becasue of what went on in counseling.<BR>It was a disaster!! Finally I just plain quit after a few of our wise people here advised me to do so. <BR>The counselor stated on more than one occassion that h and I have far to different values to communicate, and if we were to stay married, I would have to change my basic fundamental value system. Hello? Missed the basis of his problems completely. We did the solution oriented brief therapy for 4 sessions and things are just fine. Well, things are better than we expected. <BR>Wex, I have no idea why the coincidence between dentist and counselor.....except maybe on a subconscious level you planned the dates to coincide?? <BR>Back to serious business. I say dumpt the counselor! Call Harley?

Yeah, I agree with you CL. If the counselor does not even think you should keep your value system - something is really really wrong. I am having trouble believing that I have to learn to live with someone with a lesser value system. She calls it acceptance, and if truly that is what is wrong, okay - I'll try and learn. But personally, I think that is a bunch of crap. What the heck, at this point, what do I have to lose. <P>My trust isn't in the counselor but in God. He alone is my ultimate authority. I'm not here to please man but God. <P>I'd much rather have all my teeth pulled and have false teeth, than to have to go through this nightmare, that is for sure.<P>

Everyone - Amazing that we all seem to have had somewhat similar negative experiences with marriage counselors.<P>TNT - Really agree with you that trying to force you to change your basic value system is not the way for your counselor to go. I've gotten this routine from ours too, when my W goes down her list of reasons of what's wrong with me, and our counselor asks me, well did you do this, did you do that other thing she's complaining about? If I say "yes," which is often true and I'm trying to be honest, boy I really get the "then you've got to change" bit. And this only makes my W try and find MORE things wrong with me, so she can take them to counselor and he can validate her point of view. Of course, when the situation's reversed, and I complain about her (her sexual and emotional withholding, for example, which is definitely real) she just denies that she does it. When he asks her, "Do you do this?" she just says no, and so I get it from the counselor again, and no changes get made on her end. Oh, she loves this, I can tell you. Well, now I've taken to saying "no" to her accusations and it seems to work a hell of a lot better! I'm glad I finally got this system figured out!<P>cl - You know, I wonder the same thing myself every time I go to one of these sessions. And the answer is, I don't know why I don't quit. In part, I think, because my W seems to get something our of these sessions, even if it's just to validate her point of view (which is all that I can see they do). It's one of too many sacrifices I've been making for her, I think. She did wonder a while back if the sessions were doing us any good and mentioned the possibility of quitting. Should have taken her up on it. Guess I'm just a masochist at heart. (Oh, I love these psychiatric labels!) You say <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The counselor stated on more than one occassion that h and I have far to different values to communicate<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh we definitely get this too, a lot!<P>why me - Yeah, I'm feeling fairly crazy these days mainly because of this stuff. I know that our counseling sessions add to this, because I think our counselor is partly crazy himself. Definitely off-the-wall like yours. In fact, I'd say he's been bounced off one too many walls in his career. To give you and example, he does impersonations of us. Like when I tell him about a situation that led to a fight, he'll start reenacting it by talking to my W like he was me, sometimes even stands up, walks around and gestures like he's me getting into a fight with my W! Well, it's his TAKE on me, which isn't even close, in fact is so far off it would be funny if it didn't make me so angry. And he mostly does me not her, and makes me end up looking like a complete shmuck, I have to say. I mean, this really BURNS me! On the other hand, I think my W enjoys it just because it makes me look like a shmuck. This is partly what I mean when I say that he's not fair and sides with her. <P>

Hey, Wex...a thought just occurred to me!<P>Did you ever think about checking out what kind of car your counselor drives?????<P>Wouldn't it be weird if <B>HE</B> was the OM?<P>Wouldn't you have a helluva lawsuit if he was??

sweetpea.....what are you drinking tonight? I want some too!! And wex will need some of that when he gets back all beat up.<BR>(((hugs wex)))<BR>

Oh, drat, cl! That Diet Coke has gotten to my lil' ol' Sweetpea brain!!! Here, have a (Diet)Coke and a smile! <P>Oh, Wex, I have a whole liter of Diet Coke in my fridge. There's plenty for you, too!<BR> <P>Let's all get drunk on Diet Coke! <BR>(((((Wex)))))

Well, I had the same thought Sweetpea did before I read her post!! There might be something to it.

sweetpea - It wouldn't surprise me! The guy actually calls her "dear" sometimes in our sessions and clearly has something of a thing for her. (She once talked him out of charging us for a session we missed.) Her personal therapist does too, to judge from what she's told me about THEIR sessions. I also know from my phone taps that he's advising her to quit the marriage, I think so HE can have a shot at her. And he and our couples counselor are in cahoots! Because our CC recommended her PT to her. I'm not exaggerating when I rave about how attractive my W is. I do know that other men find her very attractive too. When we go out and she's all glammed up, she gets looks like you wouldn't believe! (Hey, she's a fox! And I like the attention she gets - but only on my arm - out in public.) But I really don't think either of these two guys is the OM. (Have actually thought about bringing lawsuits against both of them anyway though, because of the awful advice they've given my W.) I think that I know who the OM really is, I just haven't been able prove it.<P>Janie, sweetpea - Oh, yeah. I can really get a buzz on with that Coke! (Provided we add a strong shot of Gentleman Johnny! You two are teasing me, aren't you!!?? It does work for me when women give me hugs, offer me a drink and then tease me, wicked as they usually are while doing this!) R & B,<P>--Wex<P>