Looks like you should have plenty of time to pack up all his clothes and have them sitting on the driveway with a new deadbolt on the door, when he gets home.

Anything less than that is telling him you are going to be his mistress for the rest of your life. I feel sorry for you, if you can't stand up to him.

I've been lying low, reading this thread...I have to agree with cat, it's time for showdown...her or you and definitely full exposure. This man has some thinking to do, no more fence-riding. I forgot, do you have kids together? If so, time to call them too.

LeapFroggy, I just finished reading through your whole thread again.

A couple of things confused me:

On 04/17/09 you said:


On 05/02/09 you said:


On 05/06/09 you said:


If it's not TMI, how is it that you say your WH is not physically capable of having an PA, yet later you post that you have SF just about every night?

You know what?

Your husband is having a full-blown physical affair and it's been going on for some time. I think the sooner you realize and admit this, the better off you'll be.

Asking a WH to complete the MB questionnaires while he's involved in an active affair is pointless. He's a wayward. You can't educate him, bully him, persuade him or convince him to do anything.

He'll just keep getting sneakier and sneakier. You've been getting some really good advice but I think the one thing that is missing is you admitting that he's involved in a PA.

OW is his partner in crime. I tried "reasoning" with the OW too. She was so nice... while she stabbed me in the back.

I think you need to start over with the Plans with the mindset that you're dealing with a WH, not your H.

(((LeapFroggy))) - I know it hurts and makes you angry. We've been there, but if you listen well and follow the MB plans, you've got a great chance to recover your marriage-- starting with massive exposure.

She mentioned at some point that he was taking something...okay, that helped the ED, but it could help it with Marcella as well. I caught that too. But the point isn't whether it's a PA or an EA, it's happening.

Oh okay, I missed that. Yeah, I guess they're both bad, but to me a PA is much more devastating... knowing that they bonded in that way and shared physically what was previously reserved for man and wife, yanno?

Yes, and they try to tell you they didn't engage in PA clear up until the time you catch them in it. With a marriage this long, I'd like to see her be able to recover it, he needs some sense knocked into his head!

I have exposed it, Turtle, to all except her H, whom I'm unable to contact.

He is being very transparent now about when he takes her somewhere. The next time he says that he made a promise to himself to help her, and never breaks a promise, I will remind him that:
He promised to love, honor and cherish me, and to forsake all others. As you said, he's broken all of those promises. He does not love me anymore, dishonors me when he's with her (friends or not!), he sure doesn't cherish me when he's thinking of her all the time and he hasn't forsaken all others. I'm certain he's never thought of it that way. Sometimes I have to plant the seed of thought and wait for it to sprout.

He did tell me that he would take her to her drug test today and then the rest of the day was for him, she was on her own. YAY! I hope he's getting tired of being her errand boy.

He did mention that our anniversary (together 25 years, married 24) is coming up, and marked it on the calendar. He's never forgotten it before, and the fact that he brought it up is a little cheering.

I can't force him to stop seeing her and a ultimatum would backfire on me. Right now, I see two options:
Let it run it's course, because it will end sometime; or tell him he's free to do whatever he wants (except move out). Often it's necessary to let something go before you can have it back. Maybe I need to present a front of not being concerned any longer, maybe I'm losing interest...

What do you guys think?

I think you should go talk to her and tell her to step back or else life is going to be miserable (be very vague), and I think YOU should start finding some other things to do that show YOU can go out and get your strokes from other people too. Not men, but groups, like a sports club or something.

Be creative and find ways to have her life keep having little irritants as long as she's around him. Give her a reason to leave him alone.

Can you tell I'm stubborn?

Besides having her utilities turned off, do you have any other suggestions, Cat? Or anybody?

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is to find a group of male friends - big burly kinds - to come with you. They don't have to say a word; just stand there while you talk to her.

Then, say 'You've failed my first test. You ignored my request, told my H what I said, and tried to get him to choose you over me. It didn't work. Now I'm going to start dealing with you for real. You want to get in the way of my marriage? Go ahead and try. I will be watching you. I will know everywhere you go, everything you do. And if you don't leave my husband alone, I will make it my mission to ensure that you get picked up for every piece of trash you litter with, every stop sign you run, and every infraction of your parole you break. I will make it so miserable for you to be in my H's life that you will end up begging him to leave you alone.

I'm giving you this one final chance. Find a new sucker and leave my H alone, or prepare to have one hell of a miserable life. I will make it my life's goal to take you down. And if I have to have my friends help me, so be it. This is your last chance.'

Think about it. A hundred years ago, people didn't worry about all this PC crap we have nowadays, didn't worry about hurting people's feelings. If someone pissed them off they said so. If someone tried to steal their husband, well heaven help them!

Time to start protecting your assets. If he gets mad, too bad. You have every right to say to him 'too bad; I gave you the chance to honor me and this marriage; you declined, so now it's my job.'

Oh Cat, I do love how you think!

I'll also ask her if she wants me to send her back to jail again. That implies that I had something to do with it, but admits nothing. Some flyers telling about the A for the neighbors to read would also be nice.

I was feeling very sad today, but you've cheered me up immensely!

Yeah, and 100 years ago I could probably have shot her and gotten away with it. A crime of passion...

I love Cat. Make the biatch PAY! Flyers for the neighbors, what an AWESOME idea. I'd also include a phone number so that anyone who can help you contact her H can call your tip line LOL! And, I'd chart where barfly flies. Seriously, addresses and typical homing patterns, and provide it to the P.O. I wonder if the P.O. could use evidence obtained from a PI to put her away. Might be worth it HAHAHA >:)

WH is out looking for an apartment. All we are doing now is hurting each other more. I don't want him to go, but I feel it's probably the best thing to do right now. Maybe he'll finally realize how much he needs me.

He cannot forget the friendship I had EIGHTEEN years ago. I have told him and told him that it was only friends with a common interest, and he will not accept that. He also will not see the similiarity between that and his relationship with Slutlee.

He keeps asking me why I did not do something about my emotional abandonment of him when it started. He will not believe that I had no clue how seriously I was hurting him. I didn't. He says as long as I was happy, then he was willing to do whatever it took, even at the cost of sacrificing his own happiness. I am enraged and hurt beyond belief that he did not think enough of me or our marriage to try and stop it. When I did try to talk to him, he only said that everything was fine. Is that chicken poop or what?

As for Whorella, she WILL get hers. I need to lay low on that for a couple of weeks. I don't want to be accused of harassment or stalking. WH said last night that she has lots of problems. I said "she only thinks she has lots of problems." She will reap the whirlwind of my wrath.

I understand that in AA, one is not supposed to associate with alcoholics or start new relationships. Can anyone verify this? My WH is certainly turning into an alcoholic, although he doesn't drink around her. And this is definitely a new relationship. I would SO like to call her PO again!

As for their EA, it will end soon. He has been doing less for her, and told her he did have a life of his own. I cannot bear the pain of dealing directly with this EA any longer, so I'm going to ignore it the best I can. She WILL pay!

He is looking for an apartment so that he can continue and escalate his affair unencumbered.

Quit focusing on OW and revenge. Focus instead on Plan A.
What are you doing to meet his ENs?
What LBs are you committing?

Telling the woman to leave your H alone is not revenge; it is trying to stop the EA. If it IS just an EA, there's a fair chance she can scare the idiot off.

But I agree. He's just moving out so he can see her in peace. You just had to go and punish him for wanting 2 women.

Not likely. He'll just start living with her more and more until they're an official couple.

He cannot forget the friendship - blame you for his affair
why I did not do something about my emotional abandonment of him - blame you for his affair
He says as long as I was happy, then he was willing to do whatever it took - blame you for his affair (you had to go and complain)
Result - what he THINKS will be a clear conscience for schtooping her.

Can you not get more people to put pressure on them before he moves?

You said two days ago:
I can't force him to stop seeing her and a ultimatum would backfire on me. Right now, I see two options:
Let it run it's course, because it will end sometime; or tell him he's free to do whatever he wants (except move out). Often it's necessary to let something go before you can have it back. Maybe I need to present a front of not being concerned any longer, maybe I'm losing interest...

Oh, I can see how my comment might have been misunderstood. Definitely be honest about wanting them separated! My comment about focusing on revenge was due to statements like

As for Whorella, she WILL get hers.
I don't want to be accused of harassment or stalking.
She will reap the whirlwind of my wrath.
She WILL pay!

That's a lot of energy going where it does no good.
Focus instead on working Harley's plans. You've been wishy-washy about them until now. You still have a chance but you need to get on board and fast.

I still don't think it's a PA, Turtle. When I posted earlier about SF, I should have added it's on my part only. He's still flying at half mast.

For his ENs, Conversation and Attention: I'm in the same room when he's home, watching TV or talking. I don't read a book anymore. RC - I've started back in a sport we both enjoyed and he seems fairly happy to have me there. He also been helping me regain my previous skill. We also play pool in the basement several nights a week. With the attitude he's had, I haven't asked him to take the ENQ or LBQ yet. I think the worst LB I have is independent behavior, and I've been careful about that. I ask his opinion about d*mn near everything.

I've been doing Plan A, the best I can, without overwhelming him. He says he still feels crowded and smothered by me sometimes.

Cat, the OW is married and won't be living with him, no way, no how. The way he talks about her often is disparaging and degrading. I just need to find a way to let her know about those remarks. I also think he's starting to get tired of her persistent neediness.

None of the people I've exposed to seem to care about the A. There certainly hasn't been any pressure from that area. All of her friends were druggies and alkies, and they disappeared when she got busted.

He's back home now, hasn't been able to find an apartment he can afford. He's going to look more later. I don't think he'll find anything available before the end of this month. College kids will be leaving then.

I'm going to ask him what behaviors I could change that would induce him to stay here. If he wants to run amuck with her, so be it. He'll get tired of her soon, and I don't have the emotional energy to fight him about her. I'll just make my plans for revenge and quietly carry them out. That will give me a lot of emotional satisfaction.

I also think that Whorella needs to join a Beer of the Month club. TeHe!

She's married? What happens when you talk to her husband?

Time to ramp up the Plan A! Try to think of what he liked when you were dating, and give him that person back.

Her husband is a long distance trucker, and I haven't been able to catch up with him.

Does this terrible sadness and despair ever get any better? I just want it to end...

Ok, listen up. The ONE thing that would have the biggest effect on her leaving your H alone - TELLING HER HUSBAND - and you haven't done it?! WTH?!

For God's sake, camp out in front of her house if you have to, to catch him at home! Find the name of his company and call him! Do you want your H back or not?!!!!