My marriage counselor gave us an assignment this week and I'm really struggling with it. He asked us to read Mark 8:34-36 (scripture quoted below) and consider what we need to die to...what is God calling us to?

Well...my (ironically) selfish inclination is to assume that he is talking more to my FWH than to me, since the passage is clearly speaking about being more selfless and more like Christ, but I realize when I look objectively about our marriage post D day that I am considerably MORE selfish than before. I guess I feel like before he started the A, I was spinning my wheels trying to please him at the cost of my own happiness while he was clearly thinking of no one but himself. So much so he literally didn't even think about what discovering the A would do to me because he was so sure he'd never be caught. So, if I'm not selfish and I don't look out for myself, who will? I guess my selfishness is self preservation in a way. I am protecting myself from more hurt...or at least trying.

What does "denying myself" post D Day look like? Thanks for any insight you can offer!

(New International Version)

34Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35For whoever wants to save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?

I am sorry but I feel that verse does not apply to your marriage and its recovery at this time. I do not get what this counselor is trying to cram down your throat. Some kind of guilt or something?

First the counselor tells you to FORGIVE THE OTHER WOMAN. Now this.

I would get a new counselor.

Sometimes Christian counselors can drip with verses/holy ideas/etc. But that is not always good. Practical, common sense and honesty are pretty important in your recovery too. Has the counselor ever been thru an affair?

Others will have a different opinion of this. For you.

1. Jesus was not married
2. He was speaking to the crowd.
3. See if you can ask the counselor how it applies to YOU and to your Recovery.

No counselor should make you GUESS at riddles and meanings. Let them explain what that has to do with your cheater husband and you becoming (thankfully) more protective.

And being more protective of your marriage is NOT selfish. You are mislabling it here. It is unselfish of you to take on the burdon of being more protective of your marriage. I is unselfish of you to even remain married to your selfish lying husband.

You are bending over backwards staying married and recovering the marriage to him after what he did. So please dont let any church make you feel selfish, guilty, or wrong. Guilt is not from God.

Hi Bubbles! Thanks for writing in. I did end up getting a new counselor. This one has been GREAT! I really appreicate the things he has to say. He has a lot of experience helping couples recover from adultry, and while he has not personally been through it, his training comes from a couple who has. So, I don't think he is trying to cram anything down my throat - but thanks for looking out for me! The me prior to D Day wasn't looking out for myself one ioda so I know why you would worry.

As far as thinking the verse doesn't apply to me...well, I believe that the Bible is relevant all of the time for everyone. I can't pick and choose the parts I like simply because I've been hurt. Yes, it does feel like guilt strings are being pulled to some degree, but I have no doubt that that is not his intent. I think he simply wants me to look up instead of at my H. And like I said, maybe he was talking more to H than me.

Last night, it occured to me that one way I've been dying to myself is simply in staying. My gut reaction was to run for the hills and end the marriage, but I don't think that is what God wanted/wants for me. I think he wants me to trust that he can redeem ANYTHING...that he has plans to PROSPER ME...that he can raise the dead, so why not a lifeless marriage? And I have seen that that is true, even though there are days I have to remind myself that my choice is to have faith.

I will definitely be asking him what he was getting at with the assignment. In the meantime, I hope to discover new ways to draw near to the Lord and turn to him instead of away from him in selfishness or whatever. I just want to do it without lining up for fire. Make sense?

I like you! But I do not see how you are turning away from God in selfishness or anything else. How do you think you are "turning away from the Lord"?

What is "lining up for fire"?

I dont know but I think maybe its like. BS is carrying a burdon by working on recovering theyre M. BS is following god in doing this. Its a lot of work to forgive a WS and work on recovery. How could you lose soul by doing everything you can to save and protect you M.

It would be so much easier to Divorce them and take them for everything they got and moving on to find someone we think is better without giving our M a shot. FOrgiving them and trusting in god is much harder. IMHO

I agree with what Still said. Wondering, you are holding the large burdon here. By recovery of the marriage. What you need to watch out for is giving too much again. It is not Christlike to just simply let your H or other people walk all over you and for you to constantly sacrifice and keep giving and giving. This is not what God wants for us. As shown by HIS example.

God gave us a brain. And HE expects us to USE IT!

Someone else will be available on Monday to help you too Wonderin, i am sure. It is the weekend, only die hards like me are on here. LOL

Right B4U,

Wondering, I was the same way to my WH as you were, I wasnt taking care of myself, My husband wasnt taking care of me, he was worring about himself only. SO you definitly need to protect yourself, not doing this did not help your M before. It may very will have contributed to the problems in it. By protecting yourself you will be protecting your marriage.

Even THe Bible says you can divorce if your spouse is unfaithful. So obviously to be christlike is not letting people walk all over you.

Yep. I think the "denying myself" is to not follow one's right or instinct to feel angered from the betrayal to the point that you cut yourself off from Him. Instead carry those hurts and burdens and follow Christ. If you turn away from Him because you are in pain and protect yourself instead of keeping an open heart, you will die spiritually.

Wonderin, you have starved yourself for your husband. You have given him this and that. You have done what he wanted. Then he had that affair and lied to you about it.

Are you still giving way too much? Still starving yourself and going to the gym every day to try and please him?

As I remember you weight 120 at 5 foot 5. He wants you to weigh 100 or 110 and be fit from weight lifting at the gym. Like the gym woman he is attracted to. Then his OW was a skinny bag of bones was she not? And that is what he liked.

Is he still into bony chicks? Is he happy with your body now or are you constantly starving yourself and working out to please him>?

(Can you tell that i still am mad at your husband for what he did to you?)

:twobyfour: :twobyfour: :twobyfour:

Here is what i think of your husband, Wonderin!!!!

I like you too . I guess what I mean about turning away from God in selfishness is that it is really easy for me to focus on the splinter in H's eye rather than the plank in my own eye as the verse goes. Especially in the case of our marital recovery. It is easy for me to adopt a self righteous attitude of "you put us here, you owe me." And then use it as an excuse to expect him to do whatever I want whenever I want rather than POJA and avoid LB. I know that that attitude is toxic and isn't of Christ. He knows betrayal like no other...he knows my hurt because he's lived it, but he never acted like anyone needed to make it up to him...he just loves us and desires closeness with us no matter what we've done in our past. I can never be Jesus. I am fallen. But I shouldn't make a consious choice to sit in an air of entitlement just because I've been hurt. Does that make sense?

Still, sounds like you and I have come to the same conclusion. It really is dying to yourself to stay post DDay. It is putting my trust in God and following his will even when it doesn't make sense to me, and putting what is best for my kids ahead of what feels best for me. How amazing to watch God work and take what seems so wrong and turn it into something beautiful.

Hmm, the notion of not protecting myself prior to the A not helping our M and possibly contributing to them is a good one. I'm going to think on this for a bit and get back to you. I get 2 days alone the end of this week, which I plan to use for relaxation, self care, prayer and journaling. This will be a good one to think about

No, Bubbles, I'm not giving too much. Like I said in the prior post, I may not be giving enough. I tend to feel entitled - that he should be giving anything and everything to me as I see fit.

I do still work out...AS is a big need for my H wheather I like it or not, and we are both responsible for meeting eachother's ENs. I'm not over the top though. And H has completely stopped harassing me about it. He claims to be 100% happy with the way I am. I have a hard time believing that after what we went through, but that is what he claims every time it comes up.

You don't remember it quite right, lol. I was 140 Lbs, 5' 7" before the A, but thanks to the infidelity diet, I'm 130 now. So...H conincidentaly got his wish, lol. The OW was actually no thinner than me, ironically...and even more ironic is the fact that she is really plain. Some have said downright ugly. It really wasn't about looks. It was about opportunity and the way she made him feel like the best thing since sliced bread.

Please keep in mind..... H's adultery is not a splinter in his eye. It's a PLANK and he took it out of his own eye and proceeded to hit you upside the head with it.

Your right in the belief that you cannot recover your M from a position of selfishness. But having healthy boundaries is NOT selfish. God clearly tells us who, when and how we are to associate with others - (boundary). God clearly tells us what we must do for salvation - (boundary). God has boundaries for us, and expects us to obey them and incorporate them in our relationships as well!


I'm guessing you have forgiven your H but also feel you should trust him now or you really haven't forgiven him!

Forgiveness is very healing and needs extended.

Trust would be....... lets just say it would not be wise to extend without SERIOUS boundaries. (extraordinary precautions)

I hope you are keeping these two actions of forgiveness and trust seperated.

Thanks for writing in! I appreciate your ideas and am curious what you think about my question below.



No arguments here. Clearly any BS is just in noticing the plank of adultery in their spouses eye. I am not referring to the adultery when I quote that verse though. I am referring to the healing journey; what he is or isn't doing compared to what I think he should be or should not be doing, etc. I'm of the opinion that any decisions he makes because I force him to make them are not only not authentic, but also not going to be lasting or lead to any real positive changes in our care for one another. And I am also of the opinion that since I ultimately have NO control over his choices, my efforts are best spent working to change myself for the better. Since I’ve been thrown into a recovery situation, it is easy to focus on all the changes my FWH should be making without looking much at all at the seemingly minor changes I need to be making. (Log in my own eye.) The truth is that I’m a fallen, imperfect person who would be better off working on my weaknesses than focusing on my Hs. That’s his job.

Now you make some really good points about boundaries and extraordinary precautions, and I agree with you that EPs and B need to be set in place and do not equal forgiveness. Here is my confusion: how does a couple establish what the EPs are going to be, especially if you disagree?

In the beginning, I had a list of bottom lines and must do's/have's etc. H was willing to do whatever I wanted at the time, but things are starting to change. And, I'm not sure it is healthy for me to go on adding to the list and expecting my H to do whatever I want whenever I want it. Especially in light of the fact that I don't feel forced changes have any lasting value. At some point, he has to WANT to protect our M as much as I want him to. He has to see the need and value in doing so without my riding his tail, so to speak. We now disagree about the threat of using facebook, where the lines should be with female coworkers (H is a pilot), who is safe and unsafe, and the disagreements leave me thinking protecting our M isn’t a real priority for H. If I tell him I’m afraid and instead of asking: how can I help you feel safe? He says: these are the reasons you shouldn’t worry about that and my life shouldn’t have to change, etc. then does he really care? That is where I start focusing on him to the exclusion of myself.


I love this! Each point is great. Now I need to translate that to my life. I guess I had invisioned that post Dday my H’s heart would remain the “do whatever I need to do” to protect her, to make her feel safe, to help her through the immense hurt, etc. That all of those would be a clear priority because he would know how hard choosing to stay and work this through really is on a person. What is true in our situation is that he was that way for a while, but mostly he is irritated, frustrated and angry when I share a hurt or fear. He says this is a coping mech. for the shame and pain he feels when he has to see what his choice has done. Regardless, it is adding insult to injury and leaves me feeling unprioritized, uncared for and plain scared about what is next for us. So, lately we’ve been talking about revisiting our original EPs with the help of our MC and adding or revising as needed because I am so stuck in fear right now.