My first post. After 10 years of asking, my WS finally admitted to A on Jan 11. I started asking during a separation 10 years ago that she asked for and got total denial. A lasted about 2 years. Using same counselor now that we were using then. Counselor is someone I admire even though we have disagreed on occasion. One is discouraging me from spying in order to expose the A. A started at work. WS found another job after A ended. She admits to receiving an occasional email or phone call. WS agreed to and sent email requesting no contact. OM replied "He would honor out of respect for both of us".

WS is ashamed and embarassed and has been truthful when asked questions. Answers are short and lacking and cause her great emotional stress.

WS says only one person knew about A; her girlfriend of 20 years. I upset WS when I told her I was upset that her friend enabled her A and that I do not trust her friend that values their friendship more than what is best for WS. WS says this friend encouraged her to stop A and disclose it to me. WS does not understand my distrust of her friend.

OM was single during A, but next woman he dated he married. Been 9 years. Do I tell his wife what type of man she married?

These things may seem petty. Recovery going as expected. The roller coaster of emotions for both of us. Progress is being made. I believe WS loves me and I know she is seeking to heal the wounds of the past.

Actually, my first post ever on a forum. I will get it figured out.

RC,

I know how you feel saying it is your first time ever to post on a board. This place was my first and is th eonly place i have ever posted.

I am so sorry to hear about your situation.

Are you saying from your post that the A ended 8 years ago, but there is still sporadic contact; or are you suspicious that they might still be seeing each other?

This place is pretty slow on weekends so check in often and for sure tomorrow.

SWW

RC,

Even though the affair was 8 years ago, the pain you are feeling is fresh and new.

The fact is, she has been lying to you for 8 years, and that probably increases the pain and the distrust even more, and makes you feel like you have lived a lie and sham of a marriage since then.

One of the things I did after my husband's most recent affair was to ask him about every woman in our lives since 1975. Why? Because it was his intent to NEVER tell me about his affair, which means that if he could lie to me for the rest of our lives, then that means he could have lied to me over the course of our lives, too.

So I worried, what was true about "us"?

Did I know the truth of my life?

I panicked. I asked him about Sally, Susie, Billy Jo, Bobby Sue, Jeannie, Amanda, and any other woman you could think of. The checker at the 7-11. The woman whose name I couldn't remember who answered the phones at his one job back then...

He was pummelled with questions, and his answers were also short.

He was very reluctant to talk about the affair, and everything I learned (at first) had to be dragged out of him, like pulling teeth. If I asked a question, he answered one or two words, and only the exact question - never offered anything more.

So I had to word my questions so broadly that he could not weasel out of them:

"At any time during the past 50 years, including the time we were married, separated, considering divorce, and/or any other time that you have been alive and had knowledge of my very existence as a human being on this planet..."

Now, this made him mad, but it drove home my point about his weaseling, and he stopped trying to do it. We had to get him past the idea that the truth of my life would not KILL me, but I just might kill him in the process of getting to the truth!

There is a letter on the website, called "Joseph's Letter". I printed it off and gave it to my H. Once he read it, he understood that I was not crazy for wanting to know, and that I was trying to work towards putting my life into perspective.

Find it here - it will help you talk to her, and help her understand that YOU were not with her when all of this was happening, and that in order to move ahead, you have to know and understand what happened.

You do have a right to know, to have your questions answered.

Print out the letter.

SB

The A started 12 years ago. It was ending during our separation 10 years ago. I have not been able to get any details of how it ended other than "we just drifted apart". There had been sporadic contact until she sent email requesting it stop. And no, I am confident it was over a long time ago. Just not sure how and when.

Schoolbus, you are right. In spite of denials, I knew in my heart A had taken place. Indeed it feels fresh and real as if it had just ended. I have told WS that to me it feels as if it has just ended. I will search for Josheph's letter.

Does OM's current wife need to know?

Is my mistrust in WS's girlfriend justified?

Yes OMW needs to know this way she'll be able ensure NC from her end.

Mistrust justified for it's new to you now and contact continued.

I bet dollars to doughnuts that this OM was the reason WW separated from you. Any kids? Time for a DNA paternity test.

Yes contact the OM's wife. Maybe the sexual part of the affair ended 10 years ago but with the continued contact....that represents a continued emotional affair during their marriage. She needs to montitor him on her side!!!

WW returned from trip with D-32 to soccer tournament. While she was gone, I ran into her girlfriend confident. Very awkward. WW and I talked about it when she got back. Informed me that neither one of them understood how I could be upset that girlfriend confident kept her secret. WW's girlfriend is someone we have always hung around with. I explained the points:


1. How I feel girlfriend confident enabled WW's adultery instead of finding a Godly approach to letting her face the consequences of her actions.
2. The method of enabling (keep it a secret from everyone at all expense) also made girlfriend confident complicit in the deception. This means I would have to rebuild trust in confident. I don’t think this is possible.
3. It seems confident's choice was maintain a friendship instead of doing what is best for her friend even if it meant hurting her friend and their relationship.
4. The triangle relationship between WW, confident and myself. WW has a history of being honest with confident, but not me and they are both willing to lie about it. This is not healthy while we rebuild our relationship.
5. Confident was only person that knew about the A. She was not in the fog. She did not approve of A but did nothing but express her disapproval.

I understand you not wanting the friend around. Some people chose never to expose. BF made her decision now she reaps what she has sown. Calmly tell WW that BF remaining quite made her an enabler.

Obviously lots of posts have been lost. Basic story is above. Here is where I am today. Probably because the A ended about 10 years ago, my FWW has not acted in the typical sense most do on the boards. She is contrite, ashamed, and very sorry for what she did. We started counseling with Steve a few months ago. We also are finishing a program with Dynamic Marriage that uses LB and HNHN. Harley is familiar with the course and people involved and approves.

My FWW problem is openness and honesty. She had two hand written pages to explain what happened during A. I know that there is more.

I know my FWW loves me as I love her. Unfortunately, I am teetering on the verge of deciding that in spite of our love, I do not want a wife that I had to share with another man. I have found times when I still look at her with disgust for the disrespect she has shown me, our marriage, our kids, and our extended family.

This is different than most here. Most would die to have their spouse at the same place. I am not sure I understand either.

The last few weeks I have had huge anger boiling inside of me. It is possible that it relates to bumping into the OM a few weeks ago. Any thoughts.

rc2009, I can relate to your feelings 100%. When I found out about my H's affair, I did not want him. I was disgusted and repulsed to be married to such a weasel. I threw him out initially.

That being said, you can learn to love her again. You can recover your marriage if she will be radically honest with you. If she withholds, you will never be able to trust her again. And you will sense it if she withholds details. Tell her it is in all of your best interest to get it out now and just move forward. Once you have the full truth, it should never be brought up again.

Many BS' go through a phase of rage and fury around 9-12 months. It is when the shock wears off and the anger sets in. Many BS's ask themselves why they have settled for such a loser and are mad at themselves for doing so.

BUT, that is just a phase of recovery that quickly goes away. It was the climax for me, and after that I thought about it less and less.

You may have a harder road than me in that you have 10 years of lies on top of the adultery. My suggestion would be to NOT make any decisions about the future of your marriage now. Wait until the fury subsides and then make a decision.

Sorry you are hurting, friend.

I think it would be wise to make a phone appointment with one of the marriage builder coaches to work out a plan to work on the issues you have in front of you.

They will help you create a plan of action that will offer the best chance of recovery of the marriage.

Read the book Surviving An Affair and read it again and again (each time you will get something from it that didn't click before).

You are very normal. Infidelity dissolves the vast majority of relationships touched by it due to the very feelings you are having. It takes a really heroic effort and tons of motivation as well as a certain type of individuals(s) to get past this. These folks are in no way superior to those that cannot get over this. They are just different. You may or may not be one of them. Working the programs you are may tell you which.

RC2009,

I'm in a similar spot, but I let it go for 20 years, my wifes EA is supposedly only that. I am going through the angles now on how to contact the OM, and what to say, to get his side of the story. Even with all that time if it was PA there is a chance for D. I think finding PA means that my loyalty since then will be converted to futility.

Seeing OM about 2 years ago did trigger my current state, so yes that is a big nudge.

NJ

rc2009,

At the risk of rolling over some very painful rocks, I would think that the forced separation from her and by definition the reduced role you had with your children due to A would be something I would have a hard time getting over.

Not that there aren't a few other things that wouldn't be hard to get over. I would suggest that you are in fact going through the reevaluation that most BS's do, at about 6 months or so. Perhaps longer as Mel suggests. I would also suggest that you sit down and list what really angers you and saddens you about all of this. Notice I said anger/saddens? That is because anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as pain, fear, frustration, etc.

Examine what is driving this and then with the help of a counselor address it and make plans for your W to help you through some of this. You need openness and honesty because you "fear" that she might do this again. You worry about her friend because she sat and watched as your family was torn apart by the separation, which means it did not bother her that your children lost a portion of you in their lives.

You are focussed on your W's BF, because your W does not see that you view them as a team that conspired to allow this to happen.

Sit down, evaluate, and then talk with Steve H about these things. Perhaps he can offer you a path through this. I understand that your W being "contrite, ashamed and very sorry" does not show you any action on her part, they are just words right?

I hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

Mel this is the tough part. Other than a 2 page hand written note that Steve directed her to write about the 2 year affair, I have had ask questions and then insist on answers. Harley has ask me if I know what happened during the affair. My answer is always the same. About 70-75%. After the lies of 10 years, it is hard to know if it truly is all she remembers or only what she wants to tell me. I realize the danger of wanting more information than exists. I am not sure where that point is.

This hits pretty close to home. I do work with the homeless. There are many mitigating factors for their plight, but a common thread is usually a separation from family due rejection or abandament. In the last three years I have suffered this rejection twice. Obviously my FWW on DDay Jan 11 and also my dad in the last year of his life.(long story) It was due to my dad's rejection that I found my work with the homeless. Rejection from loved ones has a very detrimental effect on anyone's emotional state. The disrepect and selfishness have left me without my normal self confidence and very untrusting.

Tonight I will give FWW a chance for O&H. The last few days have been pretty tense over some responses that avoided answering the questions.

After a couple of sessions of giving my FWW an opportunity to be O&H, I don't feel that we are any closer to that goal. Each session brings additional details to the surface. She had told me they set around watching TV. It dawned on me that when we watch TV we usually are in the bean bag snuggling. When I ask her, she replied she didn't realize that it was a big deal that he had his arm around her. A few nights ago, she shared that in the beginning they used condoms then stopped. I asked the next night if he volunteered this option or she furnished them and how it was decided to stop using them. She was stunned that I wanted additional information. I reminded her she has shared information about his past sexual history and to stop using them was a decision to pass the risk to me.

I think my need for details are related to my need for her to be O&H, not in the details themselves. She has never volunteered any information.

I made an appointment with Steve for Monday. In our last session 4 weeks ago, he recommended we stop talking about the A. That it was time to rebuild and recover. I am having a hard time with this request. I still believe she is using her discretion to decide what to tell me. Her standard reason is she does not like sharing those things she knows will hurt them. I am just looking for some honesty.

It doesn't look like you'll get it from her.

Here's an idea. Ask her to take a poly. Details usually pour out if she sees you're going to go through with it.

And go through with it anyway.

If she didn't want to hurt you, she shouldn't have had the A. She owes it to you to be totally transparent as a way of repairing the damage she has done. I agree that there comes a time when your questions will have been completely answered and you will need to move forward in your healing, but it sounds like that time has not come yet. Until you work past those questions and put them behind you I believe you will continue have difficulty moving forward.