Ok, below is the latest response from WH about an email I sent him through the IM. The IM removed a lot of the original email, but the following is his responses to a couple of my statements. I won't be responding to him as I have worked to go darker and darker.
I want to respond to it here, just because I need to vent to some of this. Also, I would love feedback: is this still 'fog' on any level or is this what and how people talk about the end of relationships. I feel like he constantly has me tagged as the one not in reality and it gets so confusing.
So here it is (my original email statements are in red; his in blue):

From Mr. WH:

Unfortunately I don't see how else to respond but point by point. Sorry for the formality-this is not how I want to communicate-via email with an intermediary neither of us has ever met (sorry IM).
It upsets me when you talk to me that way on the phone....
BS, the last thing I want to feel or express with you is anger and frustration. This is my recollection of how the apprx 5 minute call went: When I called last night you answered and I asked to speak with the kids, as I always do since you have asked to have no direct contact with me. DD13 came on the phone and was being goofy for a moment talking about 'bunny ranches', she was very cute. I asked her if she got the $5 I gave DS12 to give her for her track banquet-she said she did. I then asked if she had any thoughts on what to get her grandma for her birthday. She said 'wait a minute' and I then heard you say in the background "Why doesn't he ask OW" and something about why I was even asking. Then she got back on the phone and said 'why don't you ask OW'. I said I was asking her because it's her grandma's birthday. She then said sharply "I don't know, she's your mom", essentially reflecting the attitude and words you were saying the background. At that point I became very frustrated. I then told DD13 that I was only asking because my mom is her grandma and she had recently spent a weekend with her grandma and might have some ideas, but since she didn't I told her I would ask DS12 and for her to put him on the phone. You then got on the phone, which was not what I expected (or for that matter what you have requested-direct contact-at this time). I was angry with you and frustrated and I didn't want to talk with you. I told you why I was asking DD13 her opinion, that I thought it was inappropriate and not ok for you to tell her to say what she did and I interrupted your response and asked to speak to Henry (you said he wasn't there) and then DD4 (you said she wasn't there). I said fine that I would call back and talk with them later (I did twice between 8:30 and 8:45 and no one answered) and hung up abruptly on you. I did not want to speak with you beyond what I said and you definitely heard me speak angrily. But I did not berate you, I didn't call you names, I didn't accuse you of anything I didn't hear with my own ears. I was also angry because I felt like this is another example of the kids being involved inappropriately-similar to how you asked DS12 to lie to me. I asked DS12 not to tell dad what we were buying at Ikea because its none of WH's business. Of, course, DS12 did and I got annoyed. Not a big deal, but I guess another example to you, WH of how terribly I'm handling this situation......I am also upset because you expressed concern for my health, yet you were rude to me on the phone. I don't like it when you disrespect me this way. This is one of the reasons I cannot have direct contact with you.
I do have a lot of concern for your health and it bothers me tremendously that you have serious health issues going on and yet all I know is you had to have emergency (I presume it was emergency) outpatient surgery to address Wednesday and needed me to have the kids overnight. You're someone I love and care deeply about and despite everything else that's happened-the mistake I made, the choice I made about not being with you anymore-I still care about you and want you to be well-much more than you realize. [color:#6633FF]What you will never know until you have been betrayed as I have, is that every time you continue your affair, you continue to cause the same pain that you say you regret. Anyone in your life who is telling you differently doesn't understand the trauma that comes from affairs. Any other expressions of concern and care, then ring hollow. You stab me in the heart and then "reach out" with concern -- crazy.
If my rudeness on the phone felt disrespectful, I'm truly sorry. But frankly, it feels like being rude, angry, frustrated or disrespectful is only something you're allowed to feel. Please don't be surprised if I get angry, frustrated or rude when such things happen and I feel as though you're encouraging them to only see things as 'OW or them'. This is clearly your perspective because I have in fact chosen not to be with you and, at the same time, I've chosen to be with Erica. But the choice is not the same with the children. In fact it's not the same at all except I now have another home and I've done everything I can to make it plain that I am always going to be there Dad, even if I don't live in the same house with you, and that I'm not going anywhere. They are and will remain my children, my priority. Unfortunately, however, it's fairly clear that all they hear from you, directly or indirectly, is "he's chosen her over us". The central choice I've made is not to be with you, so whether I was with OW or not I wouldn't return to you or move back in. It saddens me beyond belief that the perspective they're fed day in and day out is that this is all driven by my being with OW. That somehow if I wasn't with OW this would all be different. What you fail to understand is that last year you had a choice -- to share with me what you were feeling or not. You choose not to and instead put your time into a second relationship with OW. So, yes, where we are is DIRECTLY related to OW, as well as your own selfish choice to not share with me what you were struggling with, but to spend your time and love on her. But it wouldn't-I don't expect you to accept that-but that is something (I think quite obviously) I need to work on with the kids. Not to have them 'get' or agree with my choice, but at the very least to understand and know without a doubt how much I love and care for them, no matter who I'm with or if I have another home for them. Yet, you clearly want them to believe otherwise and what also saddens me is you apparently aren't seeing the long-term damage that's doing to my relationship with them (on top of the obvious damage my choices have caused, I take responsibility for and am trying my hardest to work on).[/color] The long-term damage to your relationship is directly related to your moral failure, your affair and your lack of committment. It has nothing to do with how I cope with the current situation. It is not mine to fix.I don't recall ever hearing you treat a woman that way and it hurts me when you do this. I cannot help feeling the way I feel about your choice to hurt our family this way.
The implication of this statement is deeply offensive and implies that I'm behaving like an abuser because I was frustrated and rude with you in reaction to the conversation and what you were saying. [color:#6633FF]There are few things more abusive that cheating on your spouse. Let's review the fall-out and see if it fits with abusive relationships: I have nighmares, I do not trust, I cry every day, I have been suicidal; I take multiple medications to just deal with the symptoms; I cannot see you or the pain is renewed full-force; I am triggered daily by reminders of your deciet. So yes, for me it is abuse. From your perspective, it is not because although you lied and cheated, the affair is a positivie becasue it shook you from your complacency and has brought you love. How could that be abusive? You cannot see any of this because you only see how it affects you. If it negatively affects you, you respond, it not, you down-play it. Further, your actions are abusive and whether that is who you were, are or have become, I don't know but it is you now. Again, apparently I have no right to get frustrated or angry and you're forever the victim... This feels like either a blatant mischaracterization of me or you really have lost touch with who I was, am and continue to be.[/color]
The kids realize that you have picked OW over them, this is a conclusion that they came to on their own.... I simply hope you are spending some time in counseling looking at why you cannot commit where you are needed and not how to get the kids to "get" why you did what you did. They don't care.
The kids obviously have a lot of sympathy for you, as they should. I also think this means they're more prone to feeling the way you do. It may be that this is their 'conclusion', but it's one you clearly reinforce and one which doesn't relfect the fact that I'm picking not to be with you and regardless of who else I choose to be with, I will never pick anyone 'over them'. I have no interest or desire to get them to see things 'my way' because ultimately I think the consequence is that could hurtful toward you and harm their relationship with you. I've been very cautious about what I say to them in this regard because I respect the fact that you're they're the mom and they need you. I wish you could find the same respect for me at some point and help our children learn forgiveness, even if you're unable. I can't imagine how pushing me out of their lives, even if unintentionally, by reinforcing this view is helpful to them. In fact I think it's harming them since I so clearly want to be a major part of their lives and will forever see them as my priority. They have a loving parent who wants nothing more than to continue to be this. Yet they're being told, or at least aren't being dissuaded from believing, that I'm 'choosing' an adult partner over them. Even if they see it this way without prompting from you, it's not the reality-I love them, I want to see them much more than I see them now and be much more involved in their daily lives again, as soon as possible. At the same time I'm choosing to be with a person I love and want to be with, who despite her mistakes and like me, is also a good and loving person. [color:#6633FF]Good and loving people don't do what you two have done. Selfish people with serious character flaws do what you have done. She is "good and loving" to you, so that is what you see. She has hurt your children, your mother and your wife in ways that you can't even begin to see, because to you, she is comfort. For us she only represents the most painful experience in our lives. You seem to want to be the only one who can define what is happening. That is in itself hurful and disrectful. Our marriage was not "over" when you started your affair; no effort was made to make it healthier or stronger on your part. There is something wrong with you and you choose to deal with it with an affair; then you left. You have not made the effort you think you have to be a good and loving parent. I can't tell you how to do that, because it is hard enough for me to parent in all this pain. I'm not going to be untruthful about or deny my feelings, as I've said to DD13. But I also have no intention of trying to force the kids to accept my relationship with OW, or to force them to see OW differently. Over time I only hope that they'll gradually begin to see things differently, based on behavior and choices going forward. Will Ow suddenly get some character? Will she no longer be a home-wrecking wh*re because you are divorced?I have no illusion that this will be anything but a very long road and there will always be pain and some level of resentment. This is so insulting. Essentially what you are saying is that you are more than willing to continue inflicting pain and resentment to get what you want. Pain that you don't even know how sharp it is. Yes, you feel pain, but not to the level that I do -- there is no comparison. So you are willing to move forward and accept that there is pain, even though its like a twisted ankle for you and a broken leg for me. I have spent many hours in counseling talking about these issues, my relationship with the kids, with you, what it means to be a loving parent, and the commitment and choices I'm making. I hope you're doing the same with your counselor. F.U. -- what I'm doing with my counselor is trying to figure out how do you even live again after everything you thought you knew about the world is ripped away from you. As for the kids, again, I believe they need to see a neutral counselor as soon as possible, one that can also include me given that your counselor can't (and shouldn't). I just don't believe seeing two counselors is helpful or that they'd agree. I'm asking again that you ask your counselor for her advise regarding this and let me know. I've also discussed this with my lawyer and would like to discuss more as we talk through things with our attorneys.

I want to go back to what you originally requested-you asked that we only communicate issues related to parenting or finances through the IM. I agreed and still agree. However, your email doesn't suggest you want to do this. As you know I really want to be able to talk about these things in a healthy, healing way with you-but I believe it's much better to do so with a counselor, when and if you're ever ready. I don't think exchanges like this are helpful. I think they feel cold and impersonal-it's just the nature of it-and it's not a dialogue. You don't hear my feelings and I don't hear yours. I think we need to have a dialogue and heal together-as I thought we agreed before-but not this way. I responded 'point-by-point' (which frankly just feels stupid) because I felt like I had to respond in kind. I don't want to continue this. Please let me know if and when you're ready to see a counselor or just meet face to face and please don't use the IM in this way, per what you originally asked. [/color]

Thats why you should NEVER have seen those words.

You're in Plan B. You should be in darkness. You should be focused on yourself. You should be posting about what YOU are doing to make YOUR life great. Your right; I have a lot of wonderful things going on. But it feels like none of if compares when the pain rears its head and I feel like I'm at D-day all over again.
In Plan B, there should not be speculation or consideration of what WH is up to.
This is trickier when there are kids involved, but I'm trying.Parental Alienation is a term used to describe the actions of one parent (usually the custodial parent) to sabatage the relationship between the child and other parent. To put ideas and thoughts into the childs head that destroy their love and respect for the other parent. To make it difficult for the other parent to have a positive relationship with the child.
So, if I stick with the facts, that dad is having an affair and it hurts mom, is that Parental Alienation?' We are encouraged here to do that -- the phone call example is not reflective of my normal behavior, I was snarky.
BF -- your husband knows what he's doing is wrong. He's not ready to admit it. You don't have to teach him...and you don't have to have your daughter teach him -- because now unfortunately he is going to believe that anything she says is coming from you.

I am bitter; and hurt and overwhelmed and angry and so unsure what choice to make one moment to the next.
This is a mess and I am a mess. I get two steps ahead and feel strong and human and then I fall apart. I still cannot believe that these words are from my husband, my best friend and someone who I can never have in my life again...

I guess I have trouble believing that -- if he knows his behavior is wrong, why does he continue.?

I need to reinforce to my IM that I am not to get any information (or her to give any) beyond what I have stated in letter:
an issue with the children
Finances
or if he ends the A and desires to work on M.

I still doubt that he would ever say to me, "I made a mistake." He really has never said that in this whole process,

That was my first one -- now I have a MB veteran.

(post by you in December)
His email to you was FULL of that. Did you see it?