This is not strictly a reply to anyone but following the posts from Piojitos this morning I have read and re-read my posts from the beginning of this thread.

This is a difficult post to write as I don't want to make it about me but it seems impossible to write without doing so.

I can see how his opinion was formed. There is a lot of "me" in it. This was not done intentionally and I never set out to come across as someone using MB for my own needs but I can see how it has been construed.

I have found using my thread very therapeutic at times but I have lost sight that this site isn't really for waywards to feel "a bit better" but how to use and adapt the teachings and advice for the betterment of the BS & M.

If I have alienated anyone, please accept my apologies. There are so many good people on this board that can offer such good advice and insight that I am loathe to think that they are not interested in sharing their experiences with me.

As a couple that are both committed to R, I would welcome any constructive comments and debate on the questions, responses, issues that have been raised by our situation.

Unless prompted I will refrain from posting anymore about "how I feel etc" but I would really welcome any words of wisdom that we can use to help restore any aspect of our M and ensure that my role in this process is a healthy and positive one.

Post how you feel freely. Just don't make excuses. OK?

Therapy is in how you can repair the damage you've done to your spouse's heart.

Look above, I shared my experiences and honestly the only way I've seen these guys abandon someone is when they don't listen to what they are being told to do. Granted, think about what they are saying as you are not a puppet.

I feel you are missing the point of Piojitos and my posts.

You can type whatever you are thinking, doing, feeling, acting out on. The people who know best on MB (Me not being one yet.) are going to remark, correct, push, prode, shove, kick, spit, and pee-pee smack you any time you step off the track towards Former Wayward Spouse and a happy marriage for your spouse.

The truth... I'm not writing here for you. I'm writing here for your spouse because I have no symphathy right now for you. I don't know your spouse but if she is fighting as I've been fighting I know exactly what stake her heart has invested in this marriage...everything.

Everything is what you crushed. Just remember that. You've created an earthquake that fractured the world, now you have the monumental task of repairing your lovers heart because as Mark has said to me, the greatest task you have is your wife. The Betrayed Spouse is the one who is the toughest thing to fix. You want the marriage because...unfortunately you "selfishly" want it right now as you realize it was better than the affair.

You have to convince and create a new self for your wife that proves to her that you are now "selfless".

Hi, BB.

I’ve been following Sere's thread. She writes so well and is very illustrative in portraying the BS side. I pop in here every now and then to read your words too.

It's been over a year since I last saw my FOM. Almost 11 months since the A ended. We saw each other’s names on copied work emails for about a month after the A so complete NC about 10 months. D-day over 6 months ago when I confessed to my H.

Like you, I tend to waffle among sadness, shame, and anger. Sadness that I didn't trust my H and go to him instead of FOM when I was hurting and sadness for the hurt I've caused so many. Shame for deceiving, lying, and betraying H and others and shame for sinfully giving my body and my heart to another. And anger -- so much anger -- that I allowed this to happen. Anger at my selfishness – for jeopardizing my family and my H’s well-being for my own pathetic fix, ESPECIALLY when I knew better.

So I understand very much what you're feeling.

It needs to be about helping our BSs heal. It needs to be about focusing on them. But I also believe that us FWSs have to work on our own healing.

I'm probably going to get a roundhouse to the jaw for saying this because I don't think some MBers believe FWSs have any rights to be worried about themselves. But worrying about ourselves isn't always to the detriment of our BS. I understand your concerns for how you are feeling and why you are seeking help in trying to understand and work through this because if you and your spouse are trying to recover your M, you must deal with your own struggles too. You absolutely must make healing your W your priority, but you cannot neglect healing yourself if your M is going to stand any chance at recovery.

If you're like me, you perform a balancing act of wanting to share your emotions but not at your spouse's expense. I can’t offer advice on how to go about determining exactly what that balance is other then talking with your W. Ask her how much she wants to know about what you’re feeling and when. If it’s hard for her (it is for my H), then take your emotions elsewhere because you must not bottle them up.

Maybe MB isn’t the right place to explore your feelings and how you should deal with them because of the sensitivity of the audience you’re speaking too. But don’t ignore those feelings or be ashamed of admitting to yourself that you have them. These feelings remind you to do everything necessary so that you do not deceive again. They’re trying to tell you that you need to work every day to make your spouse feel safe and to keep your EPs in place. They're encouraging you to empathize with and comfort your spouse. They're forcing you to dig deep to understand why you cheated and what you did. Stifling them may do more harm then good.

On another matter, I don't agree with Monc's words:

I’ve been told very much the opposite on my thread, in books, by my pastor, by my IC, by family, by friends, and by my H. While I have not forgiven myself (and don’t know how /if I ever will), many have told me that I must in order to help myself and thus my M recover. True forgiveness is not about “self-justification” or “vindication”.

Because you’re not religious I won’t take that angle, but instead will quote from a book I’ve worked through called How Can I Forgive You: The Courage to Forgive, the Freedom Not To by Janis Abrahms Spring, Ph.D. In a section on self-forgiveness she writes: “Self-forgiveness doesn’t relieve you of responsibility for your words or actions, but it may release you from self-contempt and from a ‘crippling sense of badness’ that makes you believe, ‘I can’t do better.’ With Self-Forgiveness, you bring a gentle compassion to your understanding of who you are and why you acted the way you did, and reclaim what you most value in yourself. I would add that Self-Forgiveness is not just about feeling acquitted or absolved – it is certainly not just about feeling better. Principally, it is about trying to earn redemption from those you damaged and working to make them feel better.”

You can also read Dr. H’s feelings on forgiveness by clicking here and there are many threads under GQ II on forgiveness.

So after all of this rambling, my point of posting here is to recommend two things:

1. If you don't have an IC or somewhere or someone with whom you can be totally honest about your personal emotional struggles, I strongly recommend that you seek a resource for that.

2. Work on doing all that is necessary to eventually forgive yourself and that may help you with your internal and affecting, emotional rollercoaster.

Good luck to you and my best wishes for you and serendipitous.

On forgiveness go with L4's point.

Monc,
When billybassett has been in recovery a bit longer he will see the value of your venting on his thread and will not feel so beaten up by it. It's good for Former Waywards to see the raw emotions of a newly betrayed spouse (I'm just sorry you find yourself here at MB under these circumstances). I'm glad you've popped in here, you might check out his wifes thread.

BTW, his wife posts under the user name serendipitous.

L4, that was a good post.

Hi BB,

Grieving the "unrecoverable" (I love the word you used there) is an important step in your marital recovery. It means that you are now face-to-face with the irrepairable damage that has been done to your marriage.

You are right. Some things ARE unrecoverable. A purity and innocence has been lost in your marriage, and no, sadly, you don't get to have that back.

I wouldn't want a FWH who did not comprehend that some things are "unrecoverable".

And it is essential to your marriage recovery that you do reach a point of forgiving yourself.

My opinion of you is immaterial. You BW's opinion is the only one that matters. In improving her opinion of you, you need to improve your opinion of your self.

If you grieve for anything, grieve for bad decisions but accept their consequences. I struggle with the concept of forgiving yourself. I'm not sure it is even possible. What you have to work for is BW's forgiveness and simply be thankful if you receive it. If we were capable of forgiving ourselves, I don't think religion would exist.

to add: I saw your BW's thread was near this one so I read it after I posted the above but a poster there told her pretty much what I was thinking when I made this post. You should seriously reconsider your ideas on going to church because I don't think you will ever find forgiveness from within. All you can do for yourself is find a coping mechanism that works but it will never be true forgiveness.

L4, thank you for your post. It was nice to hear from you.

You make a lot of interesting and thought provoking points for which I am grateful.

On Sere's thread there is a post to us both about foregiveness from a long term poster on MB for whom I have the utmost respect. Part of it relates to the health of our M being improved when, if possible, self-foregiveness occurs.

Like you I can't, at this stage, envisage this happening in the short to medium term but I can't rule it from ever happening if it either directly or indirectly has a positive effect on my DW and M.

I totally agree with you that my previous posts were inappropriately directed to the wrong audience. This won't happen again.

With regards to individual personal emotional struggles, is it selfish to use my DW as the person I talk openly and honestly with? Don't get me wrong it's not that I don't do that now anyway but, in view of what I've done, is it inappropriate to use her in this respect when the whole process should be focused upon her. Should I be using a third party?

Finally, we have the book that you mention by Janis Abrahams Spring. After I've finished LB I will move onto it. Thank you for the recommendation.

I really do appreciate you taking the time to post to me.

This is in response to my DW's post (Serendipitous) of 1.02am this morning. I have been advised to stick to my own thread to post so if anyone would like to see what happened to us over the weekend please refer to her thread.

I have given deep thought to my actions on Sunday and my selfishness, how I failed with my EP and failed to use POC.

Reading her post of 1:02 has really hit it home for me. I have just spoken with her and her only motive for posting is to get constructive advice that will help me stop beating myself up about what I did. That's all.

When I read it I just saw nothing but selfishness reek from my actions. What I saw was ME being the bad person, ME hating what I had done, ME hating that everyone thinks I'm a bad person and ME not wanting to be a bad person because of what I had done.

Other posters have accused me of making our situation about ME and how wrong and destructive that is. I now fully agree with their opinions. ME ME ME, these actions clearly demonstrate my problem and how I am stiffling the recovery of our M.

It gets worse. She commented that I make her feel as though SHE is making me feel like a bad person - that one comment is truly disgusting and makes me feel wholeheartedly ashamed of myself. She never makes me feel bad about myself. She has been nothing other than totally supportive of me, and I'm ashamed that I twisted my thoughts about myself and tried to blame her for them.

The truth of the matter is this, I am a bad person for what I did, a very bad person. I made terrible awful choices, had sloppy boundaries and acted in the worst most selfish way possible.

These actions have profound consequences that I have to stand up to and own 100% if I am to save my M. I have to stop yearning to stop feeling bad about myself, control the shame I feel and channel it completely to into my DW, giving her as much care and protection as I possibly can. This will give her what she needs now but more importantly for the future and that I am totally committed to her and our M.

I don't want to get carried away with myself ( pretty sure the majority of posters here won't let me) but I do feel like I've had a "light-bulb moment". I felt sick when I read Sere's post and my selfishness just hit me straight between the eyes.